Flavour of the Week - Rigs

[...]

New 1 again....RIGS

90% of the time i use a Coated Combi link...around 6-7 inch long...coated braid but stripped back about 1 inch before hook and for the hair rig...shrink tube on the eye around the knot and small piece on shank for hair...tied to a swiveland a anti tangle sleeve...then clip onto quick swivel...

[Pete Springate's Guns]

I do fanny around occasionally but for the majority of the time my go to rig is uncoated, supple braid, knotless knotted through to the hair which gives plenty of separation and movement (was original Kryston but now on the old ESP Sinklink) of around 8”, longish shrink tube line aligner to a sharpened beak point hook (loving the ESP cryogens). Preference is for a balanced bottom bait, Tiger, Brazil or snowman if using boilie hookbaits. If I can still reach the distance, I’ll always have a pva mesh bag/stringer attached.

Its not really changed since the early ‘90’s and has caught all my bigest fish from silty Cheshire & Shropshire meres, to estate lakes in Warwickshire and Herefordshire and gravel pits in Northamptonshire and Berkshire.

Occasionaly, I’ll go on single flouro pop ups/wafters and I’ll use a coated braid but hook and line aligner are the same, just add an appropriate sized shot.

 

[yonny]

All my life I've used the HSR for dirty spots and a simple bottom bait rig for the cleanest of clean spots. It's only this year I've started using the ronnie that sits in between those two rigs. I'd happily use a multi in place of it tbf.

I always have a chod tied up ready to chuck at something too I suppose. I use this less and less but I'm sure that's because I've been on my water a while now so know the spots really well. Put me on a new water and It'd be used I'm sure.

[B.C.]

I've piddled about in the past and done my own head in.... For simplicity I just use a variation of the multi rig for pop ups (and occasionally bottom baits too)……. My go to bottom bait rig on clean bottoms is a simple stripped back a couple of inches from the hook, semi stiff coated braid...…. By sticking to two rigs for the most part, my tackle box isn't full of bits I rarely use any more...….. I'm more inclined to change the hair length/hook length or add/remove a bit of weight if I want to tweak my rig, rather than drift from the tried and tested...…. I've found, too, that by sticking to a couple of rigs, they just get easier and quicker to tie up and you don't get caught off guard at the tackle shop, as you know exactly the few components that you will be using each time...…. Hook wise I like the Gardener Mugga's for bottom baits and the ESP Cryogen stiff riggers for my multi rigs.

[B.C.]

On ‎22‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 17:08, Highy said:

around 6-7 inch long..

Had some vicious takes with 3.5 - 4 inch hooklinks on clean gravel this year, after taking on board what Yonny mentioned about a friend of his using shorter hooklinks…….. Think sometimes they are so used to 7-8 inch and can get away with it...…. I imagine that as soon as they suck in the shorter hooklink, the weight of the lead is engaged instantly , and , bang, they are hooked. Haven't had the confidence to try this on anything other than clean bottom though.....

[salokcinnodrog]

I have goodness knows how many rigs tied up in my rig bins, most on a simple knotless knotted hooklink with a line aligner, although there are some with a sliding ring on the hookshank.

 

My pop-up rigs are on Ronnie, D-rigs or occasionally 360 rigs.

I do not faff about with rigs, I use what works for me.

As much as a knotless knot is good, there are times it needs a line aligner or kicker.

What a lot of people don't realise is that by changing the hooklink material you can totally change a rigs behaviour and hooking ability. The other thing is that since the invention of the hair when it was originally tied around an inch long then being extended it has become shorter again, almost being shank mounted.

Changing hair and rig length makes a difference!

While Ronnie rigs are the current fashion, there will come a time when it stops being so effective, maybe because sucking and blowing by the carp means the bait becomes marked, or is simply unable to be sucked in with hook following.

 

[Ginger9991]

My pop up rigs are 4" soft n-traps ronnies in solid bags or 7" on a boom if im fishing singles. Kurv shanks in a 6 or 8 with a 12mm pop up.

My other rig is a blow back rig usually with a whole bottom bait and half a pop up...bait will still sit on the bottom. Thats again N-trap soft 6 to 7" on a size 8 or 6 kurv shank. Use a korda kicker on these.

Have 100% faith in both these rigs so see no reason to change them although i will mess about with bigger hooks (4) to see if that makes any difference to what im catching.

[salokcinnodrog]

On 13 May 2019 at 20:16, Leonard said:

Make your mind up mate.

I decided on ONE length of rig many years ago which I fish everywhere with complete confidence over any type of lakebed. It keeps working with brilliant hookholds, so why the hell should I complicate things?

Hopefully one day you will catch then. Different feeding situations, different lakes and lakebeds, even angling pressure may mean you need to change your rig(s), from hooklink material to rig length.

 

I wouldn't fish a combi-rig over weed, whereas I would over gravel. In weed I will likely want a braided rig, whereas on gravel I might want a short stiff rig if I am feeding heavily.

 

If all anglers are fishing rigs between 6-8inches, I might well want something longer or shorter.

[yonny]

9 hours ago, Leonard said:

stir up debate

A debate is a discussion buddy, exchanging ideas and opinions. What forums are for.

Your posts cite your opinion as gospel and take offence to anyone that attempts to question your beliefs. It's about as far from a debate as you can get imo.

Further to that, you really need to keep any hypocrisy in check (that's not intended as an insult buddy, just an observation); that last post accuses Nick of being rude for assuming where you fish/what you catch, and then goes on to do just that in return. Think of this as constructive criticism, it's not intended as an insult.

You've popped up on various forums and it seldom lasts more than a few days before you get banned. At some point you have to acknowledge it's you at fault and not the rest of the online community. You need to adapt buddy because it looks to me like it's heading that way already.

[greekskii]

careful @yonny that might be misunderstood as everything else has been so far

[commonly]

15 minutes ago, Leonard said:

do catch thanks

Is that under the bridge your residence?? 

Re. You pm, yes I've had many 20's,thanks for asking🙂

[greekskii]

14 minutes ago, Leonard said:

I do catch thanks, and I disagree that you need different rigs here, there, and everywhere mate.

You adjust the lead setup, not the rig..

The rig I use is long, so it already suits weed and silt.. I've always used a long hooklink, a throwback to starting out in sea fishing.. But funnily enough I use a shorter rig for sea fishing.. with hook beads on the sea rig and nothing of the sort on the carp rig.. lol

I get you in a sense, I use the multi rig in two different styles for most of my fishing at lengths normally between 7-11 inches, this only varies when I know I am in deeper silt (where I use a light lead and heli set up to counter it on the most part as you say). I normally use 8 or 9 inch hooklengths, only going shorter for stalking with heavy leads at close range.

Don't think you can say there is no need at all to adjust rig length though, that's a pretty definitive statement. Fishing a 1ft hooklength on a small spot at close range would be more ineffective than a short 6 inch hooklength. And before you say anything, I've witnessed the difference with my own eyes at hooking potential, the shorter hooklength converts far more times in this situation. But I agree with you that changing the lead set up will help combat weed or deep silt more than just increasing hook length size.

Be interesting to get you take on zigs and floater fishing hooklength sizes.

[yonny]

I will normally go with the shortest rig I think I can get away with to suit the spot/substrate, which isn't always that short as I prefer to fish just off the cleanest spots.

[emmcee]

Not overly fussed about rigs, I'm more concerned with what bait is on the end of mine. After all if you've got a bait they don't want to eat then the best rig in the world won't catch them. Simples

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

In amongst all the rubbish you read about rigs in the mags, (which have all gone a bit tacky these days IMO even the supposed ''high brow'' ones, lol), I did read the odd thing which makes sense.

If you have some stiff material in your rig, which obviously includes coated braid left on most of the rig, then you should fish it on a helicopter setup, and set the length at maximum seven inches..

This is for the simple reason that it will lay flat (obviously on a clean area)..

Any more length and you will get an awkward ''loop up''

On the flipside, soft braid will ALWAYS loop up, OR COIL UP.. by that I mean however many rabbit droppings you put on there, it will coil up anyway, and if you don't it will loop up (DESPITE) how heavy and fast sinking ANY ad will claim).. I am a braid user, know this, and care not even the slightest bit, so I put nothing whatsoever on the hooklink and make zero effort to sink it, as I found it works better that way, for me.. Soft braid has a big advantage in that, especially soaked through, it registers as nothing other than a soft strand of weed and doesn't spook them

Sorry I was a bit sharp, I have a tendency to say/post exactly as I think it.

I agree with braid looping up, although I did find once it was wet I could rub mud or putty over it, the whole length, and it would sink.

Short braid hooklinks loop up more than longer ones I think, but I tend to use braid in short lengths, normally a maximum 9inches anyway, mostly in PVA bags where I want the rig to be coiled, definitely not straight. 

I'm not sure about always fishing stiffer material on a helicopter lead set-up, this is where we have differing opinions, but it may be, because I prefer combi-rigs with a mono or fluoro stiff section on gravel, sand or clay, not silt, and always make them with a loop at the end, or use a ring swivel.

If I can I prefer running leads with a slack line, however undertow can ruin that idea, so on the big fish water I end up fishing the tight line.

This is where our opinions split apart again, as my big fish water has so many different features, from massive gravel bars, to weedbeds and silt patches, and I want the right rig for each as fish spend time on or in all of them. I could also find myself fishing another water over the causeway if the main water is crowded with anglers, hence plenty of rigs.

 

[carpepecheur]

I agree with Greekski. The shorter the better but specifically when using a bolt lead. If you are using a running leger style of rig then perhaps the thinking may change and of course the presence of weed and silt need to be considered.

 

The length needs to be just long enough to allow the carp to take the bait into its mouth then the bolt effect should do its magic. If you have a longer link you are simply giving the carp more time to eject the bait.

 

I add an extra twist to the bolt effect. I force a wide steel washer onto a bomb style lead so that it is just the angler side of the centre of gravity. I then wind my line as tight as I can, getting the washer to dig in. I use mono for its stretch and also put a bend into the rod fished sea angler style.

 

When the bait is taken, just a very small upwards force is required from the fish to cause all the tension in the line and rod to release the lead and jerk it towards the angler. This movement may cause a hooking action in itself but I believe that the small movement panics the fish into bolting before it has time to eject the bait. I will try and upload a diagram to show what I mean.

 

If I am using a boilie I give myself an extra edge by not using a hair. I have a rig that spins the bait the moment the bait is picked up and spins the hook inside the mouth looking for a hold. It works perfectly for me but again it relies on a short link.

Edited May 16, 2019 by carpepecheur

[carpepecheur]

38 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Interesting mate

Tension setups/catapult style are spoken of in a few books, Frank Warwick is a big fan of them with very tight lines indeed and quiver, tension indicators.. Have you thought of achieving your effect with simply a very heavy lead of five ounces, maybe even six? Or is it not quite the same?

We are all different and all perhaps get a bit set in our ways, I mean many of us, too many perhaps, get stuck on using, say, a lead clip or a heli rig (in other words semi fixed every time) with a lead of around 2.5-3.5 oz

It would be more difficult to get the small initial movement that I am looking for when using a heavier lead. I tend to use 60 grams. I have experimented with the leads with small anti slip nodules on. I think they are called cling ons or something similar. They do work but not quite as well.

It was Fank Warwick's work with adding a split shot to the curve of the hook to get it to drop into the bottom lip that led me to develop my spinner rig. I filmed the mechanics of a shot on the bend of the hook and it did work up to a point (pardon the pun). It seemed to work better with small baits and long hairs and also depended on the vertical angle of the fish. If the fish was vertical it could take the bait straight out of the mouth. With a spinning bait the hook rotates in the mouth finding a hold irrespective of these variables.

I have found something that I can understand, am comfortable with and have confidence in. IMHO, above everything else, confidence is paramount.

[carpepecheur]

My sincere thanks, Leonard, for your disapprobation of my comments. It tends to lend them more gravitas than they deserve.

 

You admit “can't pretend I understand the theories perfectly to be honest” which speaks volumes. I have spent a lot of time testing, filming, and comparing techniques and am happy with my conclusions.

 

If you have trouble coping with ideas on this forum I suggest you make yourself nice and comfortable under that bridge of yours. I remember now why I rarely post on forums these days.

[elmoputney]

What happens to the washer when you get a take ? Does it then run free up the line ? If so I would suggest it may increase your chances of a cut off if it became snagged or weeded as that could be stuck and your line rubbing back and forth on the metal 

[carpepecheur]

Good question but that is not how it works. The washer is forced onto the lead so that is a permanent fixture. You have to experiment to get the washer to match the lead diameter. The downside is that there is a bit of drag when you retrieve it but with a fish on you would never know it was there. I will try and add a photo of one.

[carpepecheur]

I found a you tube clip I made 5 years ago where I tested it in my swimming pool which might help show the idea.

 

 

[salokcinnodrog]

Hmm!

A few points over various posts so I will have to try to remember them in some sort of order.

 

The knotless knot as Leonard has said can be hit and miss.

I noticed this on a water where I was casting a braided rig next to the rushes on a lake and could watch pick-ups at 10metres range. I watched 2 commons, both 8lb, so nothing massive, pick the bait up, take it right back, so the hook was definitely in the mouth and then see the whole lot come tumbling out of the mouth with just a single bleep.

I had noticed a few single bleeps in other areas of the lake, and as there are plenty of silvers in the lake, put it down to them.

The missing fish got me back going to the line aligner, exactly the same hooks, rig material, hair length.

This was cast into the area where I saw the missed takes and along came the three fish. First take, short fat common, on the bank 8lb. Next trip, same area, the other common, a long thin one, 8lb. Strangely, I never saw their companion, a big mirror pick a hookbait up.

I do not know why, but the line aligner, personally, I have found is more effective than a plain curved kicker turning the hook, with the exception of inturned eye patterns. The exception is extreme curves, Withy or Half-Withy pool style, but then you are looking at pop-up rig vs bottom baits.

Pop-up rigs also work totally differently to bottom bait rigs.

 

The washer on the lead, I saw years ago, must be early 80's something similar but for a totally different reason. A plastic disc on the pendant lead to prevent it sinking into silt. I found film canister lids very handy for that.

With the lead fished (semi-) fixed, the disc would pull the lead the 'wrong way' as it tipped and dug into the silt, then the lead pops out. 

 

 

[carpepecheur]

42 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I noticed this on a water where I was casting a braided rig next to the rushes on a lake and could watch pick-ups at 10metres range. I watched 2 commons, both 8lb, so nothing massive, pick the bait up, take it right back, so the hook was definitely in the mouth and then see the whole lot come tumbling out of the mouth with just a single bleep.

 

The washer on the lead, I saw years ago, With the lead fished (semi-) fixed, the disc would pull the lead the 'wrong way' as it tipped and dug into the silt, then the lead pops out. 

I am not sure what you mean in the last line of your post Gordon. Once the the rig is set the only force is upwards when a fish takes. In my experience I very rarely miss a take. In that rare event, I always know I have been done because the rod has straightened. 

I have also observed the same thing as you when a carp drops a bait that seems to have been taken well. That is why I dropped using a hair and put the boilie directly on the hook link in a rig I call "The Spinner". I made a rather poor quality youtube clip of it to try and explain it to some one. It s only a tank test using an artificial mouth but I think you will get the idea.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by carpepecheur

[emmcee]

23 hours ago, Leonard said:

Interesting mate

Tension setups/catapult style are spoken of in a few books, Frank Warwick is a big fan of them with very tight lines indeed and quiver, tension indicators.. Have you thought of achieving your effect with simply a very heavy lead of five ounces, maybe even six? Or is it not quite the same?

We are all different and all perhaps get a bit set in our ways, I mean many of us, too many perhaps, get stuck on using, say, a lead clip or a heli rig (in other words semi fixed every time) with a lead of around 2.5-3.5 oz

Totally agree with the lead sizes. On my old lake you'd get "done" numerous times. The majority of anglers using as you say leads between 2.5 and 3.5 ounces. One mate switched to 5oz leads and hammered it. When he told me I switched the other way to 1oz leads and started converting pick ups to bites. Just a little tweak like that can change your season 

[carpepecheur]

I can only describe what works for me Leonard and what I find easiest to use with confidence. Chacun à son truc as they say around here.