Hook sharpening yes or no?

[Choprider]

I normally sharpen my own and check them after each cast, if in any doubt I would then throw them away, I usually put a bit of vaselin on the sharpened points. But recently I have tried Kamakura wide gape hooks, these things are very sharp and I have had carp on them that I could have possibly missed on in sharpened hooks ( I have found these hooks can be damaged very easily ) but after reading this thread I have looked on Johnson Ross tackle website and will probably try their ready sharpened hook..  as it has got to be easier than doing it myself with vice and magnifier... must be getting old 😉

[yonny]

5 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

I did have a thought about the rusting though, most hookbaits are designed to locally change pH with the flavours etc to boost attraction. Most people boost the stinky winky out of hookbaits too, do you think this might make them rust quicker as surely the acids are leaking from the hookbait and adding to the  corrosion? 

That's something I've never considered tbh. I've not struggled with it personally and I've used glugged baits/sharpened hooks extensively.

I do know through experience that water bodies can change pH for periods of the year which is a strange one. I assume it's due to dying plant matter or some other biological event.

[elmoputney]

39 minutes ago, yonny said:

That's something I've never considered tbh. I've not struggled with it personally and I've used glugged baits/sharpened hooks extensively.

I do know through experience that water bodies can change pH for periods of the year which is a strange one. I assume it's due to dying plant matter or some other biological event.

It's only if I dont remember to put wax or anything on the tip they seem to corrode a a lot quicker, 

It just struck me I've listened to loads of carp angler chronicles podcasts and they always Wang on about bait in detail, I guess some must be sinking in 😲 

[yonny]

 

2 hours ago, Choprider said:

 recently I have tried Kamakura wide gape hooks, these things are very sharp and I have had carp on them that I could have possibly missed on in sharpened hooks ( I have found these hooks can be damaged very easily )

The problem with the Kamakuras is they're only sharpened on one plane, opposite the barb, by machine. This gives them a sharp spade tip which is proper lethal but super fragile. The most fragile of the lot, but still awesome in terms of sharpness.

Edited February 19, 2021 by yonny

[Choprider]

11 minutes ago, yonny said:

 

The problem with the Kamakuras is they're only sharpened on one plane, opposite the barb, by machine. This gives them a sharp spade tip which is proper lethal but super fragile. The most fragile of the lot, but still awesome in terms of sharpness.

I agree about the sharpening on the Kamakura hooks, when I finish a trip they get taken off and thrown away.. whether I have had a fish or not as they can come back easily damaged ( bent point ) I quite like the pattern of the wide gape version..  and will try and find something similar on the Johnson Ross website as you recommend earlier in the thread.

[Carpmaster]

47 minutes ago, yonny said:

 

The problem with the Kamakuras is they're only sharpened on one plane, opposite the barb, by machine. This gives them a sharp spade tip which is proper lethal but super fragile. The most fragile of the lot, but still awesome in terms of sharpness.

I luv’d the g- point gamagatsu but you can’t get them anymore if you could I’d go back to them in a flash one of the best hooks I ever used 

[salokcinnodrog]

21 hours ago, ouchthathurt said:

How many of us sharpen our hooks? I have a set of files that I use to touch up my hook points, but I don’t tend to go mad, I use a finishing/polishing file 90% of the time. I check and discard any hook that doesn’t meet my expectations and change my hooks after every fish or every (blank) session anyway, but giving the hook point a “tidy up” makes me confident. I rarely cast a rig out that I’ve not touched up the hook point first. 

Yet with modern chemically sharpened hooks, and the price paid for them, shouldn’t they be sharp enough straight from the packet? 
 

What are your thoughts?

 

We are long past the days of blunt hooks in the pack. 

I have the view that now they should be sharp enough to use straight out of the packet. 

If they are not sharp enough, find another manufacturer that does produce good hooks. 

I have used various makes over the years, Partridge, Owner, Drennan/ESP/Kamasan (Kamatsu), Gardner, Solar and Gamakatsu. 

Back in the 1990's Partridge were my standard hook, Piggybacks, I had no problems, nor with Drennan Super Specialists, and the Super Specialist's were chemically sharpened back then. 

I then made A switch to mega sharp Owner FLB's, they were scary sharp, as were Gamakatsu. 

Shame the GP204's aren't still about!

I'm currently using Kamasan B175's, Solar 101's, Gardner Muggas, and Mystic VMC's. The VMC's hold their points and are very sharp as are the other hooks I use. 

 

Of all the hooks, I will not use Korda, I found they didn't hold a point, and the Kurv's were not sharp enough. 

If a manufacturer's product isn't good enough I won't use them. 

 

[ouchthathurt]

My go to curve type pattern is the Nash fang x pattern, they are sharp out of the packet and I just give the points a polish rather than trying to sharpen the granny out of them, I do worry about making the points more brittle. I have used the Korda kurves in size 4 for Ronnie rigs, but regardless of wether I catch on them or not, they are discarded at the end of each session as I’ve noticed that they don’t hold a point either. I’ve not tried the kamakura sharpened patterns, so I couldn’t comment on those patterns. 

[Carpmaster]

12 minutes ago, ouchthathurt said:

My go to curve type pattern is the Nash fang x pattern, they are sharp out of the packet and I just give the points a polish rather than trying to sharpen the granny out of them, I do worry about making the points more brittle. I have used the Korda kurves in size 4 for Ronnie rigs, but regardless of wether I catch on them or not, they are discarded at the end of each session as I’ve noticed that they don’t hold a point either. I’ve not tried the kamakura sharpened patterns, so I couldn’t comment on those patterns. 

I head someone methionine a talon tip a while ago on here can’t remember by who now I used them for a very short spell on a few different rigs an found they caused a little more mouth damage than normal has anyone used these or thoughts guys

[yonny]

4 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

We are long past the days of blunt hooks in the pack. 

That depends on what your idea of sharp is. Imo chemically sharpened hooks are blunt. All of them.

[emmcee]

Well since my venture into sea fishing over the last 3 years I've stumbled across various hooks and patterns from makes I'd not heard of. One particular brand do a chod style hook and it's the sharpest hook I've ever got straight of a packet and at £2-45 for 10 they are cheap as chips. No carp tax on these. I've just got to use them carp fishing now 😂

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by emmcee

[elmoputney]

Dunno if I've just had a wobble but, I've decided to maybe just try to use a multi rig for pop ups and wafters and bottom baits, it's a multi rig lol it was designed to do them all, I decided tonight to try a curve shank hook rather than the square ones, I could use the finer shrink tube and it looked like it had a little more finesse about it, 

I also decided I think I prefer pre sharpened hooks, I sharpened a few and was never totally happy with them,the pre done ones were better, I might order some J precision curves and maybe a pack of longshank curves to try also, a lot of people seem to rate his hooks so worth a try I think, 

[yonny]

42 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

J precision curves

They're decent mate. Jason Haywards Muggas are better but also more expensive. No sure why Korda don't do a Kamakura version of their Kurv pattern. The Krank is the closest they currently do to a curve shank.

44 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

longshank curves

Also decent. I used these extensively for a while. No good for a multi though imo. Handy for a ronnie/spinner type set up (replaces a 360 rig nicely).

Have anther look at this if you're set on using pre-sharpened:

 

[emmcee]

2 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Dunno if I've just had a wobble but, I've decided to maybe just try to use a multi rig for pop ups and wafters and bottom baits, it's a multi rig lol it was designed to do them all, I decided tonight to try a curve shank hook rather than the square ones, I could use the finer shrink tube and it looked like it had a little more finesse about it, 

I also decided I think I prefer pre sharpened hooks, I sharpened a few and was never totally happy with them,the pre done ones were better, I might order some J precision curves and maybe a pack of longshank curves to try also, a lot of people seem to rate his hooks so worth a try I think, 

A mate of mine told me to use the curve shank with the multi rig years ago and in my opinion it's a game changer. Had a few hook pulls with chod style hooks on the multi but changing to curve shanks I've had no problems.  A few of my other mates now use this hook pattern  and don't suffer hook pulls either with this rig. 

[elmoputney]

4 hours ago, yonny said:

They're decent mate. Jason Haywards Muggas are better but also more expensive. No sure why Korda don't do a Kamakura version of their Kurv pattern. The Krank is the closest they currently do to a curve shank.

Also decent. I used these extensively for a while. No good for a multi though imo. Handy for a ronnie/spinner type set up (replaces a 360 rig nicely).

Have anther look at this if you're set on using pre-sharpened:

 

Brilliant thanks for that, I have read it a few times, 

I'm still only just getting comfortable paying over a fiver a pack of hooks I'm not ready for Jason Hayward prices yet 😁 otherwise I probably would use them, baby steps lol, 

I do think the ib hooks I've had so far have been pretty good tbh they are sharp, I don't like the coating on the hooks though, I dunno they feel cheap,I bought some unsharpened ones too and they don't sharpen very well, 

I've ordered some size 5 chods, size 5 curves x 2 and a pack of long shank curves in size 6, I am also not sure the longshank curves will be ideal but I use shrink tube on my multi rigs and strip the loop completely of coating, so I am hoping that it may act a bit like a blow back rig also, but having tried a curve it didn't make much difference to the rig as a pop up, still sits the same with a similar stance but it looks more subtle and a bit less shark hook like 😳😬 and would work as a wafter rig too 

 

[elmoputney]

I got my J precision hooks last week, been having a little play tonight, they are pretty blooming sharp tbh, he seems to take a lot less off them than some but gives them a nice long point, much better than I do myself I think 👍

Top one is a size 6 curved  long shank, bottom is a size 5 curved, I could use both happily cos they don't actually seem much different 😁

[salokcinnodrog]

On 19/02/2021 at 11:55, emmcee said:

I used to sharpen them but I hadn't noticed that I had  any more or less fish on the bank than before. There was no difference in hook pulls, you always get one for one reason  or the other so now I just them straight out the packet. Before it was fashionable to sharpen hooks I'd use the same one/rig for a whole weekend and often had multiple catches with the same hook so who knows 

I did go through a stage of touching up hooks, and honestly found it made no difference. Now I don't even touch up pike singles or treble hooks, blunt or turned point on hook change trace or hook link. 

Waters I fish I seem to turn points over on underwater features, branches, mussels, concrete. Nothing more annoying than feeling a freshly sharpened hook down, knowing it has not gone right and reeling in a turned over hook. 

I've mentioned it in the past about one rig catching a 26 at Merrington during a carp.com social. That same rig caught more fish, think it was another 5 at Hintlesham, until I turned the point overcasting and finding a tree. 

The strange thing, if you get the same pattern in barbed and barbless, the barbed appears to the naked eye, more blunt than barbless. It is normally an illusion. What stops hooks penetrating is the barb, exactly what holds it in place. Take the barb down and penetration is improved. 

That is something I used to do on many Owner FLB's, the barb on some was brutal. 

 

 

[Dicky123]

I've found recently most of my fish lose the hook in the net, I'm on barbless and have been for 20 years now. I do sharpen my hooks nowadays so wonder if those fish would have come off, or maybe the hook is too sharp, OR IT COULD JUST BE SLACK LINE?  While I'm not losing fish I'll stick with what I'm doing. Going down to a small hook has helped me catch more fish recently. I still think most hooks are far too heavy in the wire, unless your fishing places like French rivers and such. JMO.

[Dicky123]

On 07/03/2021 at 08:10, salokcinnodrog said:

I did go through a stage of touching up hooks, and honestly found it made no difference. Now I don't even touch up pike singles or treble hooks, blunt or turned point on hook change trace or hook link. 

Waters I fish I seem to turn points over on underwater features, branches, mussels, concrete. Nothing more annoying than feeling a freshly sharpened hook down, knowing it has not gone right and reeling in a turned over hook. 

I've mentioned it in the past about one rig catching a 26 at Merrington during a carp.com social. That same rig caught more fish, think it was another 5 at Hintlesham, until I turned the point overcasting and finding a tree. 

The strange thing, if you get the same pattern in barbed and barbless, the barbed appears to the naked eye, more blunt than barbless. It is normally an illusion. What stops hooks penetrating is the barb, exactly what holds it in place. Take the barb down and penetration is improved. 

That is something I used to do on many Owner FLB's, the barb on some was brutal. 

 

 

Agreed barbless hooks are better for penetration and the fish. 

[salokcinnodrog]

1 minute ago, Dicky123 said:

Agreed barbless hooks are better for penetration and the fish. 

I'm not going to get into the barbed vs barbless debate, but on the barbless waters I have fished, the mouths are more damaged😉

[Golden Paws]

On my local lake there was a barbed ban for many years and some of the fish are a bit "gummy". A micro barb will go in and stay put during the fight and even the idiots on my local Committee seem to have got the message as they have revoked the barbless rule.

[Dicky123]

I've thought about this a long time now and this is what I do now. As hooks (good hooks) are so expensive in reality like£5 for 10 is not the waste, but having to buy several packets at one time in different sizes, it gets costly. So I test every hook now out of the packet on my nail, if it sticks I fish it like it is, and most are, for me thats sharp enough.  After a days fishing if it's still on the rig, I will do my test again, and only then resharpen if its fails. I will dump the hook after a few fish anyway, sharp or not.

Another thought?  I put up a post a while ago about the thickness of hooks, I stated I thought some hooks were way to thick and could land a whale. I still stand by that, and hooks like the Nash range feature hooks that you can cast on their own, so heavy they are. I now stick with a maker that has the best of both worlds, a light gage, but strong. The Korda Wide gapes are just right for me, and have landed me some good fish in harsh conditions. If a hooks extra heavy then you have to sharpen them more often and use rigs that combat the weight of the hook all the time, that seems crazy to me. Your better with a light hook, a hook-link and nothing much else between you and the fish, but thats just my own way of fishing, old school. Plenty of the match guys I know, land big carp on size 18 and 16s hooks (Guru are popular) on method feeders and such. If you fish for carp under 30lb, I see these big hooks as more a hindrance than a benefit, but JMHO. A size 10 hook is about as big as I go nowadays, but my fish only run up to 20lb+much smaller than some other anglers I know. But I also fish a water with 40s and a 50 and I change very little, small hooks and a hook-link only on the line. Keep it simple with a little between me and the fish. Hope all you guy are enjoying you fishing now, best wishes all.