How to hit that big cast?

[pablo7uk]

Hi guys

I've done a couple of sessions lately on larger venues that I've probably ever fished. On both occasions I either got told of a good spot that was a huge Chuck or could see a good spot (fallen tree on far bank). 

When I say a big cast I'm meaning in the region of 20-23 wraps. 

I've been JUST about able to reach the clip after a few attempts. Main issue though is that there is a big bow in the line because it wasn't a strong hit on the clip.

Question is what can I do to make this easier without major changes to rods, line and reels? Current set up as follows;

3lb TC 12ft rods

20lb Gardner hydrotuff mono mainline 

Daiwa big pit style reels filled to the lip

Rig tubing, lead clip, 2.5oz flat pear gripper lead. 

No pva bag etc

 

 

Thanks, Paul

 

 

 

 

 

[elmoputney]

Change leads to 3.5oz that should be all you need, maybe change to a distance or dumpy distance lead as well 

[B B]

Yep 3-3.5 distance lead will do it 

[bluelabel]

I'd drop the mainline to 15lb too... too thick a line diameter will certainly hinder casting distance

[Carpbell_ll]

make sure your clips are up to the job very few sub 200 pound reels could hit the clip at that distance an still drop your rig on the spot neatly, you will need to slow that line down before it hits the clip, the bow in the line comes from a cross wind, casting to fallen trees will also be a real problem at distance due to the line bowing, you would need to cast past the spot giving you some room to take the bow out the line, long distance casting is one thing getting it right is a art form in itself.  fair play to you for going down that route sounds like the kind of water that a baitboat would not look wrong.

i never fish large waters so that's more how i see it than factual, there are some very good long distance anglers on the site, they can be a bit elitists but if you plug away the best you can you may get some advice worth listening to. 

[pablo7uk]

Thanks everyone, I've had some 3.5oz Heli style leads just arrive so I'll be giving them a go moving forward. I've always shyed away from larger leads as until recently I only had 2.75tc rods. 

My reels are daiwa emblem 35 scw 5000c qd so they aren't cheap and I like to think they should be up to the job.

The Gardner line is 0.41mm if I remember right, it's actually finer than the 15lb Fox soft steel I used to have on my old reels.

[elmoputney]

Someone will know this correctly but I believe 3.5oz is about the correct size lead for a 3lb tc rod to help compress it fully, I read it somewhere I'm sure 📖😁

[pablo7uk]

Spot on

[ouchthathurt]

When casting distance, with 12ft 3lb t/c rods I use 3.5oz leads, to be honest, I use 3.5oz regardless of range! Even under the tips I use 3.5oz leads. 

[elmoputney]

45 minutes ago, ouchthathurt said:

When casting distance, with 12ft 3lb t/c rods I use 3.5oz leads, to be honest, I use 3.5oz regardless of range! Even under the tips I use 3.5oz leads. 

So do I pretty much if It aint broke 😂 

[...]

https://www.soniksports.com/the-sonik-blog/which-test-curve-carp-rod-you-should-choose/

Was a good read last night... 

[bluelabel]

2 hours ago, Highy said:

https://www.soniksports.com/the-sonik-blog/which-test-curve-carp-rod-you-should-choose/

Was a good read last night... 

Sorry, but I think Mr Warwick is at odds with other anglers, inasmuch guys like Ali Hamidi advocate a 2.75lb rod as a good starting point... his comment on the different actions is valid though... there is a world of difference between actions... I once had 2 sets of 2.75lb rods, one for close in (Fox Warriors) and one for punching a bait out (Shimano Hyperloop FA'S) the letters FA stood for fast action which meant they were a casting tool. The Hyperloops could certainly outcast the Warriors, but I preferred the Warriors for playing fish on, as the Hyperloops felt poker stiff in the middle, with only the last 3rd of the rod having any playing action...

All this said my Dwarfs are 9' 2.75lb and are a delight to play fish on,  but are limited to about 70-80 yards max with me casting them... My 9'6" Sharpe cane rods are only approx 2lb to 2.5lb but have a much faster taper and easily hit the same distance due to the extra 6" and the stiffer mid section 

[pablo7uk]

Thanks all, well the rods have only recently been upgraded so there won't be any changes there haha. I've just got some 3.5oz Heli leads so looks like I'll be upgrading the rest of my leads haha I feel like I can't stop buying new kit lately! I must admit though I always felt like 2.5oz (my go to) was lighter than I would like but my old rods didn't feel right with anything heavier.

[ouchthathurt]

I use 12ft fox torque rods in 3lb t/c with fox EOS 12000 reels, I use the heli leads 90% of the time, when fishing at long distance at shearwater, if needed I would step up to a 4oz heli lead if required, however I would advise a bit of caution here, I snapped two rods under full compression going for a big chuck. (Those rods weren’t fox torque but another well known brand) the 3.5oz leads with a 3lb t/c are capable of distance in the right hands, as with anything, practice makes perfect. Just ensure that you make sure that there is no one opposite you that could be at risk in the event of a crack off, a heavy lead without line attached will travel a long long way! Check the tip ring and butt ring for tangles or “frap ups” (where the line wraps itself around the tip eye) and ensure the line is free to travel, check the bail arm is fully locked open and clear and you’ve got a good firm stable stance, then work your way up to it. If I’m going for 110yrd casts, I like to “warm up the carbon” by having a few 80-90yrd casts to bed the line and get it nice and wet before blasting the big un. With correct modern tackle, distance casting is achievable, it’s all down to technique and practice. 

[pablo7uk]

Thanks for the advice that's really helpful and certainly some things to keep in mind. I'm fortunate that my club water has no fishing on the opposite bank on both lakes so the only worry would be for any unfortunate ducks in the event of a break off haha looking forward to giving some heavier leads a go now

[salokcinnodrog]

On 15/05/2021 at 22:58, pablo7uk said:

Hi guys

I've done a couple of sessions lately on larger venues that I've probably ever fished. On both occasions I either got told of a good spot that was a huge Chuck or could see a good spot (fallen tree on far bank). 

When I say a big cast I'm meaning in the region of 20-23 wraps. 

I've been JUST about able to reach the clip after a few attempts. Main issue though is that there is a big bow in the line because it wasn't a strong hit on the clip.

Question is what can I do to make this easier without major changes to rods, line and reels? Current set up as follows;

3lb TC 12ft rods

20lb Gardner hydrotuff mono mainline 

Daiwa big pit style reels filled to the lip

Rig tubing, lead clip, 2.5oz flat pear gripper lead. 

No pva bag etc

 

 

Thanks, Paul

 

 

 

 

 

Easy way to get further first is to reduce the diameter of your mainline; 20lb is 0.40mm or so, so go to 0.35mm or 15lb. Most 15lb lines will go that distance and have the strength to do it. 

Your lead is too small to consistently hit the distance with 2.5oz. Your rods will be able to handle 3 or even 3.5oz, but you will need to be smooth with your style. The increased lead size should reduce line bow in any cross wind. 

Flat leads can also reduce distance, standard pear or distance leads will improve how far you can cast. The flat leads though, do stop or reduce lead movement on slopes, or even if you get undertow.

I have had 3oz distance leads move in a severe undertow on a 60acre lake when the lake inflow from the river relief channel rushed in along with meltwater. 

[carpepecheur]

I'm not much of a caster but in my youth I did a bit of beach casting. I am not au fait with modern techniques but in those days there was one technique that increased the distance I could cast quite significantly. It was (and maybe still is) referred to as the pendulum cast.

There are only two parameters to get max distance and that is the angle for maximum range (45 deg) and speed. The speed comes in two parts. The first depends on how you wave your arms and legs about when casting and the second is unloading the compression you have put in the rod.. A heavier lead helps you get more compression into the rod ro release when you cast but it needs more effort on your part. With the pendulum method, you swing the lead like a pendulum up and behind you before you cast then you start your cast just as the weight is swinging back down  towards you. The momentum in the pendulum coming towards you makes it easier to get maximum compression into your rod, thus a greater tip speed, thus a greater distance. I just wondered if this method is current practise in UK or, if not, whether it is worth consideration. 

[framey]

It is common in beach casting 

 

[dayvid]

Lets hope Pendulum casting NEVER arrives in Carp fishing , otherwise their will be some horrendous injuries.

[framey]

I can cast further coming from around the side than I can an overhead thump 

but I wouldn’t use a full blown pendulum cast (not that I can anyway lol)

[ouchthathurt]

12 hours ago, dayvid said:

Lets hope Pendulum casting NEVER arrives in Carp fishing , otherwise their will be some horrendous injuries.

I have to agree, whereas pendulum casting is commonplace on the beach scene with distance in mind, (although with the current trend of lighter, longer 14-15ft beachcasters, a simple overhead thump can achieve plenty of distance and the pendulum is not as common) such casting practices, such as the full pendulum, half pendulum and OTG (off the ground) casts, designed to “pre-load” the rod tip by causing it to compress into its casting curve before the angler provides the “power stroke” (ooh err missus) which sends the lead further. I’ve used half pendulums and OTG casting styles, and with the multiplier in the reel down position, I could get the lead to really fly! But that was with a 13ft beachcaster, with a t/c of about 6lb! (Rods are rated 4-7oz casting weight) such casts should really remain on the beach, a carp rod, regardless of t/c is not designed to take such high stress/forces that such casting styles put on a rod, even some beachcasters are not recommended for such casting styles, the continental rods of 14-15ft would snap under compression, as would a carp rod sooner or later, that’s if the line didn’t snap before hand, these casting styles always call for a 60lb shockleader on the shore. Most swims wouldn’t have the room for these casting styles anyway I would have thought! 

[emmcee]

On 15/05/2021 at 22:58, pablo7uk said:

Hi guys

I've done a couple of sessions lately on larger venues that I've probably ever fished. On both occasions I either got told of a good spot that was a huge Chuck or could see a good spot (fallen tree on far bank). 

When I say a big cast I'm meaning in the region of 20-23 wraps. 

I've been JUST about able to reach the clip after a few attempts. Main issue though is that there is a big bow in the line because it wasn't a strong hit on the clip.

Question is what can I do to make this easier without major changes to rods, line and reels? Current set up as follows;

3lb TC 12ft rods

20lb Gardner hydrotuff mono mainline 

Daiwa big pit style reels filled to the lip

Rig tubing, lead clip, 2.5oz flat pear gripper lead. 

No pva bag etc

 

 

Thanks, Paul

 

 

 

 

 

Are you allowed to use braided mainline on this lake you mention? If so that along with 3.5oz leads will see you cast over this fallen tree you mention. Another reason for braided mainline  is that there is no stretch in it so bite indication is pretty much instant. With mono' mainline the amount of stretch in the line at 20-23 wraps would see the fish take you into this snag without even registering a bleep on your alarm. 

[pablo7uk]

12 hours ago, emmcee said:

Are you allowed to use braided mainline on this lake you mention? If so that along with 3.5oz leads will see you cast over this fallen tree you mention. Another reason for braided mainline  is that there is no stretch in it so bite indication is pretty much instant. With mono' mainline the amount of stretch in the line at 20-23 wraps would see the fish take you into this snag without even registering a bleep on your alarm. 

Thanks for the suggestion, my other spools have braid on them with a fluoro leader so after a quick double check of the rules yes I think I could use these. 

I must admit I've never actually fished with braided mainline - the reels were second hand and arrived with these already loaded. 

[carpepecheur]

It seems there is a consensus that using a pendulum cast for carp fishing is dangerous. I would probably disagree because it allows you to get the same rod compression with a lighter weight, or more compression with the same weight, or the same range with the less effort and more control. Pablo seemed keen to get maximum range but if the pendulum technique bothers you, the next best thing to address is the drag during trajectory.

There have been many suggestions as to how to reduce drag such as lead shape, line thickness or material, rod ring size and type, reel diameter etc. etc. My interest is in quantifying what changes actually make a difference. Fortunately, a technique was developed in the late 16^th century by Galileo who started dropping things from the top of the leaning tower of Pisa. He proved that if you drop two externally identical weights, but with one much heavier than the other, they will hit the ground at the same time.  

So if you want to check if a flat pear is more aero dynamic than an Arsley bomb, simply drop them both at the same time from a high structure and see which hits the ground first.

If you want to check out the drag of your rod set up, use two identical leads. One you let free fall as the control weight, the other you attach to the end of your rig attached to your line with the rod at right angles to the direction of fall and the bale arm open and let it go at the same time. Obviously the free falling lead will hit first and the amount of time behind it that the attached lead hits the ground represents the effect of drag in your tackle. You can repeat this as many times you want until you have worked out the most efficient tackle combination to reduce drag.

The trouble is that this requires very precise timing to make the comparison and a stop watch is simply not good enough. The solution is simple. Using your smartphone, simply record the sound of the two leads hitting the floor. Then look at the sounds in an audio editing app. You will get a graphic visualisation of the two impacts and can measure the distance between them to 1/100^th of a second.

 

 

.

 

[framey]

I think it is more likely as previously suggested 

the size of the waters 

fishing a 200-300 yard wide lake in England is different from fishing Cassien les quis or some 90 acre lake.