Washed out baits

[liamclose]

Personally dont buy in to the washed out bait theory because unless there no bird life, nuisance fish or crayfish and the carp stock is vey low the bait would rarely be in the water 48 hours in fact majority of lakes i doubt the bait makes it more than ten hours out in the lake majority of the time. Even when we not catching the fish are clearing the bait and just leaving the hook bait. Would a carp no the difference between a bait thats been in water 8 hours or 48 hours and then link this to safety i dont think so personally. imo its anouther example of looking into things to much.

[Drowning Maggot]

Nuisance fish smh

[salokcinnodrog]

Personally dont buy in to the washed out bait theory because unless there no bird life, nuisance fish or crayfish and the carp stock is vey low the bait would rarely be in the water 48 hours in fact majority of lakes i doubt the bait makes it more than ten hours out in the lake majority of the time. Even when we not catching the fish are clearing the bait and just leaving the hook bait. Would a carp no the difference between a bait thats been in water 8 hours or 48 hours and then link this to safety i dont think so personally. imo its anouther example of looking into things to much.

I'm not sure I agree, as I have seen fresh baits left in (heavily fished) areas, and fresh baits eaten in  areas where the carp don't think they are being fished for. At Taverham, I spent a lot of time on the water over 10 years, and you could see the fish leave baits in those heavily fished spots, until they had been in the water for a couple of days, at which point they would start clearing them up. The same with the local river, carp would leave sweetcorn on a particular spot until it had started to go grey, they would swim past it, pause, and then only after a couple of days would they come in to eat it. A couple of mates and I spent a fair amount of time there walking the whole stretch, and there is no way, as the carp could swim the whole stretch in the time we walked it (and did almost every day in summer), that we wouldn't see them, so observation was pretty easy. Strangely enough, we didn't see the bream and the tench there, but we knew that they were about as they were often the first fish into particular spots when we fished. The carp would also avoid particular features, one being a gravel bank that rose up from the river bed.

 

On the occasions I have left hookbaits in the water for a few days, it is often the bigger fish from a water that take it. That is I have spotted larger fish in the spot, and watched them 'control' the area, making smaller fish avoid the spot or area, and then take the hookbait after a couple of days, when my apparent danger is nil (not many anglers leave a bait out for so long without recasting).

 

I'm sure I am not the only person who has noticed this as Ken Townley wrote about it, and it is a tactic that Albert Romp employed in the past.

[stephenwright97]

Well Salokcinnodrog, that really clears up a few things. A clear example of comment by experience. Thanks. 

[liamclose]

Well Salokcinnodrog, that really clears up a few things. A clear example of comment by experience. Thanks.

Not imo as if big carp sit there gaurding bait from smaller fish if they done that they would use more energy gaurding the bait than they would gain from eating it thats not how nature works. If you sit there for 3 days with out take thinking because its sat there for 3 days its more likely to be a big fish your very misguided if after 3 days a take occurs the fact is its just as likely to be the smallest fish in the lake as it is the biggest because in my expeirence the only thing that seperates the smallest fish in the lake and the biggest is size. If you sat there for 3 days and havent reeled in to look for other oppertunities elseware thats just bad angling. Catching big fish is all about consistancy sitting there 3 days with the rods out on majority of uk waters is not going to lead consistant angling. Imagine you turn up to the lake on a its thunder lighting big winds bang on conditions you put a kilo of bait out 2 days later its red hot 25 degrees is that kilo of bait more likely to be eaten in the the storm or just after the storm or 2 days later in the red hot weather most people would say in or just after the storm thats because conditions are and so many other aspects of angling are far more impotant than weather the baits fresh or washed out imo its neither here nore there but personally i prefer fresh bait to washed out bait. imo nicks looking into things to much there so many variables that could have effected the fish he seen eating baits days after its been put in that the bait been washed out proberly didnt have alot to do with it.

[newmarket]

Good thread this , I'm really enjoying the way its slowly unfolding .

I agree with you Liam . I have a lot more confidence in a fresh bait and the attraction it must offer compared to one that has been sitting in the lake for a few days.

I think the longest i have left a bait out is a day and a morning then felt compelled to change something.

Having said that i have no reason to doubt Nick so maybe its a case of every lake fishing differently According to pressure and stuff .

 

Personally apart from when surface fishing i've never seen a fish actually take a bait no matter how long its been in the water ?

I can just about see a fluro hookbait dropped in the margin at my feet let alone kilos of HNV boilies 50+ yards out

Edited July 13, 2014 by newmarket

[androoooo]

I would also tend to agree with Liam. Not because it 'could' be a factor but lots of things can affect whether feed fish and trip up.

 

Stephen mentions fishing Monday/Tuesday after a weekend. Bites may dry up over the weekend due to pressure not the bait being used and they feel happier feeding when there is less bank side commotion. It could be big beds put them off for a while. Who really knows there are a lot of factors at play.

 

If it's trying to capitalise on weekend syndrome you might have more success roaming looking for signs of feeding fish and putting a single bait, stringer or stick to them. Walk round on the weekend and see whether you can see where big beds are going out so you know where they may be feeding. Maybe fish a washed out bait against a new one to see whether there is a difference if you really want to test it. There are no wonder rigs or bait and the only thing you can guarantee is that you can't catch what's not in front of you. Maybe even more so if you've washed out a lot of the attractants.

[salokcinnodrog]

Not imo as if big carp sit there gaurding bait from smaller fish if they done that they would use more energy gaurding the bait than they would gain from eating it thats not how nature works. If you sit there for 3 days with out take thinking because its sat there for 3 days its more likely to be a big fish your very misguided if after 3 days a take occurs the fact is its just as likely to be the smallest fish in the lake as it is the biggest because in my expeirence the only thing that seperates the smallest fish in the lake and the biggest is size. If you sat there for 3 days and havent reeled in to look for other oppertunities elseware thats just bad angling. Catching big fish is all about consistancy sitting there 3 days with the rods out on majority of uk waters is not going to lead consistant angling. Imagine you turn up to the lake on a its thunder lighting big winds bang on conditions you put a kilo of bait out 2 days later its red hot 25 degrees is that kilo of bait more likely to be eaten in the the storm or just after the storm or 2 days later in the red hot weather most people would say in or just after the storm thats because conditions are and so many other aspects of angling are far more impotant than weather the baits fresh or washed out imo its neither here nore there but personally i prefer fresh bait to washed out bait. imo nicks looking into things to much there so many variables that could have effected the fish he seen eating baits days after its been put in that the bait been washed out proberly didnt have alot to do with it.

 

 

Good thread this , I'm really enjoying the way its slowly unfolding .

I agree with you Liam . I have a lot more confidence in a fresh bait and the attraction it must offer compared to one that has been sitting in the lake for a few days.

I think the longest i have left a bait out is a day and a morning then felt compelled to change something.

Having said that i have no reason to doubt Nick so maybe its a case of every lake fishing differently According to pressure and stuff .

 

Personally apart from when surface fishing i've never seen a fish actually take a bait no matter how long its been in the water ?

I can just about see a fluro hookbait dropped in the margin at my feet let alone kilos of HNV boilies 50+ yards out

Liam,

Not necessarily bad angling as the swim I would fish on Brackens gave me a couple of options. The sunken car across to the far bank was a spot that would produce fish, so in the 2 days it took to get a take from a 30, I had already had 3 other decent fish, a 20 and 2 other fairly big doubles. The actual spot that the 30 came from was in the margins, alongside some rushes, part of the feature of car corner, and those rushes provided plenty of other food, that the 30 was able to get to fairly easily, so it didn't have to travel at all far to get to natural food.

 

I was pretty consistent on Brackens, catching a number of fish (don't need to boast about size), and the bigger ones would often be the only fish caught from a particular spot, numbers of carp could come from other spots if that makes sense. 

 

Weather wise, numbers of fish came in stormy conditions, in dry hot weather you would catch very little, but in those stormy conditions, you did not necessarily catch the biggest fish.

 

One of the big 30's was nearly always caught from a particular area of the lake, one of 2 swims that could reach the area (easily), occasionally from a 3rd, but if that happened, the chances are that the angler who caught it, was fishing over towards the Boards swim from Suicide, which could only be done if Boards was empty. Sam's fish was nearly always caught at the other end of the lake. 

 

When I caught my 28 from the river, the carp were avoiding particular spots, but it took a bait that had been cast in previously that morning (a very short session that, 2 1/2hours). The only new bait that went in was  handful of pellets over the recast rod, onto a spot that was rarely if ever fished.

 

What I think is that the washed out bait syndrome works only in certain circumstances: 

 

When not enough bait has gone in for the fish to be confident eating it. My bait on Brackens, strictly speaking I couldn't pre-bait it. The rules stipulate that bait may only be put in via stringer or PVA bag, and some bailiffs would jump on you from a great height if you were caught catty'ing baits out so pre-baiting before a session was difficult. Effectively, the only pre-baiting was the bait that I could put in during a session, where washed out baits may have been a definite advantage.

 

This weekend syndrome that Androoooo mentions is something I think about. At the weekend, or more particularly Friday, every angler and his dog arrives, fires in his bait, sits over his large baited patch, and wonders why on Sunday he has blanked. The carp have the chance to pick and choose what they eat, or have hidden themselves away in the corner where no-one can get to them. Come Sunday night when most anglers pack up the fish come out and then start to eat what has gone in over the weekend. Still eating Monday or even Tuesday the weekend bait, gives the impression that they are only eating washed out baits, but by this time, that is the only bait left in as not many or every water has anglers bait going in midweek.

[newmarket]

Liam,

Not necessarily bad angling as the swim I would fish on Brackens gave me a couple of options. The sunken car across to the far bank was a spot that would produce fish, so in the 2 days it took to get a take from a 30, I had already had 3 other decent fish, a 20 and 2 other fairly big doubles. The actual spot that the 30 came from was in the margins, alongside some rushes, part of the feature of car corner, and those rushes provided plenty of other food, that the 30 was able to get to fairly easily, so it didn't have to travel at all far to get to natural food.

 

I was pretty consistent on Brackens, catching a number of fish (don't need to boast about size), and the bigger ones would often be the only fish caught from a particular spot, numbers of carp could come from other spots if that makes sense.

 

Weather wise, numbers of fish came in stormy conditions, in dry hot weather you would catch very little, but in those stormy conditions, you did not necessarily catch the biggest fish.

 

One of the big 30's was nearly always caught from a particular area of the lake, one of 2 swims that could reach the area (easily), occasionally from a 3rd, but if that happened, the chances are that the angler who caught it, was fishing over towards the Boards swim from Suicide, which could only be done if Boards was empty. Sam's fish was nearly always caught at the other end of the lake.

 

When I caught my 28 from the river, the carp were avoiding particular spots, but it took a bait that had been cast in previously that morning (a very short session that, 2 1/2hours). The only new bait that went in was handful of pellets over the recast rod, onto a spot that was rarely if ever fished.

 

What I think is that the washed out bait syndrome works only in certain circumstances:

 

When not enough bait has gone in for the fish to be confident eating it. My bait on Brackens, strictly speaking I couldn't pre-bait it. The rules stipulate that bait may only be put in via stringer or PVA bag, and some bailiffs would jump on you from a great height if you were caught catty'ing baits out so pre-baiting before a session was difficult. Effectively, the only pre-baiting was the bait that I could put in during a session, where washed out baits may have been a definite advantage.

 

This weekend syndrome that Androoooo mentions is something I think about. At the weekend, or more particularly Friday, every angler and his dog arrives, fires in his bait, sits over his large baited patch, and wonders why on Sunday he has blanked. The carp have the chance to pick and choose what they eat, or have hidden themselves away in the corner where no-one can get to them. Come Sunday night when most anglers pack up the fish come out and then start to eat what has gone in over the weekend. Still eating Monday or even Tuesday the weekend bait, gives the impression that they are only eating washed out baits, but by this time, that is the only bait left in as not many or every water has anglers bait going in midweek.

Thats more like it Nick , i think you have hit the nail on the head there .

Angling pressure , as it subsides , and maybe not even mondays maybe as late as tuesday/wednesday may well be when the fish decide the baits are safe .

By which time of course they are washed out .

 

A much more realistic explanation methinks

[androoooo]

Nick like you say washed out baits may only work in certain circumstance. Trying to pinpoint when and where would drive a person insane. I think to often we link a change in bait or rig to a capture and draw the wrong conclusions. For people who can spend the time testing/fishing a water over a prolonged period they may find they can. Only for the theory to blow later.

 

I still think the biggest change anyone can makr is location. Most good anglers I hear will say location is 90% of catching the fish. So any improvement in location is worth more than a tweak to a bait or rig.

 

If you have a bait you know fish eat and a rig that presents ok and you know how to adapt it to what's on the bottom then the biggest single change most can make is where they are fishing.

[salokcinnodrog]

Thats more like it Nick , i think you have hit the nail on the head there .

Angling pressure , as it subsides , and maybe not even mondays maybe as late as tuesday/wednesday may well be when the fish decide the baits are safe .

By which time of course they are washed out .

 

A much more realistic explanation methinks

A mate and I always say that the best days for fishing is Wednesday and Thursday. The fish have eaten up the weekend bait, are starting to run out of food, and are on the hunt for anything available. Go Friday, and you have to compete with the weekend anglers for swims, not nice for those wanting a quiet life

[liamclose]

preassure with out doubt is major factor in how fish feed. Lakes that get busy are useally fished by alot of one trick ponies who turn up and fill it in even though the fish arnt really feeding there ten anglers around the lake fishing for a big hit that is never going to happen. Instead of just fishing for one fish at a time there fishing for ten. so even if the fish do have little feed the chances of them picking up the hookbait is slim because there jst so much bait for them to eat the odss of the hook bait been picjed are a thusond to one them are getting worse with every spod full of bait. plus the preassure makeing them ultra cusios but the fish are still eating the bait while its fres jzst not getting caught . I do agree with what nick said about fish that dont get fished for often paticually if its low stock that is one of very few situations i beleive washed out baits could put more fish on the bank.

[newmarket]

At the time it was a case of having to rather than choice , but i honestly believe that the fact i used to fish tuesday-thursday was a BIG factor.

 

Never ever tore the lake apart ( i wished ) but i never blanked either .

Well , maybe once in 3 years .

[salokcinnodrog]

Nick like you say washed out baits may only work in certain circumstance. Trying to pinpoint when and where would drive a person insane. I think to often we link a change in bait or rig to a capture and draw the wrong conclusions. For people who can spend the time testing/fishing a water over a prolonged period they may find they can. Only for the theory to blow later.

 

I still think the biggest change anyone can makr is location. Most good anglers I hear will say location is 90% of catching the fish. So any improvement in location is worth more than a tweak to a bait or rig.

 

If you have a bait you know fish eat and a rig that presents ok and you know how to adapt it to what's on the bottom then the biggest single change most can make is where they are fishing.

 

 

preassure with out doubt is major factor in how fish feed. Lakes that get busy are useally fished by alot of one trick ponies who turn up and fill it in even though the fish arnt really feeding there ten anglers around the lake fishing for a big hit that is never going to happen. Instead of just fishing for one fish at a time there fishing for ten. so even if the fish do have little feed the chances of them picking up the hookbait is slim because there jst so much bait for them to eat the odss of the hook bait been picjed are a thusond to one them are getting worse with every spod full of bait. plus the preassure makeing them ultra cusios but the fish are still eating the bait while its fres jzst not getting caught . I do agree with what nick said about fish that dont get fished for often paticually if its low stock that is one of very few situations i beleive washed out baits could put more fish on the bank.

I try NOT to draw conclusions from fishing, although we tend to do it so that we can have a definitive answer, which the fish then spit back in your face when they don't do as you expect them to.

 

On Brackens, I would prefer to recast out the same old hookbait, but fish with a fresh stringer. I was convinced one day that the fish were in the corner I was fishing, but something was wrong. I reeled in, and changed rig for some reason i can't remember, and in the process went from my sliding ring presentation, to an off the shank KK, hair with line aligner. As I went to put on the old hookbait, it crumbled in my hands, so I put on a fresh one instead with a stringer. This was then cast back to the corner, possibly slightly closer to the overhanging branches, or even into the undercut bank. Within minutes I had hooked a decent looking 20. Whether I had gotten a new bait with added attraction to where the fish were avoiding my hookbait, or whether I had inadvertently gotten slightly further into the corner I will never know, maybe the rig was a better presentation but what conclusions we draw from this is up to you!

 

It was Brian Skoyles who came up with what he termed the 4 Day Approach, a massive bed of bait, that on day 4(ish) of a session he would start to catch from, and I think Tim Paisley used that in a way to catch numbers of fish from Birch Grove, when other anglers had baited up and left, when he came down at the weekend his results were often better over old bait, where anglers had fished during the week.

 

I'm not sure whether it is the 'washed out' that is the trick, the added bacteria and bugs that have broken the bait down making it easier to digest, or even the fact that it has been in the water for a number of days and is safe, but at some point in time, it is a useful method to remember.

[androoooo]

Nick in your last paragraph you mention the bugs and bacteria and breakdown of the bait.

 

It's an interesting point as if that was the case then simply washing out in a pure water may not change the activeness of the bait. So if you were to employ it, would the best water be lake water to stimulate that breakdown? Which may actually make the bait more attractive from the natural breakdown? Is it this that may be mistaken for the effect of washed out baits?

 

If it has the potential to make a bait more attractive with the breakdown then it's certainly worth a consideration to not replace the boilie as often.

[mooseman]

I'm really enjoying the directions this thread is going off in!

 

Androoooo with regards to what happens to the bait when we "Wash it out", you are starting to see the bigger picture, I'd suggest reading the thread again from the beginning and it might become clearer.

[androoooo]

I have done mooseman and seen your comments on this very subject.

 

I still feel location is more fundamental than bait in catching and that's where my focus on my fishing is at the moment.

 

the idea of a chemical change though makes more sense to me than texture or colour as to why fish may be more inclined to take a washed out bait but then it's not about it being washed out it's about it being more attractive.

 

Whether we realise it or not everything we and animals perceive is through frequencies. Light, sound etc are all frequencies. Carp will have the same as well but will be more attuned to frequencies given of by their food. All living things emit a frequency and a change in chemical reaction means a change in the signals a bait is throwing off.

[mooseman]

Cor, frequencies, this is getting deep and meaninful now! You'll have the words "Chakra" and "Zen" or whatever being bandied around!

 

Joking aside though, you're right Carp are so much more attuned to their environment than we will ever be. We can detect smells in the air around us for example, Carp can smell (Read taste) substances hundreds/thousands of times more diluted amongst all of the other signals they are surrounded by, and process whether they present a food source or not.

 

I'm totally with you about location mate, it is the single most important aspect of your fishing, whether we are talking pinpoint location (A hot area within a swim) or the bigger picture, as in knowing where the fish are likely to be for any given set of conditions.

I fish a 400+ acre lake in winter for Pike, and despite having what I am fairly sure is the best choice of baits and methods I can use, if I didn't have at least a decent idea where the fish are going to be, I would be totally wasting my time.

 

I'm in the situation where I can't always be on the fish (Or at least on the bulk of them) on my current syndicate, so whatever I can do to increase the chance of a Carp finding my bait and wanting to eat it, I have to do that.

 

An attractive bait (In my opinion) is not one that is reeking of Strawberry/Pineapple/Coconut or whatever, but one that is giving off signals that say "Eat me, I'm safe and good for you" to our old friend the Cypry.

 

I have seen Carp literally doing loop the loops in a cloud of liquids that I have poured into an area, looking for solid edible food items. (Note: This is a safe area that the Carp are relaxed in)

I have seen these fish on another occasion vacate the same area (In their own time, not bolting away) when about 1/4 kilo of broken up freezer baits were introduced. They didn't return for 2 days and the baits were all eaten by Tench.

 

As a final observation, talking beds of bait here. I really do think that the area of water surrounding whatever bait you introduce, goes through changes the longer that bait is there, and the Carp know it.

[androoooo]

It's not meant to be, it's just a general observation on life. We're all affected at a unconcious level by them music, colour etc all create a physiological response.

 

To imagine anything different for animals would be wrong. For predators like pike it's quite often movement and vibrations.

For carp the chemical change may stimulate a more primal urge to feed based on survival. When food is fresh and in abundance they may be more cautious.

 

If it's that change in the makeup of the bait you're looking for then it would be done much better in lake water?

 

I think most animals eating is driven by scarcity or abundance. It's why pre-baiting works and can be more effective when you stop feeding a day or two before, or creating competition by keep trickling in bait.

 

A lot of whats been mentioned as examples of washed out baits working could be interpreted as scarcity. Now on different waters that scarcity or abundance may be created by other things. Naturals, anglers baits, stocking levels, angling pressure week days vs weekends, bait breakdown.

 

If they have a lot of food, they may not be as opportunistic so the best way may be to think of little traps that are different to what's going on. A single in the margin almost like a discarded bait. These may be fed on more readily as they've generally always represented safe food. Now if that baits at the optimal point I guess it may be more attractive but as long as I knew fish patrolled that spot and maybe there were signs of feeding I'd be just as happy with a fresh one.

 

One thing I do notice is that people tend to blame rigs and baits quite a bit for a lack of results. It tends to be easily remedied by buying the latest must have ingredient or rig item. It's easy for us to control as we can buy it. I'm not knocking people who understand bait and take the time to gain a deep knwoeldge but people who look at it as a quick fix rather than to work at understanding where fish visit or looking for signs of fish before setting up, I will accept the decision can be influenced by available swims. We can't control the fish all we can do is fish where they are, or likely to pass on their patrols.

[elmoputney]

I've just read this as yesterday I decided to bait up a bit on the little club water, I also decided that due to only being able to nick a couple of hours here are there using washed out baits would be a great edge for me, 

So I took home a bucket of lake water and added some frozen dumbbells to it then I added some spod syrup and robin red oil the result a fantastically attractive but washed out looking soft bait,I think this can only help with short session angling tbh 

As I reckon the carp will be getting loads of leftovers and living off those mainly as it's a days only mixed lake so I believe leftovers will be there main food source,

[elmoputney]

That's me sold on it 4 runs in 2 hours 3 landed one fell off at the net, all after epic battles though, and in far from ideal conditions,biggest a scraper double but it's nice to have some runs and get to test my ideas out, a much welcomed confidence boost 

[snowmanstevo]

2 hours ago, elmoputney said:

That's me sold on it 4 runs in 2 hours 3 landed one fell off at the net, all after epic battles though, and in far from ideal conditions,biggest a scraper double but it's nice to have some runs and get to test my ideas out, a much welcomed confidence boost 

Well done. 😎🎣

[Ginger9991]

not read all the messages but im not sold on the whole washed out bait thing, How does a fish know a bait has been in the water longer? Most baits washed out or not are slightly different shades of colour. I also think it would be niave of us on most venues to think we were fishing where there is no other bait around.

If a fish is leaving fresh bait and eating the washed out bait....is it because the fish thinks its been in the water longer so safe? or that the food signals are maybe less and now more attractive to that particular fish? or is it the flavour you have added when washing out a bait that has made it more favourable.....We will probably never know.

Every angler will have a different opinion, The question is, are you confident in what you are doing? If you washing out your bait and its catching fish...continue, If your not catching, Give it a try and if it doesnt work youve lost nothing. Fishing well if all about confidence.

[elmoputney]

I think texture may play a big part tbh, maybe if it's already starting to breakdown and it doesn't need to soak in the lake water then maybe they can digest it better and easier once it's been in the lake a while 

[yonny]

Imo if you need to wash out your baits to get a bite there is something very wrong with your bait.

We pay all that money for the most attractive bait we can get then wash all the attractors out. Makes no sense to me.

If you want a soft bait try washing in; saturating in a water/glug/hydro mix. This adds to the attractors rather than washing them out and softens them up nicely. As they're saturated they don't take on silt either.