salokcinnodrog

You seemed very grown up when I came down to meet you, or was that because your lovely wife was keeping an eye on you?

I used to love my Wavelock with the Fox Jekh Shelter overwrap. I think that I went mark 1 Fox EasyDome next. That is a Taverham Mills swim, and Delkim ST's and Fox Swingers as well.

And here you have raised very pertinent additional points. Any ingredient in a boilie is denatured, or liquids evaporate as they are boiled, less so if they are steamed. By denature, the food value is reduced, the protein level is lowered, and enzymes 'killed', even vitamins and minerals are reduced, especially those on the outside skin of the boilie. The inside of the bait may still not be 'cooked' on short boiling times*, as the full temperature takes time to get to the middle. So the only part of the boilie that still contains fully effective or as you nicely describe it, beneficial effects is the middle. The best way to get these liquids to continue working effectively is to soak or glug the baits after boiling. You can add these liquids to your spod mix, your particles, your powdered groundbait, your pellets. I don't know if anyone remembers the days of the CarpWorld/Nutrabaits Lac Fishabil trips, but Bill Cottams favourite mix I think was a bucket of birdfood, boilies crushed and whole with added Nutramino, Multimino PPc and condensed milk. This is where you have different effects in water, the solubility of the liquid, how it mixes in the lake. Some liquids will spread out across the lakebed, others will cloud lakebed to surface. The 'hope' is that the carp will follow the reverse track of the water current if any down to the source, and it creates a spot to investigate. *My aim when making my own bait was to have a solid skin, but a paste middle.

"Not only is the effect the same, the products you mentioned are more or less hydrolysates" Oh dear, you really need to be right if you do want to try to make a point. If you really want to get in an argument I will wear you down with facts, and be correct with my facts, which sadly yours are not. I can get my data from the original research I did years ago, quite frequently back in the early 2000's when I was working with bait manufacturers. (Some of the references and sources are listed) The oat milk research was when I was working in the catering industry as we had to do full allergen test and have full data sheet to hand. Also standard oat milk will not produce a cappuccino with much 'body', you won't get ⅓coffee, ⅓milk and ⅓froth, you'll get a milky coffee, almost identical to a latte. So far I have shown many of your arguments as incorrect, and instead of 'cherry picking' and missing words out like you. (You were close on Nutramino) You missed a bit: Hydrolysates are simply formed by adding water, adding an enzyme, or acid to create a smaller particle. I do mention adding an enzyme or acid, which you ignored. Yes, commercially produced oat milk is a carbohydrate hydrolysate. (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10534225/) During manufacturing, oat flour and water are combined and treated with natural food-grade enzymes (like amylases). This enzymatic hydrolysis process breaks down the oats' dense, gritty starches into smaller, sweeter, and highly soluble simple sugars (like maltose and glucose) This controlled hydrolysis serves three critical purposes: Texture & Creaminess: It prevents the oat starch from turning into a thick, gummy paste and ensures a smooth, milky liquid. Natural Sweetness: It breaks down starches to naturally sweeten the beverage without requiring the addition of processed sugars. Ingredient Labelling: Because the starches are broken down intentionally to sweeten and smooth the drink, labels will often list "hydrolyzed oats" in the ingredients. Multimino is a form of pre-digested liquid food. However, instead of being a traditional animal-protein hydrolysate, it functions as an amino-acid-rich syrup based on Phosphorylcolamine (PPC) and natural extracts. How it works: Because the protein chains are already broken down, this highly water-soluble syrup is considered "pre-digested," making it extremely easy for fish to digest and absorb. Ingredients: It is traditionally a blend of PPC, predigested liver extracts, spleen extract, fruit extracts, and natural sweeteners. Difference from Hydrolysates: While pure hydrolysates (like Salmon Hydrolysate) are the direct breakdown products of whole animal flesh, Multimino is a specialized medical-grade nutrient supplement that provides a similar profile of free-form amino acids. Nutrabaits Nutramino is essentially a human-food-grade pre-digested liquid food. While Nutrabaits sometimes uses the term "pre-digested," the process of breaking down complex proteins (like liver, spleen, and gastric mucosa) into highly absorbable, free-form amino acids is exactly what enzymatic hydrolysis entails. Because it mimics a pre-hydrolyzed or pre-broken-down protein source, it gives carp an irresistible and instantly digestible amino-acid profile. Standard corn steep liquor (CSL) is not naturally classified as a hydrolysate. It is instead the raw, concentrated liquid byproduct of the wet-milling process, generated by soaking corn kernels in water and sulfur dioxide. Liquid Yeast is an interesting one, it is actually the soluble liquid left behind after the hydrolysate has been removed. This is used as a flavor enhancer (like Marmite or Vegemite) or as a nutrient for cell cultures. Active Liquid Yeast: This refers to intact, living yeast cells used in baking or brewing. This is not a hydrolysate.

You are missing the point, it does not need hydrolysates to have a 'controlled breakdown', to enable protein to be more easily digested, or solubility and leakage. Absolutely everything you have put down about free amino acids and peptides does not require hydrolysates. That was accomplished for years with Multimino, Nutramino, Minamino and various other brand names, Corn Steep Liquor and Liquid Yeast or other ingredients. Soaking and glugging baits after boiling in them did exactly the same thing. They could also be mixed in with the base mix. The effects are the same. Hydrolysates are simply formed by adding water, adding an enzyme, or acid to create a smaller particle. A basic hydrolysate is oat milk!

Bet you they do😉 If you put a flavour in a bait, it has the base solvent, which is in many cases a preservative. If you put in a powdered ingredient, it likely contains either an anti-caking agent, or an ingredient to slow down or prevent it going rancid, they are preservatives. Even basic sugar and salt are forms of preservative. Actually it is, to quote myself "Hydrolysate is a posh way of saying more digestible or usable protein". If you copy my statement above, go to Google and then type in 'is' followed by pasting my wording above you will get the answer "Yes, basically it is", and then a scientific process review. I would not have said it without knowing what I was saying, and buzzwords get put into baitmaking just like in convincing humans that isotonic, hydrolysates, are better for you than a standard diet. However, for the average person, regular protein is digested and used just fine. Hydrolysates often come with a much higher price tag, so you are mostly paying for the speed of absorption rather than a magical increase in overall nutritional quality. Then you have potential side effects of hydrolysates, poor palatibility, bloating, gas, diarrhoea or constipation and funnily enough, many contain preservatives, sugar alcohols, thickening ingredients and artificial sweeteners.

Are you saying that anglers are being connived into buying products by scientific wording?😜😆 I have used Liquid Liver and Liquid Yeast for years, various companies sold forms of CSL.

Not necessarily. Even soaking and boiling is releasing attractors, additional fermentation of particles releases hydrolysates. Aging certain beef cuts, steaks, increases the utilisation of the available protein. Hydrolysate is a posh way of saying more digestible or usable protein, and can refer to meat, seeds, beans, legumes. Soaking and boiling hemp is doing just that. In fact while hemp is edible 'raw', it is more attractive when heated and oils are released. Even plain crushed hemp is more attractive after boiling water is poured over it.

I had no bass, but 11 doggies on Friday night. Mine are Daiwa 7HT's on a 12ft6in Daiwa Sandstorm and a 12ft6in Daiwa SeaHunter Z.

If they had spawned and dropped a bit you know that you can trust his estimates on fish sizes in the water. I have seen the stress of a carp with the blood vessels and blood pressure increasing after capture. I don't know if you can remember it the 29lb fish I had from the syndicate has a 'birthmark' of blood vessels near the pectoral and right gill, it goes red during capture and stress. I've seen it in other fish as well.

I made the standard anglers mistake of going into Birds tackle shop today, ended up spending £40 on bits, more Gardner Incizors, Running lead systems, quick lead clips, another pair of forceps, a few Sea fishing hooks, squid and crushed hemp. I really should make a list of stuff I need rather than trying to remember my way round fresh and saltwater tackle boxes. It looks like the standard tackle shop spend is now £40 for 'odds and sods'.

I told you why it was removed:

Yes it didn't link to any hydrolysates link, it was a 'rant' by someone about people copying their bait. Now hydrolysates are actually fairly easy to use, and many people can use bait that is effectively breaking itself down without realising it. I think it is in the Specialised hookbait thread, where I mention efflorescence, the enzymes, salts and sugars coming to the surface of baits

Welcome to Carp.com, although I struggle with doing grown up

Swans and ducks who eat stones which then grind the food in the crop I believe. The sizes limited were Number 8 shot up to 1oz, hence why Arlesey Bombs and Inline leads minimum weight is now 1.1oz. The other issue, is gun shot pellets, where lead is illegal around watercourses in those same sizes, and being phased out in all shotgun cartridges by 2029.