Otters

[crusian]

Hi Everyone

I need some advice please .

I discovered a half eaten scraper double Carp down my club lake which was about 10ft. from the waters' edge in a quiet spot .

If an otter / otters has / have been in my  lake do they eat some Carp and move on , or do they eat the lot ? .

My club has regular matches , so if the silver fish are still coming out is that a good sign that any otters have moved on ? .

Thanks .

 

[bluelabel]

It may not be an otter... it could be a mink they have been known to take carp too

[crusian]

1 minute ago, bluelabel said:

It may not be an otter... it could be a mink they have been known to take carp too

Hi Blue

So would a Mink be strong enough to drag a Carp of around 10lbs out of the water and away from the waters' edge ? .

[emmcee]

It could just be a fish has died and a fox has dragged it out the lake after its washed up in to margins.  You start seeing numbers of partially eaten fish then you'll have a problem I'd say. 

[Golden Paws]

I found a half eaten Carp of about 4lb on my local club water a few years ago. I took a photo and sent it to the Club Chairman. He contacted me and told me that they had set some mink traps on a nearby private water which are basically cages filled with dead fish that they can get in easily but not out and they drown. I don't think otters would resist it either!

I wouldn't rule out foxes, any dead fish that washes up in the margins would be easy pickings.

Unfortunately otters tend to go for bigger fish and then often only eat the throat area and leave the rest. The fact that the silvers seem OK doesn't mean all is well.

I would contact the Club and report what you found as you can legally trap and release otters if they are causing a problem.

[salokcinnodrog]

10 hours ago, crusian said:

Hi Everyone

I need some advice please .

I discovered a half eaten scraper double Carp down my club lake which was about 10ft. from the waters' edge in a quiet spot .

If an otter / otters has / have been in my  lake do they eat some Carp and move on , or do they eat the lot ? .

My club has regular matches , so if the silver fish are still coming out is that a good sign that any otters have moved on ? .

Thanks .

 

I would be worried!

Most of the time, a fish corpse will last no more than 48 hours on the bank; foxes, crows, rats will eat it. Only otters and foxes are strong enough drag the body up the bank.

 

Otters have different types of 'patrol' or ranges. A dog otter may move around his territory, river to lake, over into female territories,  whereas a female with cubs is likely to stay put. They will take the available food source, so if fish are within reach they will take them. They will also take coots, moorhens, and I have seen them take greylag geese and a year old Swan.

 

Just because you still have silver fish does not mean the otters have moved on. In fact if you have loads of silvers it could be a sign that the bigger fish are not there; perch and pike will munch on silvers, the ill, slow and dying, and keep excess numbers down.

[elmoputney]

One thing I've noticed with otters is that whenever they are around there are usually zebra mussel shells lying about all over thr place, as like most people they want an easy meal so they usually go for these when they are available 

[crusian]

Thanks very much everyone for your helpful advice .

There is a Mink Trap at the lake , but I'm hoping that it is a Fox responsible after the Carp had died and floated into the margins .

I have seen Swan Mussel shells around 1-2 ft. above the water line occasionally .

The corpse had the head intact , and from roughly the middle down to the tail untouched , it was the section in between that had been stripped of skin / scales to expose the flesh .

So fingers crossed , and hopefully I don't stumble across any more corpses .

🤞

 

[salokcinnodrog]

3 hours ago, crusian said:

Thanks very much everyone for your helpful advice .

There is a Mink Trap at the lake , but I'm hoping that it is a Fox responsible after the Carp had died and floated into the margins .

I have seen Swan Mussel shells around 1-2 ft. above the water line occasionally .

The corpse had the head intact , and from roughly the middle down to the tail untouched , it was the section in between that had been stripped of skin / scales to expose the flesh .

So fingers crossed , and hopefully I don't stumble across any more corpses .

🤞

 

The Swan mussel shells above the water line are a big giveaway, along with the way the corpse was left. 

Extremely likely to be an otter about!

We discovered on my syndicate that the coots were going missing, numbers of their claws left in the field, no other remains. 

In the end a couple of us actually saw the darn thing, both during the day. Spraints weren't obvious, the long grass, sheep and out of bounds area meant we probably missed them until we saw the otter definitely. 

 

[yonny]

18 hours ago, crusian said:

The corpse had the head intact , and from roughly the middle down to the tail untouched

That defo sounds like an otter to me.

Imo there's no way a mink will take a double. A single yes, but not a double.

A fox would eat the whole thing.

Your description of the kill screams otter to me. They tend to go for the really nutritious stuff (e.g. liver, heart, kidneys) which leaves the corpse looking just as you've described.

On 13/11/2021 at 21:09, crusian said:

If an otter / otters has / have been in my  lake do they eat some Carp and move on , or do they eat the lot ? .

Could go either way. If it's a small water they/it could well stick around for easy pickings. I'd assume it's a dog otter doing the rounds and it could come back and empty the place but not necessarily.

All you can do is keep your eyes open and think about a fence.

[bluelabel]

On 13/11/2021 at 22:08, crusian said:

Hi Blue

So would a Mink be strong enough to drag a Carp of around 10lbs out of the water and away from the waters' edge ? .

I'd say its possible... a lot of carp damage gets attributed to Otters when it fact its the Mink doing the damage... not defending otters, just adding another possible culprit to the mix

[kevtaylor]

7 hours ago, yonny said:

That defo sounds like an otter to me.

Imo there's no way a mink will take a double. A single yes, but not a double.

A fox would eat the whole thing.

Your description of the kill screams otter to me. They tend to go for the really nutritious stuff (e.g. liver, heart, kidneys) which leaves the corpse looking just as you've described.

Could go either way. If it's a small water they/it could well stick around for easy pickings. I'd assume it's a dog otter doing the rounds and it could come back and empty the place but not necessarily.

All you can do is keep your eyes open and think about a fence.

I'd agree with this - sounds like an otter unfortunately.

I was on one of the busiest waters in the country a few weeks back on a full lake, had to call the bailiff first night as an otter swim past my rod tips at dusk, spent the next 3 nights on watch.

Whilst I didn't see him second night the Coots gave his presence away by calling out to one another in turn around the lake - then the next lake and so on until I had a 360 degree chorus.  It was a real Terry Hearn and the Fox and Pheasants moment.

These hand reared otters have zero fear of humans, every swim is taken, many anglers have dogs yet here he is bold as brass!

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by kevtaylor

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, kevtaylor said:

I'd agree with this - sounds like an otter unfortunately.

I was on one of the busiest waters in the country a few weeks back on a full lake, had to call the bailiff first night as an otter swim past my rod tips at dusk, spent the next 3 nights on watch.

Whilst I didn't see him second night the Coots gave his presence away by calling out to one another in turn around the lake - then the next lake and so on until I had a 360 degree chorus.  It was a real Terry Hearn and the Fox and Pheasants moment.

These hand reared otters have zero fear of humans, every swim is taken, many anglers have dogs yet here he is bold as brass!

 

The coots definitely tell you when there is an otter about, and otters will get a few of them. 

It was the bird life disappearing that gave away the presence of an otter on a local club water. No dead fish were found, but the moorhens and coots disappeared. The water is now fenced and the public footpath alongside the water has auto shut gates to keep otters out. Sadly the otters have been on the big chub instead. 

I've had Sky rip her lead peg out of the ground when there is an otter on the bank near me, she wants it! She slipped her lead one day, took 45mins to get her back, she followed the otter to the island and didn't come back until she chased it off there. 

[kevtaylor]

Like it - can I borrow your dog mine would run the other way lol

It was amazing hearing the Coot alarm calls sounding around the lakes  - I will remember that for a long time.  I think 99% of  the anglers around the lake were completely unaware.

[crusian]

Many thanks for all your help , everyone .

Later this week I hope to visit the lake again , and have a mooch around the far ( out of bounds ) margins to see if there are any more corpses - hopefully not .

😔

[elmoputney]

6 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

I'd agree with this - sounds like an otter unfortunately.

I was on one of the busiest waters in the country a few weeks back on a full lake, had to call the bailiff first night as an otter swim past my rod tips at dusk, spent the next 3 nights on watch.

Whilst I didn't see him second night the Coots gave his presence away by calling out to one another in turn around the lake - then the next lake and so on until I had a 360 degree chorus.  It was a real Terry Hearn and the Fox and Pheasants moment.

These hand reared otters have zero fear of humans, every swim is taken, many anglers have dogs yet here he is bold as brass!

 

I had an otter give me a savage liner on St Ives, swam through with no fear then just went underwater never to be seen again once it clocked me, I found lots of evidence on there though a dead pike, loads of zebra mussels all over the bank,

I seemed to think there didn't seem as many birds on the lake I am fishing now earlier this year, but last time I thought there were more so I will keep an eye on them this winter see if they dwindle again, that could be the duck eating catfish I've heard about though 😬

[chillfactor]

Always ,  this time of year they start concentrating more on still waters . Sorry to hear you have them about . I know all to well the damage they do . This winter could see  all the decent fish gone depending on numbers & lake size . Not good mate !!! 

[Carpbell_ll]

sure a local country park near to me has had Otters on all the cygnets got killed by summer this year they blamed dogs even though no one seen a dog attacking a swan let alone on a number of different days, when the local rag ran the story they had a load of pro Otter types commenting about hearing a dog attacking something but not being able to see it, yeah right. the people that go up there are proper it's too rural for the kind of dog walkers that let the dog kill swans.  Covering up for Otters, i like the Otters as i bet most anglers do they are also in the book of Kells the closest thing Britain has to a indigenous religion, so they are not hated by anyone, think it's time for honesty all round at some point they will need to work out what are the best numbers for our waterways, they will be as common as rats soon.  

[crusian]

Hello Everyone , I'm back again ! .

So today , 10 weeks  from when I discovered the first Carp carcass I think I've found another in the same area ; it was muddy ( from being dragged ? ) so I couldn't positively identify it .

My question is please , could that be the same dead Carp that I saw in Nov. , or would that have rotted away / been eaten by rats , foxes etc , and reduced to bare bones by now ? .

Ta 

😃

[elmoputney]

59 minutes ago, crusian said:

Hello Everyone , I'm back again ! .

So today , 10 weeks  from when I discovered the first Carp carcass I think I've found another in the same area ; it was muddy ( from being dragged ? ) so I couldn't positively identify it .

My question is please , could that be the same dead Carp that I saw in Nov. , or would that have rotted away / been eaten by rats , foxes etc , and reduced to bare bones by now ? .

Ta 

😃

It may have frozen due to it being winter and that may have preserved it, but rats and stuff will take easy meals so it's probably a different one I would say 

[yonny]

12 hours ago, crusian said:

could that be the same dead Carp that I saw in Nov

Very unlikely imo. They rarely last a couple of nights on the bank. Foxes and rats will have those bones cleaned up in no time.

[salokcinnodrog]

13 hours ago, crusian said:

Hello Everyone , I'm back again ! .

So today , 10 weeks  from when I discovered the first Carp carcass I think I've found another in the same area ; it was muddy ( from being dragged ? ) so I couldn't positively identify it .

My question is please , could that be the same dead Carp that I saw in Nov. , or would that have rotted away / been eaten by rats , foxes etc , and reduced to bare bones by now ? .

Ta 

😃

Crows, foxes etc will have likely cleaned up the original carcass, so I think it is a fresh one. 

Even though it has not rained heavily or at all in East Anglia since the New Year, the dew point means the ground is still wet and muddy.

It looks like either the carp are shoaled up in an area on the lakebed (quite probable in winter), or the spot is the otters preferred eating spot, both are possible.

 

[kevtaylor]

I agree with the others, new kill.  Fence the lake or this is the future!  Sad times 

[crusian]

10 hours ago, yonny said:

Very unlikely imo. They rarely last a couple of nights on the bank. Foxes and rats will have those bones cleaned up in no time.

 

9 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Crows, foxes etc will have likely cleaned up the original carcass, so I think it is a fresh one. 

Even though it has not rained heavily or at all in East Anglia since the New Year, the dew point means the ground is still wet and muddy.

It looks like either the carp are shoaled up in an area on the lakebed (quite probable in winter), or the spot is the otters preferred eating spot, both are possible.

 

Thanks for your help , fellas .

I was just clutching at straws that the carcass wasn't a fresh kill .

I'll just have to wait until Spring when the Carp are more active / visible to get an idea of how much damage the otter(s) has / have done . I enjoy fishing this lake , but I may well have to find a different venue .

😭

6 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

I agree with the others, new kill.  Fence the lake or this is the future!  Sad times 

 

[salokcinnodrog]

18 hours ago, crusian said:

 

Thanks for your help , fellas .

I was just clutching at straws that the carcass wasn't a fresh kill .

I'll just have to wait until Spring when the Carp are more active / visible to get an idea of how much damage the otter(s) has / have done . I enjoy fishing this lake , but I may well have to find a different venue .

😭

 

 

On 25/01/2022 at 12:30, kevtaylor said:

I agree with the others, new kill.  Fence the lake or this is the future!  Sad times 

Sadly fencing is the best way or even only way forward to keep otters out. 

Unfortunately this can prevent the other natural wildlife getting in as well. 

Until last year I had never seen an otter attack on a Swan, although I had heard of it. The otter attacks the neck to kill it. Other birds are also prey, from ducks and ducklings, coots, anything they can catch.