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Im at the secret lake , seen 2 very large carp breach in the last 20 mins but well out of the area i can get too.

That is understandable Yonnie but it is one of those things you have to experience to understand. I was shown around a local farm because I made similar comments. In my mind, the ducks love the force feeding. In the old days the farmers wife used to use a gadget with an archimedes screw, sit the duck on her lap and force feed it with maize. Nowadays, the feeding tubes are all automatic but come feeding time they are queing at the gate to be let in and fed. When I was there, one duck got left behind at feeding time and it created merry hell to be let in and fed. Of course I am only talking about local, traditional methods. I am sure there are are industrial sized units which are less kind - like any form of animal husbandry these days. Like everything on the internet, it is hard to separate fact from fiction.

Good post! However, how anyone could argue that the production of fois gras can be anything other than bad for ducks is beyond me (I'm talking about cruelty as well as health wise).

Yonny said “No arguments, this is a healthy debate lads” I totally agree with that sentiment. Surely this is what forums are about – sharing ideas and experience. But he also said “I think we're all agreed that unprepared particles are a no-no all the same.” And I can’t agree with that statement. I will say that where there is doubt, err on the side of caution and soak and boil but I would also like to see some evidence of raw maize doing damage to a carp. A farm near me supplies foie gras using a system known as “gavage”. Ducks are force fed maize to make foie gras. To the best of my knowledge no ducks have ever exploded and died due to the maize swelling up. Nevertheless you will read heaps of stuff on the internet with people, who have no actual experience of what it is really like, telling everyone how bad it is for ducks. So much so that foie gras is now banned from restaurants in California. OK ducks and carp are different creatures but I hope you get my point. JH92 said “I left maize soaking for about 2 weeks and it was the best looking maize I’ve seen. about 3 times the size and would squish in between your fingers, I boiled it and completely ruined the batch, it blown basically all the kernels so no good for a rig. I do wonder if you soak it for long enough, do you really need to boil it? “ I have never observed maize expand to three times its size but if that makes it mushy isn’t that the point. All you can be doing is adding water to the maize. So if it expand 3 times then two thirds of it is water and nowhere near as harmful as a raw grain three times its size. There seems to be a mis-conception that a swollen maize is just as harmful as a hard raw maize. But in my opinion the best idea posted on this thread was by Oscsha who said “Maybe we're doing it wrong by using boilies that meet a carps needs , as they may eat less due to their nutritional need being fulfilled , this leading to the fish being on the feed less. Playing devil’s advocate a little” If the carp have to keep eating and re-eating raw maize to get any benefit from it, it keeps them feeding longer and makes them more catchable. That is a VERY interesting and original idea. The big question is – is it safe?

I would've said mintoes but getting them on the coke might be an expensive business

I was just waiting for someone to say that 😂🤣😂

That can be a bonus in itself, use unprepared maize to fill the ducks and swans up, it can be put on the bank rather than in the lake. Because ducks and swans do have stomachs, it does swell up, once they are full they just go mooch and 'sleep it off'. I'm not sure on the digestion of maize, i'm sure it is mostly broken down by the pharyngeal teeth before swallowing. However, I am sure it is more attractive and more nutritional once it has been soaked and boiled. If it is sprouted then I think it is at its best. I'm sure a number of fisheries use raw wheat grain to supplement fish diets. With nuts, grains and legumes that are not broken into pieces, only the outside is giving nutrients. The rest is contained inside the unbroken pieces. I think you will find that is why despite peanuts being rich in Vitamin E that vitamin is unable to be used. Even in our acid rich stomachs, you will excrete peanuts, tiger nuts, sweetcorn or unchewed grains. In sweetcorn you excrete it almost exactly as it goes in. The carp's alimentary canal can only take nutrients from ingestion to excretion, (sounds obvious), and they will eat until the nutritional need is fulfilled, not, being as they don't have one, their stomach is full, which we do as humans.

Please make sure you soak and boil the maize before use . Used raw can result in killing fish due to the swelling of the grain occurring in the fish . I like fishing simple and use maize on some waters hair rigged and using a float ,beats sitting behind alarms .

No mate. Dont wanna give it away. Ill post pics of the fish i catch in the cradle but thats it.

me too

Done.

Done 👍

I left maize soaking for about 2 weeks and it was the best looking maize I’ve seen.. about 3 times the size and would squish in between your fingers, I boiled it and completely ruined the batch, it blown basically all the kernels so no good for a rig. I do wonder if you soak it for long enough, do you really need to boil it?

This could be a good idea I think feeding the ducks off isn't a bad idea tbh would certainly help anyway If we used baking powder maybe they may explode 🤔😁

I'm not convinced it's that simple Nick. Imo atmospheric conditions play a huge part in feeding behaviour too.

Maybe we're doing it wrong by using boilies that meet a carps needs , as they may eat less due to their nutritional need being fulfilled , this leading to the fish being on the feed less. Playing devils advocate a little

Funnily enough all my tench and bream have come when using plain hemp and boilies, when I've used mixed particles I just attract the birds,

One of the waters I use Maize on is full of Rudd and corn just gets devoured in minutes hence the use on maize .

It's a very interesting subject , I wonder how long their digestive system needs to utilise the nutrients , in the case of tigers I've witnessed that aswell but I wonder if the digestive system is actually pulling any nutrients out of them . i should read up on it a bit more .

Sweetcorn is twice as effective as maize imo. Unless you're mass baiting due to cost i.e. kilos of the stuff, I can't see why maize would be used before corn as anything but a hookbait. Agree, can be difficult to use within the reach of bird life, once they've found it they'll not leave you alone. Have you tried hemp?

I'm nor sure they can mate, they could as I understand it just eat, and eat, and eat - if they chose to. I have seen fish feed to the point that they're eating the chewed up tigers they've just crapped out!!! Now that's what I call recycling lol!!!

Are Yonny thats why I didn't say stomach the system can still get full though I would have thought ?

No arguments, this is a healthy debate lads👍

This will end up going round in circles , there's no benefit to using raw other than saving time preparing . It's one of those situations where you don't need hard evidence just logic ! Some times trying to win an argument /debate is not worth it .

Ah but carp cannot fill themselves..... they have no stomach, just a digestive tract, therefore food just passes through them. I think we're all agreed that unprepared particles are a no-no all the same. Euro Aqua by any chance lol?

We know carp can be greedy when feeding , say they fill them selves 95% full with raw maize what happens if it swells before the digestive system breaks it down , just not worth even considering . No testing in jars is ever going to give you an answer .

Only 8 years late

Is that Ali hammidi with a normal rucksack?

Heading out for a quick over-nighter

I can guarantee you lads, we get done regularly on ALL rigs 😫

Thought of the day is I need a new head. 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 🔥YNWA🔥

Get yourself some maggots and do a few pleasure sessions......... will kick start your enthusiasm and remind you why we go fishing in the first place. Even a change of venue can get the old grey matter working mate you may be stuck in a rut in your water atm mate

Please see link and sign - http://chng.it/NH9GtjP4Ns

Any Pics of the secret lake ?? Sounds very Chris Yates style..

Wow, things get really complicated in UK. I use straight forward maize (used for animal feed) at 30p per kilo. I do boil it but I am not convinced even that is necessary. The main requirement is to use lots of it over a long period of time. It also makes a good hookbait with 4 or 5 raw graines fished on a hair. It is quite resistant to crayfish.