Critique my rig...

[pablo7uk]

Hi all

Looking for some honest constructive criticism of my rig. I've been using this on clay bottom day ticket commercials with some success but perhaps not as much as I would expect on a well stocked fishery.

Size 8 wide gape korda hook, 25lb stiff fluorocarbon right through including the hair. 2.5oz lead

Thanks

[elmoputney]

Personally I would say it's too short/close to the lead is it a pop up or bottom bait rig,? 

The hook angle is slightly too much for me too, I always prefer a simple D rig and bait screw combo with fluorocarbon but that is personal preference 

My reasons for wanting a longer hooklink would be that if you have a bigger fish taking the bait the lead would be more likely to pull the rig out of its mouth before it would have tipped back up and had a chance to suck in the bait, 

It's all personal at the end of the day and what works for one doesn't work for all but that is my opinion hope it helps

 

[greekskii]

not sure what you are trying to achieve with that rig tbh. As elmo says its way too close to the lead and the hook angle is too severe. It is also a running rig which doesnt suit the short hooklength thing you are likely looking to achieve. I have seen people do well straight off the lead with 2/3 inch pop ups using inline or COG leads and a running kit set up does not act in any way the same. 

How are you expecting the rig to act underwater? 

[yonny]

9 hours ago, elmoputney said:

is it a pop up or bottom bait rig,?

That's key here.

11 hours ago, pablo7uk said:

Looking for some honest constructive criticism of my rig.

If you really want to use a stiff rig you'll need to use a bigger hook imo. I'd also ditch the kicker. Both of these changes intended to open the gape which at the moment is far too small imo.

I'd also lengthen the rig - this will mean it has greater flexibility to be taken but retain that stiff springy quality once in the fish's mouth.

[pablo7uk]

Wow this is brilliant thanks so much for the responses I feel like I'm learning so much from this.

It's a bottom bait rig. 

It does release the lead to be a running rig but there is a small lip to hold in place and give some 'bolt rig effect'.

So tips so far;

- Longer overall length to allow bait pick up

- less aggressive angle on the shrink tube to allow wide gape hook to work it's magic

- larger hook size 

- use a lead clip to encourage self hooking principle

[framey]

15 hours ago, pablo7uk said:

 

- use a lead clip to encourage self hooking principle

Or you can use an in line lead 

[yonny]

20 minutes ago, framey said:

Or you can use an in line lead 

Nah.... with a stiff rig the in-line will nose dive into anything but the hardest gravel which will kick the rig up rendering it useless. Stiff rigs and in-lines are not the one imo buddy.

[kevtaylor]

IMO ditch the fox bead and ring contraption and go with a hybrid lead clip or something different.

I've personally used them, they do not offer hardly any bolt effect before they pull apart and become running.  If they come apart on the cast you have a tangle right there.

Speaking from experience they cost me fish, when bites where hard to come by.

 

Also once used a few times they soften and come apart even easier - no good for bolt effect carping IMO

Edited September 11, 2019 by kevtaylor

[framey]

24 minutes ago, yonny said:

Nah.... with a stiff rig the in-line will nose dive into anything but the hardest gravel which will kick the rig up rendering it useless. Stiff rigs and in-lines are not the one imo buddy.

Didn’t see the stiff rig bit sorry..

[pablo7uk]

Great thanks for the feedback again. I definitely think I'll be making some changes and moving to a bog standard lead clip.

My thoughts with the very short hook link was to encourage the carp feeling the lead and bolting sooner but perhaps foolishly I had never considered that a certain length will be required simply for the carp to pick up and get the bait deep in the mouth haha. I will certainly be changing to a longer hook link going forward

[salokcinnodrog]

Personally, running rigs I do not think rig length makes much difference, but they must be truly running, and fished with a slack line, with no 'bolt effect'. If you are using it for bolt effect the rig needs to be longer.

 

The angle on the kicker is too severe, a simple line aligner, straight shrink tubing is enough.

Places a short rig on bolt, will work are when you are fishing over massive amounts of particles/groundbait, and you need to provoke a run.

 

Personally, I hate lead clips, I always use a run ring. I fish it slack line as a true running lead, or with a tight line, and with a tight line as a bolt rig as per Kevin Maddocks, (I think page 108) Carp Fever diagram.

 

 

[kevtaylor]

23 hours ago, pablo7uk said:

Great thanks for the feedback again. I definitely think I'll be making some changes and moving to a bog standard lead clip.

My thoughts with the very short hook link was to encourage the carp feeling the lead and bolting sooner but perhaps foolishly I had never considered that a certain length will be required simply for the carp to pick up and get the bait deep in the mouth haha. I will certainly be changing to a longer hook link going forward

Don't be too quick to dismiss your short rig idea, I witnessed a proper haul from a tricky water with the guy using 2 inch rigs - un-coated braid.

2 x 40's, several 30's and a few 20's later there was no doubt that they were not too short to catch fish - maybe it was the edge over everyone else doing very similar things.

 

Keep thinking outside the box fella- if you do the same as everyone expect to catch the same.  We have a habit of copying what the others are doing even if they are doing badly or just ticking over with the odd fish. 👍

[harpz_31]

this is the rig im using atm.

a size 4 hook and a withypool aligner 12 inch soft coated braid with about 10mm striped from the back of the aligner to act as a hinge point and a piece of putty to turn the hook.

use it with a balanced 15mm boilie.

very aggressive kick off the hook that nails them every time (a bit like yours but with a little more distance between the hook point and the bottom of the aligner).

2 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

 

Keep thinking outside the box fella- if you do the same as everyone expect to catch the same.  We have a habit of copying what the others are doing even if they are doing badly or just ticking over with the odd fish. 👍

probably the best bit of advice to give you an edge.

your not just trying to out smart the fish your trying to out smart every other angler on the lake as well.

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by harpz_31

[pablo7uk]

Thanks for the advice, I think perhaps some of the principles I have applied are ok and work but the combination is what is the problem. For example on a lead clip and with braid instead of stiff fluorocarbon this could maybe be good.

I'm gonna make up a couple or new ones tonight I'm thinking 7/8inch length and I have some size 6 curved shank mugga hooks. Maybe a couple on braid and a couple on stiff fluorocarbon.

Should I use a short length of shrink tube with a curved shank hook or is it not necessary due to the hook shape? I don't want to over-do the hook angle like on my rig above.

[kevtaylor]

Line aligner not necessary for a curve shank, but not a bad idea, try it.

With any aligner watch you're not closing up the gape too much.

Before you decide on rig length or too much - what are you fishing over and what's the baiting application?

[chillfactor]

I've been saying the same about line aligner's Kev ... very easy to close the gape up . With most of my fishing abroad these days , I've taken to coated braid straight through ( no stripped section ) no kicker needed   just the hair it self is stripped . Absolutely nailed them on a size 2 last time out .  

[pablo7uk]

13 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

Line aligner not necessary for a curve shank, but not a bad idea, try it.

With any aligner watch you're not closing up the gape too much.

Before you decide on rig length or too much - what are you fishing over and what's the baiting application?

Just a clay bottom day ticket commercial nowhere too difficult. Will bait up with a few handfuls of loose fed particles and then a mesh PVA of pellets on the hook too.

[kevtaylor]

15 minutes ago, pablo7uk said:

Just a clay bottom day ticket commercial nowhere too difficult. Will bait up with a few handfuls of loose fed particles and then a mesh PVA of pellets on the hook too.

With a hard bottom and small item feeding I'd go with a short rig, whereas if in weed or soft silt I'd go with a lot longer.

I guess I'm reminding you to let the spot and baiting decide the rig approach not what everyone else is using.

You have to think they are slowly hoovering up small bits of food passing over your spot so a standard 8 - 12 inch rig will get spat nearly every time, whereas a 3 inch will nail them much more often.

A spread of boilies would point towards a longer rig.

Mix it up on your rods, experiment and learn what works for you. 👍

Edited September 13, 2019 by kevtaylor

[salokcinnodrog]

15 hours ago, chillfactor said:

I've been saying the same about line aligner's Kev ... very easy to close the gape up . With most of my fishing abroad these days , I've taken to coated braid straight through ( no stripped section ) no kicker needed   just the hair it self is stripped . Absolutely nailed them on a size 2 last time out .  

 

17 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

Line aligner not necessary for a curve shank, but not a bad idea, try it.

With any aligner watch you're not closing up the gape too much.

Before you decide on rig length or too much - what are you fishing over and what's the baiting application?

I Think homemade, done yourself line aligners close the gape less than tackle company manufactured ones which seem to have a greater kink or curve built in, especially if you use silicon tubing rather than shrink tube.

[kevtaylor]

20 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

I Think homemade, done yourself line aligners close the gape less than tackle company manufactured ones which seem to have a greater kink or curve built in

Yeah those pre bought things look too long for what I'm doing, so I'd cut them down to suit.

[elmoputney]

I learnt a lesson last night used a simple knotless knot rig with a snowman absolutely nailed it,I think the main thing I've learnt is using the hook with the right bend in the shank/eye for what you are trying to achieve,if you want to get an angle on your hook use an inturned eye and the silicone will do the rest I didn't use any though I didn't see the need it was stiff enough with semi stiff coated braid 

The lesson I learnt was don't fish pop ups over particle, my guess was the foul hooked common must have been feeding so hard it went straight into the rig would've probably caught it properly in a bottom bait or snowman 

[pablo7uk]

Made this one ready for tomorrow

3oz lead on a lead clip, size 6 curved shank hook, longer hook link length made with fox rigidity stiff rig.

[framey]

Personal preference 

I like a supple hair

thats an old packet of muggas lol

[pablo7uk]

8 minutes ago, framey said:

Personal preference 

I like a supple hair

thats an old packet of muggas lol

Very old! I haven't fished over the last 8 years and I think I had them a few years just sat in my tackle box even back then!

I've just made an alternative to see what works best... Full braid version

[muftyboy]

On 12/09/2019 at 21:29, chillfactor said:

I've been saying the same about line aligner's Kev ... very easy to close the gape up . With most of my fishing abroad these days , I've taken to coated braid straight through ( no stripped section ) no kicker needed   just the hair it self is stripped . Absolutely nailed them on a size 2 last time out .  

Exactly how I've been fishing for the last couple of years and upto a few weeks back have hardly lost a fish in that time.