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They will almost certainly be amongst the heaviest weed during the day Andy. That weed will be pumping out oxygen all day and, with warmer water able to hold less oxygen, the fish will likely be there to take advantage of that. When the sun goes down they'll head out to feed. Where that will be will be completely different from water to water. When the weather is at it's warmest I don't particularly rate the shallowest water (that is a very general statement I realise and cannot ring true for every water!!). Shallow water is often used when the carp are chasing the temperatures so earlier and later in the year the shallows can be unbeatable in warmer weather. However, this time of the year, when the whole lake is luke warm like a bath, they don't need to chase those temperatures. Rather they will chase the oxygen during the day and the food at night. This time of year I always make an effort to get up in the night and scope the lake out. They can feed a long way away from where they hang out during the day.

I have been reading this thread and over the last couple of days ,and racking my brain as to why I would use rods shorter than 12 foot , and can honestly say I never would and have never had the need , yes I have fished tight swims as with most us ,but cannot think for the life of me that I thought my rods may have been to long . I personally think their has been some great marketing out their to make the short rods the must have thing.

We need to bear in mind that many (most?) anglers will only have one set of rods and reels to cover all the waters they fish, small or massive. So if we can have one reel that can fish under the tip and cast a million miles we need big pits. Same with the rods, a 12 footer can fish under the tip or at 150 yards. A 9 ft rod cannot do that. I agree that in an ideal world we use the right tool for the job but not everyone has the luxury of owning several sets. I have multiple sets but they're all 12 and 13 footers. I do have different size reels though.

Likewise. In 20 years + I've never come across a spot that requires shorter rods. Guess we're lucky lol.

Yes mate - I use the Devils Dung & Cheese pop ups from Proper Job Pop Ups. They're a liver/glm base with asafoetida EO, blue cheese flavour, and butyric acid (you can imagine what they smell like lol). I tend to use them over naturals and/or pellets rather than over boiled bait. Really good pop ups, stink to high heaven and silly buoyant. Caught loads on them.

Any business wants to find a way to fill a particular gap in the market though, that's just business, for me there is a benefit to using 10ft over 12 so I am glad they did 😁 While everyone always knocks the industry they have some blooming good ideas to make our life on the bank better and there are some great things out there, and in my opinion it's better than ever for getting the right kit for the right situation

The fact of the matter is that you can do pretty much everything you want (within reason) using either 10', 11' or 12' rods. People are changing their 12's for 10's for no real advantage in most cases. Personally I think one of the most overlooked aspects is for years practically everybody had a set of 12' rods and the tackle barons noticed this and decided to open up a whole huge market in trying to sell us something hardly any of us had and labelled them 'must haves'. The boom in rod sales must have been enormous, and of course we all 'need' an appropriate set of reels too. Cynic, me? perhaps a little 😉

I blame Alan Blair LOL,. The waters I'm fishing at the moment mean i use my 11 or 12 ft rods . As others have said I do see a use for shorter rods but not as all rounders , but its fashion same as using big pit reels for everything .

I left a tub accidently open in my bag in the car the other week and left them in there for a day or so before I went back who needs a magic tree air freshener when you have scent from hell I had to leave the windows open for a while though 😂

I'm more than happy with my 10 footers, even with a 6000 size baitrunner on fluro mainline and a 2 oz lead i can cast the length of a football pitch, the park pitches are full size so that's between 90m-120m, if i was to use a larger reel with a casting line and 3oz lead i bet i could easily hit a bit better than that. My 12 foot rods were a cheap set in comparison, but i have always felt a 12 foot rod was the wrong size for me.

I could count on one hand the people I hate , there's people I don't like though . I've never met Alan Blair (so can't form an opinion) , all I would say is I don't think the direction he has/is taking carp fishing is good ,but that's just my opinion . As for manicured swims in 20 yrs time it will probably be the opposite with clubs struggling to find members and holding onto waters . As long as you or any individual is happy with short rods then happy days , its just they are not really the all rounders that the marketing men have us believe .

I wanted a small telescopic rod to take on holiday a few years ago. The tackle shop only had a 5 piece 6 ft shimano tribal one. Comes in a small tube. Absolutely brilliant bit of kit, I can leave a section out and have it down to 5 ft. I keep it in the van with a a 2 piece landing net and stalking bag. I can get in under overhangs that would be impossible, even with a 10 ft rod. Only thing is I just don't get the chance to use it😒

Thanks very much , Yonny and Framey . The weed in the shallows was removed after the carp had spawned and the fry hatched and dispersed , so I guess I'll focus my attention on the far margins with the overhanging trees and the dam end .

PFFFFFFFFFFFF your just not urban enough

times ive been in a tight swim and found it a bit hard to cast ive just put my waders on and waded out a little

Anywhere they have overhanging cover will work.

I thought that was mainly butyric but it wouldn't surprise me mate.

wow I'm holding my nose just thinking about the smell

Isn't it asifetito (devil's dung😁) in those scent from hell pop ups as well? And of all the pop ups I own why is always those I slightly leave the lid off and or knock over provably losing one or two in the deepest recess of my garage/bivvy/bag😂😂

Never said i wasn't happy about option being available !!!

That explains why, when I asked the guy in the shop to recommend some reels to replace my broken ones, he showed me something that looked like the winch from the front of a Land Rover despite me telling him they were for small to medium lakes 😅

I'd love a couple of 6's, 9's, 10,s and maybe 13's coz they all have a place. I used my 12's for stalking and didn't really struggle or think at the time if only they were shorter, I had never seen anyone using shorter rods back then. I have however since seen situations where the 6's or 9's were needed in at least 3lb or higher TC for stalking out of trees and such like and wish I had some. My mate stalked a 66lb mirror from under a tree on hols and to say a shorter rod would have come in handy is an understatement, what a struggle, we asked everywhere for a 9ft rod and no joy. Theres deffo a market for shorter rod sets, but I'd question anyone buying them as a fashion or thinking they are the normal all rounder.

Your right mate. Tools for different applications. I have a few sets of 12fts, a set of 10’s, 9’s and 6fts. I use all of them! Not at the same time mind 😂 The 10’s are probably my most used length. I can get around 110yards out of them. Anything more, then I have to go back to the torrix 12ft 3 1/4. There’s not many lakes that I fish at the moment where I need that extra distance though. On the fish playing front, I find the 10’s have more holding power than any of my 12’s although not much in it for it to be a deciding factor. Fashion..... when I started fishing, all those years ago, all the specimin rods were 10 or 11 ft, until it became fashion to have 12 footers, then 13’s. At the end of the day, everyone should buy and use what suits their own situation best. If I could only afford one set of rods, for what I do at the moment, the 10footers would be my choice. 5 years ago, when I was fishing a much bigger lake and also still doing a bit on horseshoe, it would have been 12 foot rods. Funny thing is, I can cast further with my 12ft rods than I did using Terry Edmonds’ 13 footers on our tutorials we had (using the same reel, swapped over to both rods). I may have got further with them if I used them regularly. I’m only knee high to an ewok though so that might have something to do with it. Phil can blast his 13 footers further than his 12’s. It’s not so much being able to compress the blanks but having a larger arc. This increases the lead speed, which is what ultimately loads the rods. There’s so much more to casting than what rods we use. I would guess 90% technique and 10% equipment (as long as it’s a decent rod)

I'm considering buying a couple of short rods but for stalking ONLY. I'd never use those for my general fishing IMO 12 to 13ft rods are better for casting, playing and getting them out of weedbeds. One member on my previous syndicate bought the Scopes for fashion purposes only. He said to me he massively regretted it because he was hopelessly under gunned for the water and he lost fish because of them, weeded up - no backbone no length.

I know a dave from only fools and horses better known as Rodney 😂