The revolutionary bald rig.

[carpepecheur]

I may have posted older versions of this idea on here before. I have now got it down to an incredibly simple rig that anyone can tie. I have made a YouTube clip to try and explain my thinking.

I apologise for the typeface used because it make L and i look the same but my font picker disappeared from the software I was using to make it.

If it is still not clear how it works, simply place a cylinder (e.g.. a round cookie cutter) over the rig and gently lift the boilie. As the line tightens you will see what is happening.

I may be simply re-inventing the wheel but have not found it described elsewhere.

 

 

[Carpbell_ll]

1 hour ago, carpepecheur said:

I may have posted older versions of this idea on here before. I have now got it down to an incredibly simple rig that anyone can tie. I have made a YouTube clip to try and explain my thinking.

I apologise for the typeface used because it make L and i look the same but my font picker disappeared from the software I was using to make it.

If it is still not clear how it works, simply place a cylinder (e.g.. a round cookie cutter) over the rig and gently lift the boilie. As the line tightens you will see what is happening.

I may be simply re-inventing the wheel but have not found it described elsewhere.

 

 

i like the look of that well thought out i suppose you could put a hook stop bead above the bait just  to make sure the bait don't slide up the line on the cast i do like the look of it could also give the braid better anti tangle casting due to no hair , will be giving it a go on a wafter bait. 

[carpepecheur]

Let us know how you get on. Yes a wafter is definitely best. The nearer you can get to neutral buoyancy the better IMHO. The rig started off as a pop up rig and evolved from there. The carp can only take one mouthful at a time so a wafter increases your chances of being included. With this rig it is still possible to hook a fish even if the boilie itself does not get past the lips. I do not think that would happen with a hair (especially a long hair as some people like to advocate using)

[commonly]

I have to say it looks to good to be true. 

The video however perfectly illustrated your point (excuse unintended pun). 

 

I too will have a try, nice one carpepecheur. 

Perhaps, you could think of a snappier name, if you plan on going mainstream with it though😉

[carpepecheur]

I used to call it The Spinner but then someone put a swivel on a hook and called that a spinner. 

Not sure what you mean by "going mainstream" I am only passing on my limited experience to anyone who might be interested. 

My carp fishing is quite a bit different from most on this forum. From personal tests I rate the hair 80 to 85% effective and the Bald Rig 98 to 99% effective. But that estimate is very subjective (and possibly biased) 

Would be interested how you get on. I would predict no missed takes. 

[crusian]

1 hour ago, carpepecheur said:

I used to call it The Spinner but then someone put a swivel on a hook and called that a spinner. 

Not sure what you mean by "going mainstream" I am only passing on my limited experience to anyone who might be interested. 

My carp fishing is quite a bit different from most on this forum. From personal tests I rate the hair 80 to 85% effective and the Bald Rig 98 to 99% effective. But that estimate is very subjective (and possibly biased) 

Would be interested how you get on. I would predict no missed takes. 

Thanks very much , Carpepecheur , I'll have a try along with Carpbell and Commonly .

😃

[yonny]

You'll have to let us know how it goes guys.

For me the 1st action vid (of the standard hair rig) demonstrates very well the rig exhibiting almost perfect hooking potential.

17 hours ago, carpepecheur said:

Would be interested how you get on. I would predict no missed takes. 

I'm not sure a rig exists that can be so effective.

What I can say is I admire your innovative thinking!

[carpepecheur]

8 minutes ago, yonny said:

For me the 1st action vid (of the standard hair rig) demonstrates very well the rig exhibiting almost perfect hooking potential.

The hair has survived for 50 odd years so of course it works well. That does not mean it cannot be improved and I like to nudge all the odds gently in my favour.

I did a lot of testing with the hair and found that the most important aspect for me IMHO is the position at which the hair comes off the shank of the hook. It needs to be just above the centre of gravity. Thus when being sucked in, and with the drag on the line, the point tucks under the boilie to make a smooth entry (and not hook outside of mouth). As soon as the line goes slack (when sucking movement stops), the hook drops down to an aggressive position. You can see this from screen shots taken from that video.

              IN                                               OUT

The drawback is that the whole of the boilie and the hook length must enter the mouth. Nine time out of ten this is not a problem. However, a carp can only take in one mouthful at a time and there must be times when the boilie does not fully enter the mouth in which case the hair rig will not work but the bald rig still has a chance.

I am also convinced that the bald rig has a further advantage in that the sudden rotation movement makes the fish bolt straight away. Obviously I cannot prove this but all my takes using it are very fast. There are no casual nibbles as it were. I am enjoying float fishing at the moment using the classic lift method. If I am using the bald rig I get a very slight lift then the float disappears off to the horizon at speed. If I use a few grains of sweetcorn on the hook, I get the classic lift and have to strike the fish or risk losing it.

I  really do appreciate any input even if it is negative and I too am VERY interested in how others get on. When you have confidence in a rig it is extremely difficult to switch to a new method.

[carpepecheur]

Could I just say something about testing rigs in general? I strongly recommend that you test your rigs in action by filming them being sucked up and then reviewing that action in slow motion or frame by frame.

I forget who it was but I read that someone advocated putting a shot on the bend of the hook to get a better hooking action. The explanation for using it was pretty convincing. When I tested it myself I saw that as soon as the sucking stopped and there was no tension in the line, the hook just dropped down bend first with little chance of hooking anything.

It is best not to take anybody’s word for anything without testing it yourself.

[emmcee]

I'm curious as to where the hook holds are in the carps mouth with this rig? 

[salokcinnodrog]

On 22/06/2021 at 13:14, carpepecheur said:

The hair has survived for 50 odd years so of course it works well. That does not mean it cannot be improved and I like to nudge all the odds gently in my favour.

I did a lot of testing with the hair and found that the most important aspect for me IMHO is the position at which the hair comes off the shank of the hook. It needs to be just above the centre of gravity. Thus when being sucked in, and with the drag on the line, the point tucks under the boilie to make a smooth entry (and not hook outside of mouth). As soon as the line goes slack (when sucking movement stops), the hook drops down to an aggressive position. You can see this from screen shots taken from that video.

              IN                                               OUT

The drawback is that the whole of the boilie and the hook length must enter the mouth. Nine time out of ten this is not a problem. However, a carp can only take in one mouthful at a time and there must be times when the boilie does not fully enter the mouth in which case the hair rig will not work but the bald rig still has a chance.

I am also convinced that the bald rig has a further advantage in that the sudden rotation movement makes the fish bolt straight away. Obviously I cannot prove this but all my takes using it are very fast. There are no casual nibbles as it were. I am enjoying float fishing at the moment using the classic lift method. If I am using the bald rig I get a very slight lift then the float disappears off to the horizon at speed. If I use a few grains of sweetcorn on the hook, I get the classic lift and have to strike the fish or risk losing it.

I  really do appreciate any input even if it is negative and I too am VERY interested in how others get on. When you have confidence in a rig it is extremely difficult to switch to a new method.

 

37 minutes ago, emmcee said:

I'm curious as to where the hook holds are in the carps mouth with this rig? 

Rod Hutchinson used a similar rig with a bottom bait and Rob Maylin used it as above with no shot. 

Rod Hutchinson found hook holds were coming outside the mouth, but note that was a bottom bait. Rob Maylin's version I did not see results, but it was pictured in the Beekay book Carp that he wrote. 

The hair is effective, but many angler's are sticking to the same hair every time. They do not change hair length to suit the needs of the bottom, their feeding or hook holds or fish losses. 

I do believe that the fish get used to the same thing every time and learn to avoid it. That can be how angler's feed, the rig length or the hair length. Too many angler's do the same thing week in week out. Fashion, big name angler's and copying 'lake tactics' or rigs all reduce thinking, and experimentation. 

I also think that there is an optimum position for the hair leaves on the hook, and that is a point opposite the shank, between the point and the barb. It gives the correct orientation for the hook to penetrate. 

If you have the hair exiting from the eye, the hook is taken in 'backwards', eye first, on ejection it leaves bend first. 

If you have the hair on the bend the hook is taken in the right way, but on blowing out (ejection), turns round and leaves bend first, no chance for the point to pr ick. 

If the hair leaves roughly midway down the shank, then  on sucking in, and blowing out the hook is facing the correct way to embed the point. 

 

In general terms, I think we are looking for the fish to eject the bait with the hair rig as it stands. We rarely hook them on sucking in. For that we need to look at other presentations, be it D rigs, and bait tight to the shank 'fixed' or sliding rig ring. Fish that pick up the bait rather than suck it in... 

 

 

I am a firm believer in looking at the hair, how I feed and trying to be different, and checking my hookholds

[carpepecheur]

4 hours ago, emmcee said:

I'm curious as to where the hook holds are in the carps mouth with this rig? 

I have fished variations of this rig against traditional hair rigs and never had a hook hold outside the mouth in fact both methods hook just inside the mouth. I cannot remember any exceptions.

The main difference is I get a few missed takes with a traditional hair but am hard pushed to remember any missed takes using this rig.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

Rod Hutchinson used a similar rig with a bottom bait and Rob Maylin used it as above with no shot. 

When you say "similar", in which way does it differ? The reason for the shot is to make sure the rotation starts with the hook at the bottom of the bait so you get the benefit of a full rotation. You can achieve a similar effect by adding a floating corn on the other side of the boilie. Oh, and I did say I was probably reinventing the wheel.

 

Rod Hutchinson found hook holds were coming outside the mouth, but note that was a bottom bait. Rob Maylin's version I did not see results, but it was pictured in the Beekay book Carp that he wrote. 

As I explained to emmcee I have NEVER had a hook hold outside the mouth.

 

The hair is effective, but many angler's are sticking to the same hair every time. They do not change hair length to suit the needs of the bottom, their feeding or hook holds or fish losses. 

If you always do the same thing you will always get the same result.

 

I do believe that the fish get used to the same thing every time and learn to avoid it. That can be how angler's feed, the rig length or the hair length. Too many angler's do the same thing week in week out. Fashion, big name angler's and copying 'lake tactics' or rigs all reduce thinking, and experimentation. 

I am fortunate here in that I often fish lakes that never have anyone else fishing for carp.

 

I also think that there is an optimum position for the hair leaves on the hook, and that is a point opposite the shank, between the point and the barb. It gives the correct orientation for the hook to penetrate. 

If you have the hair exiting from the eye, the hook is taken in 'backwards', eye first, on ejection it leaves bend first. 

If you have the hair on the bend the hook is taken in the right way, but on blowing out (ejection), turns round and leaves bend first, no chance for the point to prick. 

If the hair leaves roughly midway down the shank, then  on sucking in, and blowing out the hook is facing the correct way to embed the point. 

Absolutely. The rig hangs differently depending on whether there is tension in the hook link when being sucked in or no tension when being ejected.

 

In general terms, I think we are looking for the fish to eject the bait with the hair rig as it stands. We rarely hook them on sucking in. For that we need to look at other presentations, be it D rigs, and bait tight to the shank 'fixed' or sliding rig ring. Fish that pick up the bait rather than suck it in... 

I am a firm believer in looking at the hair, how I feed and trying to be different, and checking my hookholds

Interesting comments, thanks for the feedback.

 

[Carpbell_ll]

i will try at some point doubt it will be this week though, been the odd dodgy looking rig found so best not just yet fishery owners can be a bit twitchy as it at this time of year.

[carpepecheur]

11 hours ago, Carpbell_ll said:

i will try at some point doubt it will be this week though, been the odd dodgy looking rig found so best not just yet fishery owners can be a bit twitchy as it at this time of year.

I can’t see that the rig is any less safe than a normal hair rig, however I have never had to deal with fishery owners so I would not comment on their prejudices. I also have no experience of so called “rig shy” fish.

Salokcinnodrog made an interesting point about changing hair length to suit bottom conditions such as silt which set my grey cells rotating. I have a concern which I cannot find a way to test yet so I offer the following thought experiment.

The problem, as I see it, when looking at explanations of how a rig works, is that it usually considered on its own in isolation from anything else that is happening in a carp’s mouth.

A carp can only pick up a certain amount at any one time e.g. a mouthful equal to the volume of its buccal cavity. This will consist of water, silt, ground bait, freebies and hopefully your hook bait so how will this affect your rig?

Just to keep the maths simple, imagine a cube of 27 boilies which equate to a single mouthful being sucked in. The top layer of 9 boilies will go well into the mouth. The second layer of 9 boilies are also comfortable inside the mouth. The bottom layer of 9 boilies will only just be inside the mouth.

Now imagine each boilie is on a hair attached to a hook. The first two layers will be OK but the with the lower layer of 9 boilies the hook will never go inside the mouth so can never work. In other words you only have a 66% chance of the hair working. With the bald rig the hook turns above the boilie so you have a 100% chance of it working.

Do the same with smaller boilies occupying the same volume. If you have a 4 X 4 X 4 pattern (64 boilie) using the same logic the hair rig will have a 75% chance of working (bald rig stays at 100%). So I would conclude the bigger the boilie, relative to the buccal cavity volume, the bigger the chance of a hair not working.

OK that is an extremely hypothetical explanation but I think there may be SOME merit in the conclusion. When your bait is sucked up it is competing with all sorts of detritus to find room inside that cap's mouth.

Please do give it a try Carpbell. I think it is good to have an enquiring mind and, as said before, let us know how you get on.

[emmcee]

19 hours ago, carpepecheur said:

I have fished variations of this rig against traditional hair rigs and never had a hook hold outside the mouth in fact both methods hook just inside the mouth. I cannot remember any exceptions.

The main difference is I get a few missed takes with a traditional hair but am hard pushed to remember any missed takes using this rig.

 

 

 

Interesting comments, thanks for the feedback.

 

When you say missed takes I'm guessing you mean hook pulls? I only ask as how do you know the fish has picked up your hookbait and spat it out or not? Unless you fish the margins and see what is happening.  

 

I've watched numerous underwater videos of carp feeding with rigs present and nearly all are picked up and rejected, have you witnessed carp take your rig in to its mouth? 

[carpepecheur]

38 minutes ago, emmcee said:

When you say missed takes I'm guessing you mean hook pulls? I only ask as how do you know the fish has picked up your hookbait and spat it out or not? Unless you fish the margins and see what is happening.  

I've watched numerous underwater videos of carp feeding with rigs present and nearly all are picked up and rejected, have you witnessed carp take your rig in to its mouth? 

That is an excellent question emcee. No I do not mean hook pulls and I have not watched my rig enter a carp’s mouth. I have probably watched the same videos as you which is why I came up with the idea.

I often use, what I refer to as, an “active lead” system. This is simply a collar mounted on the lead. I wind down and put a strong bend in the rod as the collar digs into the silt and the line is bowstring tight. The slightest movement of the bait dislodges the lead and the rod straightens. (I am sure I have posted this system on here before). If the rod straightens and I have no fish, I assume I have been “done”.

Also, as previously mentioned, this year I have been float fishing a lot using the classic “lift” method. If I use the bald rig, the fish tears off straight away. If I use a typical hair, I do sometimes get a lift and return before I get a chance to strike. The same thing happens when using sweetcorn directly on the hook.

From this evidence I surmise that the bald rig is better but I would be happy to listen to other ideas.

[crusian]

On 21/06/2021 at 14:55, carpepecheur said:

I may have posted older versions of this idea on here before. I have now got it down to an incredibly simple rig that anyone can tie. I have made a YouTube clip to try and explain my thinking.

I apologise for the typeface used because it make L and i look the same but my font picker disappeared from the software I was using to make it.

If it is still not clear how it works, simply place a cylinder (e.g.. a round cookie cutter) over the rig and gently lift the boilie. As the line tightens you will see what is happening.

I may be simply re-inventing the wheel but have not found it described elsewhere.

 

 

 Hello Carpepecheur

I was happy with the rig I was using , but last trip out I had a couple of tangles , so now seems an ideal time to try out The Bald Rig .

Some questions please to help me on my way .

I use 15lb mainline so I guess I don't thread the boilie directly onto my line as it will be too stiff ? ; maybe thread the boilie onto  a coated braid hooklink  , and peel back the section that the boilie and split shot rest on ? .

Lastly , do you think it makes any difference if I threaded a dumbell wafter horizontally , or vertically  ? .

Oh , I like Emcees' idea of threading a stop above the boilie to stop it sliding up the line .

😃 

[crusian]

2 minutes ago, crusian said:

 Hello Carpepecheur

I was happy with the rig I was using , but last trip out I had a couple of tangles , so now seems an ideal time to try out The Bald Rig .

Some questions please to help me on my way .

I use 15lb mainline so I guess I don't thread the boilie directly onto my line as it will be too stiff ? ; maybe thread the boilie onto  a coated braid hooklink  , and peel back the section that the boilie and split shot rest on ? .

Lastly , do you think it makes any difference if I threaded a dumbell wafter horizontally , or vertically  ? .

Oh , I like Emcees' idea of threading a stop above the boilie to stop it sliding up the line .

😃 

Oops , sorry it was Carpbell that mentioned a stop bead ! .

🙄

[carpepecheur]

2 hours ago, crusian said:

 Hello Carpepecheur

I was happy with the rig I was using , but last trip out I had a couple of tangles , so now seems an ideal time to try out The Bald Rig .

Some questions please to help me on my way .

I use 15lb mainline so I guess I don't thread the boilie directly onto my line as it will be too stiff ? ; maybe thread the boilie onto  a coated braid hooklink  , and peel back the section that the boilie and split shot rest on ? .

Lastly , do you think it makes any difference if I threaded a dumbell wafter horizontally , or vertically  ? .

Oh , I like Emcees' idea of threading a stop above the boilie to stop it sliding up the line .

😃 

No definitely use a separate hook link. You want a safe set up. I always use an inline lead on mainline with swivel at end of hooklink.

I guess a stiff braid hooklink is OK but you definitely need a flexible line at the boilie end. It was not particularly designed as an anti-tangle rig. Personally, if I am casting I put the rig in a PVA bag (I have my own ideas about that too!). Where possible, I prefer to use a bait boat.

I didn’t even know what a dumbell wafter was so had to google it. It looks OK. Definitely thread it on through its long axis.

I have not found the need to put a stop above the boilie. I try to keep stuff as simple as possible but it should do no harm. You could also consider a floating maize instead of a stop.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[crusian]

15 minutes ago, carpepecheur said:

No definitely use a separate hook link. You want a safe set up. I always use an inline lead on mainline with swivel at end of hooklink.

I guess a stiff braid hooklink is OK but you definitely need a flexible line at the boilie end. It was not particularly designed as an anti-tangle rig. Personally, if I am casting I put the rig in a PVA bag (I have my own ideas about that too!). Where possible, I prefer to use a bait boat.

I didn’t even know what a dumbell wafter was so had to google it. It looks OK. Definitely thread it on through its long axis.

I have not found the need to put a stop above the boilie. I try to keep stuff as simple as possible but it should do no harm. You could also consider a floating maize instead of a stop.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Thanks , Carpepecheur .

I'm away on holiday at the moment , so it will be at least the end of next week before I can experiment .

😃

[carpepecheur]

15 hours ago, crusian said:

Thanks , Carpepecheur .

I'm away on holiday at the moment , so it will be at least the end of next week before I can experiment .

😃

Appreciate your interest. have a great holiday

[kevtaylor]

Like others I'm a little confused in it being said that they dont get away with it - I mean how would you know?

I'm often using the bare multi rig for pop-ups which allegedly shows when ones been pricked as the hook is free to move with any tightening- well that's happened once in 5+ years and I've caught a fair few fish on it - so is that a wonder rig - it seems to nail everything that takes it, but I bet in reality I've been done countless times by takes so gentle it didnt prick itself at all.

I met someone 30 odd years ago who'd designed a carps head that sucked in rigs for testing purposes - I laughed it off tbh  if it were so good we'd all have them surely.  You cant replicate what's going on with a palm test or fake fish head imo but its brilliant to think outside the box so I applaud it.

Really just want to see the results compared to other rigs, who's tried it so far and what are the original posters results?

 

[carpepecheur]

11 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

Like others I'm a little confused in it being said that they don't get away with it - I mean how would you know?

The answer, of course, is that you will never know for sure. What floats my boat is trying to think outside the box . I would never claim they NEVER get away with it - only that they are less likely to. As I said earlier, I have been float fishing recently using the lift method. With a conventional hair, it is common to see a half lift then nothing happens suggesting the bait has been dropped. With the Bald Rig, there is no lift at all the float just disappears at speed. I suspect the sudden rotation movement spooks the fish. I cannot remember seeing a half lift using this rig.

I'm often using the bare multi rig for pop-ups which allegedly shows when ones been pricked as the hook is free to move with any tightening- well that's happened once in 5+ years and I've caught a fair few fish on it - so is that a wonder rig - it seems to nail everything that takes it, but I bet in reality I've been done countless times by takes so gentle it didnt prick itself at all.

I would suggest that it is possible the fish is dropping the bait before whole of the hook has entered the mouth (as I tried to describe in my two side by side photos above in this thread) and this is precisely the situation I was trying to work around.

I met someone 30 odd years ago who'd designed a carps head that sucked in rigs for testing purposes - I laughed it off tbh  if it were so good we'd all have them surely.  You cant replicate what's going on with a palm test or fake fish head imo but its brilliant to think outside the box so I applaud it.

You may well laugh at the idea but personally, I have learned a lot from watching the behaviour of a rig as it is sucked up and released (albeit using artificial methods). It is surely better than doing nothing and just guessing? I share your suspicion of the effectiveness of the palm test.

Really just want to see the results compared to other rigs, who's tried it so far and what are the original posters results?

I am only throwing this idea out there to give creative anglers food for thought.

My results? I have had a great deal of fun experimenting with these ideas. What more could you ask for? 

 

PS. A couple of weeks ago I caught a tench using this method that was so small, the boilie was to big to go inside its mouth BUT it was still hooked cleanly INSIDE its mouth. 

 

 

[kevtaylor]

I'm not knocking you at all, don't get that impression - I said I applaud thinking outside the box.  There are far too many blind followers these days and without thinkers there would be no progression.  I've had many ideas over the years from using powdered clay in baits in spring to various uses of decoy baits and rig tweeks, if I get the bank time to put ideas into action I will tell you about it years later once I've caught everything lol  My ideas seem to come to me when I'm trying to get to sleep, mulling over a problem or experience - I have to run for a pen and paper or its gone forever!

Seeing the carp head did make me giggle _ I was probably 18 and was catching so many carp on the standard hair rig I didn't need anything technical - this was really ahead of the times - but as far as I know the guy didn't sell lots of them.

What you've said about the little tench is very interesting and backs up your line of thinking 👍

 

[dalej2014]

This is an interesting concept; i wonder if it will "catch on"!? (sorry, couldn't resist the pun!).

On a serious note do you think a small piece of cork on the bottom shank of the hook would help lift it and catch more? May be especially effective with a bottom bait or wafter, as the hook will fly up quicker? Just an idea/observation. I may have to test this rig, just out of curiosity!