New bait required

[elmoputney]

 I finally found a bait I liked, but sadly retro baits has closed,terrible shame because Nick was always good to me and he did make some cracking baits, but I am starting that cycle of looking for a new bait again 😭

There are blooming loads of baits nowadays and quite frankly it is frying my brain, a few contenders I am considering 

Innovate baits (localish for collection ) 

Baitworks (monster Red) 

Bait guru (jungle mix) 

Blakes baits (milky nut Pro) 

Poacher baits 

Purebaitconcepts amino ester 

Dennis mcfetrich baits (just up the road from me) 

Rollin baits (dark spell)

Needless to say in am getting Confused, particularly interested in innovate tbh if anyone has any experience of them?  

Thanks in advance any advice or recommendations greatly accepted, I would like a bait that works instantly, and ideally suited for short sessions so soluble I guess is a good word, also a good deal is preferable 😂 

 

 

[Golden Paws]

A topic that you can easily go round in circles and you end up confusing yourself! I started off Carp fishing using Mainline's Cell and caught from the off but it was pricier than other shelf lives. Went over to CC Moore and used both the Live System and Pacific Tuna and would happily use it again. My mate I go with seems to catch on Sticky's Krill. Recently I started using Baitworks Creamino after watching some of the video's on You Tube. (Yes I know, an advertisers dream!) I've only used it a couple of times so still early days yet.

If you have a couple of local makers and can collect and chat to the owners, that would probably be a good route to go down. Also it would cut down on postage costs and if you wanted freezer baits, wouldn't have to worry about stuff going off (especially with postal strikes at the moment.)

Go a good runs water with a new bait and get the rod bent a good few times and you won't have to worry about the bait, the rest is down to you.

[salokcinnodrog]

Rollin baits used to make Nutrabaits baits before Bill Cottam sold Nutrabaits.

They have a pretty good reputation, as does MCF.

 

I had a look at the websites of Innovate, Poacher and Blakes, and they look professional. You don't, no matter what Go Daddy or IONOS says, come up with a decent website like that without spending money.

 

I've said it in the past, and unfortunately it has bitten you (and me) in the backside, get a bait firm that will be there long term, no cutting corners or mixes, that will be there in 5 years.

 

Of the companies that you have given, I would be looking at Rollin, Blakes, because they are their own company, with the backing of an animal feed supply, or Poachers baits as I know the name and have been around a good few years.

 

[elmoputney]

Thanks guys, 

I have used blakes a couple of times for pellets and particles and they have always been good, delivery time wise and the products have been good, I would have no concerns with them being reliable either, and I can get 10%off from being a cyp member 

I quite like the idea of innovate baits because they are steamed and they seem to include a lot of good ingredients, 

Dark spell by rollin intrigues me because its made using loads of hydrolysate by products although it's freezer only and I quite fancy having a go with shelf life this year so I can just keep some in the car for baiting up and ease of use etc 

 

[Carpbell3]

The way prices are these days there's only two options for consistency either a good retail you can get anywhere or make your own, sticky, dna, mainline, cc moore that sort of bait.

The small rolling companies are priced out can't run a unit for bait making back to the days of Fred in a shed knocking out a few kilo for themselves.

[Pete Springate's Guns]

On 20/11/2022 at 10:09, elmoputney said:

Thanks guys, 

I have used blakes a couple of times for pellets and particles and they have always been good, delivery time wise and the products have been good, I would have no concerns with them being reliable either, and I can get 10%off from being a cyp member 

I quite like the idea of innovate baits because they are steamed and they seem to include a lot of good ingredients, 

Dark spell by rollin intrigues me because its made using loads of hydrolysate by products although it's freezer only and I quite fancy having a go with shelf life this year so I can just keep some in the car for baiting up and ease of use etc 

 

I’m a Rollin Baits user-very happy with them over the last 3-4 years. My understanding is that The Dark Spell is a summer bait (higher water-temps). I really rate the Game for all year round use though I do also use the Optimum in small amounts during the colder months.

However, if I was stuck with a shelf-life I’d go with Trent Baits, Freshwater Shrimp purely on results and friends recommendation. 

[elmoputney]

22 hours ago, Pete Springate's Guns said:

I’m a Rollin Baits user-very happy with them over the last 3-4 years. My understanding is that The Dark Spell is a summer bait (higher water-temps). I really rate the Game for all year round use though I do also use the Optimum in small amounts during the colder months.

However, if I was stuck with a shelf-life I’d go with Trent Baits, Freshwater Shrimp purely on results and friends recommendation. 

Thanks for the recommendation, I don't have to use a shelf life tbh, it's just for ease really, will take a look at the game again, I did get another recommendation for handcraft baits as well which I had looked at before also, quite like the sound of those too lol, too much choice, I did look at trent baits too I probably would go with them but the only thing is they dont take PayPal, I quite like to bulk buy and then pay it off in installments lol, just means I get a better deal usually and can spread the cost without getting rumbled 😀, and disposable income is fast becoming a thing of the past at the moment 

I did also look at baitworks again  as they have a 20%off sale at the moment 🤯

 

[Pete Springate's Guns]

3 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Thanks for the recommendation, I don't have to use a shelf life tbh, it's just for ease really, will take a look at the game again, I did get another recommendation for handcraft baits as well which I had looked at before also, quite like the sound of those too lol, too much choice, I did look at trent baits too I probably would go with them but the only thing is they dont take PayPal, I quite like to bulk buy and then pay it off in installments lol, just means I get a better deal usually and can spread the cost without getting rumbled 😀, and disposable income is fast becoming a thing of the past at the moment 

I did also look at baitworks again  as they have a 20%off sale at the moment 🤯

 

Yeah, it can be a challenge choosing a new bait. I was in the same situation myself a few years back, considering all the different options…..But once you’ve committed and are happy you can forget about it.

I was sorry to hear that Nick had closed down. Never used Retro but met Nick on the Mangrove years ago-talented angler for sure.

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, Pete Springate's Guns said:

Yeah, it can be a challenge choosing a new bait. I was in the same situation myself a few years back, considering all the different options…..But once you’ve committed and are happy you can forget about it.

I was sorry to hear that Nick had closed down. Never used Retro but met Nick on the Mangrove years ago-talented angler for sure.

Yes was very sad, I just hope it all works out for him, I never met him but had some good chats with him and we shared some ideas and he made me some special concoctions the last bait he made me was going to be our little secret for a while,as we both felt it was a great tweak and a bit special, and it did work too, but yes great angler, he seems to be loving the barbel fishing these days, and he's caught some mahoosive monster chub recently too, 

As for me I'm sure I will find another boilie that will work, but I will miss having the chats and doing the tinkerings , that's the bit I will find hardest to replace, that's what made it that bit special, all his baits I used caught first time out as well, put in the right spot they couldn't resist them, made me look like I knew what I was doing 😀

[elmoputney]

I've been looking at innovate baits again and they have 20% off means I could get 40kg of bait and 2 tubs of smart looking hookbaits for £232, which I think is a bit of a bargain at present, but which one or ones 

Fishmeal vs nut bait, they do some awesome sounding fishmeals tbh, 3 that I could probably use quite happily, 

I'm leaning towards 2 the fix 

The Fix is perhaps the ultimate red fish meal. Containing nearly 40% of various fish meals including solubles and Antarctic Krill, with Oyster shell and Kelp meal to aid digestion, we have given the base mix a kick with a generous helping of Chilli powder and have also used Asafoetida as a natural stimulant. The liquid food and flavour package includes a soluble fish extract and Salmon oil with a lovely Peach flavour and rounded off with a pungent Garlic oil, making it super attractive even in the coldest water.
A firm favourite with some of the guys working in the factory, The Fix certainly has that X factor!q

And  squid 2t

Not much of an introduction needed for the legendary Squid-2T, it was the first steamed carp bait put together by Steve Slater over 14 years ago and to this day is still the most popular in the 365 Range. Still dominating the same waters where it was first introduced back in the day, the Squid-2T has built a reputation as one of the best carp food baits of all time!
It is difficult to put a label on the base mix, however with nearly 20 dry mix ingredients ranging from fish meals including Krill and soluble variants, purified blood powder, Robin Red, WPC, Yeasts and our awesome 3 sweet spice mix with Spirulina which is classed as a super food within itself. The liquid package includes our special Ethyl Squid and Ester Tutti Frutti coupled with a pure Black Pepper oil. Add Minamino to this and you have perhaps the most digestible carp bait available today!

Does anyone actually mix 2 baits regularly or should I just pick 1 the fix and go for it? 

[salokcinnodrog]

2 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Does anyone actually mix 2 baits regularly or should I just pick 1 the fix and go for it? 

I actually mix RH Monster Crab, KMG, and Infusion as my feed. All 3 are good baits. The original idea was to mix them and then use the favourite on the hook  exclusively, but I've caught on all 3 so keep feeding and fishing them.

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I actually mix RH Monster Crab, KMG, and Infusion as my feed. All 3 are good baits. The original idea was to mix them and then use the favourite on the hook  exclusively, but I've caught on all 3 so keep feeding and fishing them.

Thanks,I think I will stay with the pair of them and see what happens, I tend to mix my hookbaits around about a lot anyway it's rare I put them all on the same bait 

[commonly]

I tend to use 2 types of boilies, sometimes different sizes too. Although I have avoided 10mm lately, as the bream seem to like them on my current venue

As you say hook baits are a question of trial and error 

[elmoputney]

12 hours ago, commonly said:

I tend to use 2 types of boilies, sometimes different sizes too. Although I have avoided 10mm lately, as the bream seem to like them on my current venue

As you say hook baits are a question of trial and error 

The rudd would eat 10mm boilies  where I fish, they are like bream on steroids 😀

[Carpbell3]

One thing I have noticed about hook bait rolling is the colour the companies must add a colouring to everything they make most hookbait mixes are a off white colour not at all appealing to the angler.

Where ever I fish this year I'm planning the big feed approach by that I mean a 15 kilo bag of dog muesli per session with a kilo or two of boilie mixed in that O'neals brand looks good.

[newmarket]

3 hours ago, Carpbell3 said:

One thing I have noticed about hook bait rolling is the colour the companies must add a colouring to everything they make most hookbait mixes are a off white colour not at all appealing to the angler.

Where ever I fish this year I'm planning the big feed approach by that I mean a 15 kilo bag of dog muesli per session with a kilo or two of boilie mixed in that O'neals brand looks good.

You’ll be spodding your life away mate

[newmarket]

Actually whilst I’m on the thread , Essential have been doing their boilies , over the weekend, at £5.95 a kilo .

I can’t understand why this company doesn’t appear more popular tbh than it undoubtedly is . 
proven bait over many years .

genuinely puzzled 

Edited November 28, 2022 by newmarket

[framey]

14 minutes ago, newmarket said:

Actually whilst I’m on the thread , Essential have been doing their boilies , over the weekend, at £5.95 a kilo .

I can’t understand why this company doesn’t appear more popular tbh than it undoubtedly is . 
proven bait over many years .

genuinely puzzled 

Because people want to pay £4.95 a kilo lol

Regular price is 10.95 a kilo so that either a great bargain or something has changed in their baits

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, framey said:

Because people want to pay £4.95 a kilo lol

Regular price is 10.95 a kilo so that either a great bargain or something has changed in their baits

 

1 hour ago, newmarket said:

Actually whilst I’m on the thread , Essential have been doing their boilies , over the weekend, at £5.95 a kilo .

I can’t understand why this company doesn’t appear more popular tbh than it undoubtedly is . 
proven bait over many years .

genuinely puzzled 

As @framey says, people want to pay £4.95 over £10.95 a kilo.

Years ago when I was using Nutrabaits, even with a tackle shops staff discount, base mixes were costing me £7.95 a kilo, so add my bits and tweaks bait cost me around £9/10.

Bill Cottam wrote about Hi-Nu-Val costing over £10 a kilo to himself when he first used it. (Behind the Rods, very good book).

I recall a 1.5kg (?) bag of base mix cost £14 retail. 

It wasn't much cheaper to roll your own compared to Trigga and Mainline boilies costing £10.99 per kilo from the freezer!

Now there are so many bait companies, some reputable, some not so, and some big ones aren't always as good as they should/could be, bait prices have come down.

It could be more cheaper ingredients, or it could be cutting quality and cost.

 

The hard part is finding out or knowing which is which.

Not easy when some ingredients have become unavailable or prices have increased.

 

 

 

[elmoputney]

Well I've bitten the bullet and ordered 40kg from innovate baits, bit of a gamble but they do seem to catch some good fish, I had a few messages with them and they seemed decent enough, and I will go and collect it so I can find out some more when I pick it up 

20kg of reaper nut mix +20kg of the fix

Plus some bananarama hell raisers and some chocolate orange pop ups, 

Worked out at £5.56 a Kilo with black Friday discount usually £6.95 if buying 20kg, I don't like to pay above £7 a kilo tbh, so that suits me and should last at least til summer 😳

[commonly]

£7 per K is what I happily pay for Mainline, delivered. 😊

A couple of years ago I was fortunate enough to get A2 for £3 a K!! 

[emmcee]

8 hours ago, framey said:

Because people want to pay £4.95 a kilo lol

Regular price is 10.95 a kilo so that either a great bargain or something has changed in their baits

Would certainly make you think that something has changed wouldn't it. Everything has gone up in cost including all bait ingredients,  the delivery cost on them etc, the import tax on it and yet the price has come down. 🤔

I wonder if catch rates have gone down on it. 

[jh92]

20 hours ago, Carpbell3 said:

One thing I have noticed about hook bait rolling is the colour the companies must add a colouring to everything they make most hookbait mixes are a off white colour not at all appealing to the angler.

Where ever I fish this year I'm planning the big feed approach by that I mean a 15 kilo bag of dog muesli per session with a kilo or two of boilie mixed in that O'neals brand looks good.

Sounds good 😆 the reservoir i fished last I was putting out about 1kg per rod per day 😆 spent a small fortune on bait over a couple months but it was well worth it, i had a really good go this year and had some cracking fish and a new pb 😁

I want to roll bait for next year so looking into getting a motorised roller/air dough gun and industrial mixer. There was a set on Facebook marketplace which was 2 rollers 20mm and 16mm, automatic cutter, a gun and mixer for £1000. Basically fill the gun up and its ready to roll 😂

Tried to get it but it was already sold 😂

[Carpbell3]

I tempted to get a bit of bait rolling equipment problem is I can get carried away and end up overwhelmed.

I don't  care what they say unless they have a massive amount of ingredients that were bought in bulk and are near there best before date no way are any company halfing the price of a good bait other than a one off to clear stock at cost.

Some of the companies that closed did the same cleared as much stock as they could before closing.

Think whacker catcher, a very good bait has got a company to roll the bait so the Ecton Berry should be back for next year, I think they use a fermented elder berry like what essential sell, good attractor.

[elmoputney]

14 hours ago, emmcee said:

Would certainly make you think that something has changed wouldn't it. Everything has gone up in cost including all bait ingredients,  the delivery cost on them etc, the import tax on it and yet the price has come down. 🤔

I wonder if catch rates have gone down on it. 

Having a sale is probably quite a good tactic in getting people to switch to your bait company tbh, a couple of weeks of discounted bait will boost sales get rid of old stock, boost turnover and hopefully get you some new long term customers, if they choose to cut quality then they are probably doing themselves a disservice as they won't be as likely to retain new customers,