Flavour of the Week - Rigs

[salokcinnodrog]

3 hours ago, carpepecheur said:

I am not sure what you mean in the last line of your post Gordon. Once the the rig is set the only force is upwards when a fish takes. In my experience I very rarely miss a take. In that rare event, I always know I have been done because the rod has straightened. 

I have also observed the same thing as you when a carp drops a bait that seems to have been taken well. That is why I dropped using a hair and put the boilie directly on the hook link in a rig I call "The Spinner". I made a rather poor quality youtube clip of it to try and explain it to some one. It s only a tank test using an artificial mouth but I think you will get the idea.

 

 

With the plastic disc at the swivel on the lead, (originally done with the integral swivel in the lead), the direction of the take, straight away from the angler, or lift and turn etc will have the disc having force put on it at a different angle, before going upwards.

 

 

[carpepecheur]

Judging by the replies it seems I have not explained the Active Lead system very well. I live the life of a recluse and have no contact with other anglers (apart from the odd digital exchange such as this) so communication is not a strong point of mine. I will try and be a bit clearer.

First of all the lead is a bog standard, in line, torpedo or bomb shaped lead. It has a swivel at the blunt end which detaches in the event of a crack off to avoid a carp dragging the lead around for the rest of its natural. The ONLY difference I make is to hammer a steel washer onto the slimmer end. Ok I sometimes paint it black. It is no more complicated than that.

It may lack some aerodynamic qualities but, because of arthritis, I always use a bait boat so that does not bother me.

You use it in exactly the same way as any other in line lead. You wind in the slack line but then gradually increase the tension until you have a slight bend in the rod. If it slips whilst doing this, repeat a couple of times until it holds. Unless the lake bed is completely smooth this doesn’t take much.

You sit there and watch your rod tip. All the time your rod maintains a bend then you know your bait is untouched. The slightest movement by a fish of any description will cause the weight to slip and the tip to straighten. If it is a carp then it is usually followed by a one toner as it bolts, frightened by the sudden small movement. It may only be a small bream, in which case it might not get the bait in its mouth but it can still release the tension with just a very small tug.

So, if you see your rod has straightened but no line is taken out, you know immediately that the bait has been interfered with. I have found by trial and error that a weight of around 60 grams is ideal.

I have been using this system for over 5 years now and rarely miss a take. The secret to its success is, I believe, a short hook link – which is where this discussion started.

 

 

[chillfactor]

I renember when you first showed us your idea years ago mate,  was a different video , certainly got people thinking , I wondered how you got on with it as it was in its infancy.  Sounds like it's doing the job for you 😎 

 

[carpepecheur]

It suits my style of fishing - big open snag free waters. Depends which side of the "slack lines versus tight line" argument you favour. For me it so simple, cheap and effective it is a no brainer. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by carpepecheur

[elmoputney]

Now I understand it a little more i can see how it works, i don't really have any issues with it, I think if it works for you then you have created an edge that no one will probably be using, and a genuine edge is quite rare these days good stuff 

.my initial understanding was the lead disconnected from the washer on a take which could work if the washer didn't become a nuisance after it ejected, it could be like a running rig with an initial bolt effect 

 

[carpepecheur]

1 hour ago, elmoputney said:

Now I understand it a little more i can see how it works, i don't really have any issues with it, I think if it works for you then you have created an edge that no one will probably be using, and a genuine edge is quite rare these days good stuff 

.my initial understanding was the lead disconnected from the washer on a take which could work if the washer didn't become a nuisance after it ejected, it could be like a running rig with an initial bolt effect 

 

I am grateful for your misunderstanding because it has given me another idea to follow up. That’s the big benefit of forums like this.

 

I don’t need an edge over other anglers because I am lucky to be able to fish waters with virtually no other carp anglers on them. My main competition is with myself.

[jh92]

What rig length do you use if fishing an inline lead over clean ground? I'm at about 8" at the moment but wondering if I should try shorter

 

[carpepecheur]

Personally, I would use around 6 cms. That seems to be just the right length to get the bait into the mouth before it tightens against the lead. My thinking is that any longer length just gives the carp more time to eject the bait.

[commonly]

22 minutes ago, jh92 said:

What rig length do you use if fishing an inline lead over clean ground? I'm at about 8" at the moment but wondering if I should try shorter

 

Depends on material your using imo. 

I tended to use a stiff fluro around 6" combi with balanced hookbait

[jh92]

1 minute ago, carpepecheur said:

Personally, I would use around 6 cms. That seems to be just the right length to get the bait into the mouth before it tightens against the lead. My thinking is that any longer length just gives the carp more time to eject the bait.

Might have to try shorter then lol. I was always under the impression that it was easier for a fish to shake the hook out when fishing a really short rig because of how far away the lead is? Or something along them lines anyway 😂

1 minute ago, commonly said:

Depends on material your using imo. 

I tended to use a stiff fluro around 6" combi with balanced hookbait

Esp tungsten loaded for me. Nothing fancy about my rigs just a simple hair rig with a bit of shrink tubing lol

[carpepecheur]

2 minutes ago, jh92 said:

. I was always under the impression that it was easier for a fish to shake the hook out when fishing a really short rig because of how far away the lead is?

I can't remember the last time I lost a fish once hooked. I do use micro barbed hooks, maybe that helps. I think some people put forward a lot of theories that sound good but have no basis when actually put to the test.

[commonly]

Never used shrink tubing, nothing simple about that with my chubby fingers, I find the KD style knot gives the aggressive hook angle with a curved shank hook, much quicker to tie for me! 

[commonly]

Same! 

Quick flick with a file for added sticky point, not lost any take. 

A guy I fish with sometimes, drops fish due to blunt hook point, pointed it out to him, but still doesn't bother to get a sharpener!! 

38 minutes ago, carpepecheur said:

can't remember the last time I lost a fish once hooked. I do use micro barbed hooks, 

 

[carpepecheur]

Wow. With all the time and money invested in fishing it is hard to imagine anyone not sharpening their hook each time. It must be the easiest ,cheapest and most effective thing you can do.

[chillfactor]

The only problem with short rigs , is your never catch those fish that suck up baits from a long way back or up .... quite often the bigger fish too . 

[commonly]

Well if I ever get on the bank I'm determined to make zigs work, thus coming away from bottom baits and the need to throw £??'s worth of bait in. 

[jh92]

Interesting replies lads, I forgot to mention I mainly fish bottom baits. I'm gonna shorten my rigs down to 5-6" and go from there. 

 

[chillfactor]

It's an eye opener when it all comes together mate that's for sure . One of my best ever sessions was using no bait what so ever !  

3 minutes ago, commonly said:

Well if I ever get on the bank I'm determined to make zigs work, thus coming away from bottom baits and the need to throw £??'s worth of bait in. 

 

[carpepecheur]

10 minutes ago, chillfactor said:

The only problem with short rigs , is your never catch those fish that suck up baits from a long way back or up .... quite often the bigger fish too . 

That is excellent point.

The question is how back can a carp still suck up a bait. I do tests with a suction tube in a tank and find it takes an exponential amount of extra suck the further you get from the bait?

The next question is how does the carp react when it finds the bait tethered by a short link? Does it back off or move closer to take it?

I don't have any ideas I just like thinking about it.

[chillfactor]

1 hour ago, carpepecheur said:

That is excellent point.

The question is how back can a carp still suck up a bait. I do tests with a suction tube in a tank and find it takes an exponential amount of extra suck the further you get from the bait?

The next question is how does the carp react when it finds the bait tethered by a short link? Does it back off or move closer to take it?

I don't have any ideas I just like thinking about it.

The bigger the fish,  the stronger the Hoover from what I've seen , a mid twenty can suck up boillies from over 1ft away , leaving your rig in place & moving on , they soon work out the safest way to feed !  The thing to remember they all feed slightly differently,  so for me not one rig or lead setup will catch every fish in the lake . Sometimes you get lucky & catch a glimpse of  a target fish feeding & the penny drops for that particular fish.  

[carpepecheur]

I agree with everything you say apart from   "a mid twenty can suck up boillies from over 1ft away". I am not saying it is incorrect just that it is a lot for me to get my mind around. I should imagine it depends on how bouyant a bait is. A wafter is obviously more "suckable" than a heavier bait. Even so, imagine sucking up some sherbet with a straw. Obviously, if you get close, it is easy but you don't have  to get very far away from the sherbert before no amount of sucking will have any effect. I wish I was clever enough to work out the physics of the situation. You have certainly provided food for thought though.

 

[chillfactor]

12 minutes ago, carpepecheur said:

I agree with everything you say apart from   "a mid twenty can suck up boillies from over 1ft away". I am not saying it is incorrect just that it is a lot for me to get my mind around. I should imagine it depends on how bouyant a bait is. A wafter is obviously more "suckable" than a heavier bait. Even so, imagine sucking up some sherbet with a straw. Obviously, if you get close, it is easy but you don't have  to get very far away from the sherbert before no amount of sucking will have any effect. I wish I was clever enough to work out the physics of the situation. You have certainly provided food for thought though.

 

This is the fish in question .... look at the Hoover  on it ! Lol 

Edited May 19, 2019 by chillfactor

[emmcee]

44 minutes ago, Leonard said:

People get a bit too (rear end related extreme fussyness) about rigs

I use just one rig at the moment, as it has unlocked big fish on the specific venue I'm on, and it is the only venue I fish (and is a belter)

I had to experiment a LOT, for two years, so now I deserve for things to be made simple and clear for me!

It's very silty and the lead size plays a big part in silt so you have to think about that in relation to the rig. If I want to double the lead size I will use a longer rig, but on the whole I stick to the formula I worked out, on all three rods, as I am confident on it - simples

You don't need to muck about with inches though by any means, think more in terms of five inches at a time and doubling or halving lead sizes, something like that

 

 

 

 

Where abouts do you Fish? Or is it no publicity? Or what size fish are you catching? 

Sounds a good water. Is it a busy water? 

[emmcee]

11 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Top secret sorry, took me 10 years to find it mate and nothing against you lot but there is no way I would publicise it as a certain crowd of anglers near me are not my friends and don't deserve to know about it in any way shape or form, plus they are bad anglers anyway

As I get to know people on here I might tell them about in in PMs when I have had my fill and moved on!

Pressured enough yes, like everywhere really, and tricky as hell at times

Good 30lb plus fish, just a typical mature venue with quality original fish

 

 

 

Understand keeping it hush. I was only curious,  I've got more waters within 45mins of me than I can deal with. All holding big fish but most pretty busy. Some are like a circus so not my venue despite holding numerous 40's and a few 50's . More or less done on my current water but do Have one water I've only scratched the surface of , so that's next in the colne valley. 

[emmcee]

1 minute ago, Leonard said:

You're very lucky, things are thin on the ground out my way

Don't worry about the circus lakes, just fish them on midweek nights and try and make a point of using the opposite to what all the noddy weekend, 'beer cans in the bushes' crowd are doing on there!

Been fishing long enough and caught enough to know my onions thanks. Luckily the circus lakes I've been,  done and got the tshirts on, so will leave alone. Unless as you rightly say I can do midweek sessions,  but with my work that's impossible.  I only thought of going back to these waters as all the big  fish I had are now deceased and new ones have come through.