salokcinnodrog

I set the membership to include a non bot verification. Unfortunately I don't necessarily see new members joining if they go in bulk. I've added loads of Eastern European email and IP addresses and suppliers to the ban filter, but Asian and Indian are as bad. The joy of VPN's is a problem as well, and I think that settings currently restrict access from them.

I wonder if it was originally 'no particles'? A change since then and we might have an explanation.

Did you reverse the top skin in bright sunny weather and did it actually keep it cooler?

I had a look, can't see it on there and screenshot the rules to double check:

I never had a Cypry Dome myself, Bruce had one which we shared a couple of times in the winter on the Meadow swims at Taverham. I did get the Rod Hutchinson Apotheosis, the one after his first dome, when I fished at Earith, very comfy, even in winter, although it did end up smelling of damp. I'd pack up in damp cold weather and not get the chance to dry it until the next session. I always wished that I had gotten a Yateley and Horseshoe ticket, but money and travel was always restrictive until around 2000 when I got my Hotel and Catering Manager HND. I've moved this back to UK Carp Fishing as although it is 'venue based' and referring to Horseshoe I think is history and worthy of general conversation.

You seemed very grown up when I came down to meet you, or was that because your lovely wife was keeping an eye on you?

I used to love my Wavelock with the Fox Jekh Shelter overwrap. I think that I went mark 1 Fox EasyDome next. That is a Taverham Mills swim, and Delkim ST's and Fox Swingers as well.

And here you have raised very pertinent additional points. Any ingredient in a boilie is denatured, or liquids evaporate as they are boiled, less so if they are steamed. By denature, the food value is reduced, the protein level is lowered, and enzymes 'killed', even vitamins and minerals are reduced, especially those on the outside skin of the boilie. The inside of the bait may still not be 'cooked' on short boiling times*, as the full temperature takes time to get to the middle. So the only part of the boilie that still contains fully effective or as you nicely describe it, beneficial effects is the middle. The best way to get these liquids to continue working effectively is to soak or glug the baits after boiling. You can add these liquids to your spod mix, your particles, your powdered groundbait, your pellets. I don't know if anyone remembers the days of the CarpWorld/Nutrabaits Lac Fishabil trips, but Bill Cottams favourite mix I think was a bucket of birdfood, boilies crushed and whole with added Nutramino, Multimino PPc and condensed milk. This is where you have different effects in water, the solubility of the liquid, how it mixes in the lake. Some liquids will spread out across the lakebed, others will cloud lakebed to surface. The 'hope' is that the carp will follow the reverse track of the water current if any down to the source, and it creates a spot to investigate. *My aim when making my own bait was to have a solid skin, but a paste middle.

"Not only is the effect the same, the products you mentioned are more or less hydrolysates" Oh dear, you really need to be right if you do want to try to make a point. If you really want to get in an argument I will wear you down with facts, and be correct with my facts, which sadly yours are not. I can get my data from the original research I did years ago, quite frequently back in the early 2000's when I was working with bait manufacturers. (Some of the references and sources are listed) The oat milk research was when I was working in the catering industry as we had to do full allergen test and have full data sheet to hand. Also standard oat milk will not produce a cappuccino with much 'body', you won't get ⅓coffee, ⅓milk and ⅓froth, you'll get a milky coffee, almost identical to a latte. So far I have shown many of your arguments as incorrect, and instead of 'cherry picking' and missing words out like you. (You were close on Nutramino) You missed a bit: Hydrolysates are simply formed by adding water, adding an enzyme, or acid to create a smaller particle. I do mention adding an enzyme or acid, which you ignored. Yes, commercially produced oat milk is a carbohydrate hydrolysate. (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10534225/) During manufacturing, oat flour and water are combined and treated with natural food-grade enzymes (like amylases). This enzymatic hydrolysis process breaks down the oats' dense, gritty starches into smaller, sweeter, and highly soluble simple sugars (like maltose and glucose) This controlled hydrolysis serves three critical purposes: Texture & Creaminess: It prevents the oat starch from turning into a thick, gummy paste and ensures a smooth, milky liquid. Natural Sweetness: It breaks down starches to naturally sweeten the beverage without requiring the addition of processed sugars. Ingredient Labelling: Because the starches are broken down intentionally to sweeten and smooth the drink, labels will often list "hydrolyzed oats" in the ingredients. Multimino is a form of pre-digested liquid food. However, instead of being a traditional animal-protein hydrolysate, it functions as an amino-acid-rich syrup based on Phosphorylcolamine (PPC) and natural extracts. How it works: Because the protein chains are already broken down, this highly water-soluble syrup is considered "pre-digested," making it extremely easy for fish to digest and absorb. Ingredients: It is traditionally a blend of PPC, predigested liver extracts, spleen extract, fruit extracts, and natural sweeteners. Difference from Hydrolysates: While pure hydrolysates (like Salmon Hydrolysate) are the direct breakdown products of whole animal flesh, Multimino is a specialized medical-grade nutrient supplement that provides a similar profile of free-form amino acids. Nutrabaits Nutramino is essentially a human-food-grade pre-digested liquid food. While Nutrabaits sometimes uses the term "pre-digested," the process of breaking down complex proteins (like liver, spleen, and gastric mucosa) into highly absorbable, free-form amino acids is exactly what enzymatic hydrolysis entails. Because it mimics a pre-hydrolyzed or pre-broken-down protein source, it gives carp an irresistible and instantly digestible amino-acid profile. Standard corn steep liquor (CSL) is not naturally classified as a hydrolysate. It is instead the raw, concentrated liquid byproduct of the wet-milling process, generated by soaking corn kernels in water and sulfur dioxide. Liquid Yeast is an interesting one, it is actually the soluble liquid left behind after the hydrolysate has been removed. This is used as a flavor enhancer (like Marmite or Vegemite) or as a nutrient for cell cultures. Active Liquid Yeast: This refers to intact, living yeast cells used in baking or brewing. This is not a hydrolysate.

You are missing the point, it does not need hydrolysates to have a 'controlled breakdown', to enable protein to be more easily digested, or solubility and leakage. Absolutely everything you have put down about free amino acids and peptides does not require hydrolysates. That was accomplished for years with Multimino, Nutramino, Minamino and various other brand names, Corn Steep Liquor and Liquid Yeast or other ingredients. Soaking and glugging baits after boiling in them did exactly the same thing. They could also be mixed in with the base mix. The effects are the same. Hydrolysates are simply formed by adding water, adding an enzyme, or acid to create a smaller particle. A basic hydrolysate is oat milk!

Bet you they do😉 If you put a flavour in a bait, it has the base solvent, which is in many cases a preservative. If you put in a powdered ingredient, it likely contains either an anti-caking agent, or an ingredient to slow down or prevent it going rancid, they are preservatives. Even basic sugar and salt are forms of preservative. Actually it is, to quote myself "Hydrolysate is a posh way of saying more digestible or usable protein". If you copy my statement above, go to Google and then type in 'is' followed by pasting my wording above you will get the answer "Yes, basically it is", and then a scientific process review. I would not have said it without knowing what I was saying, and buzzwords get put into baitmaking just like in convincing humans that isotonic, hydrolysates, are better for you than a standard diet. However, for the average person, regular protein is digested and used just fine. Hydrolysates often come with a much higher price tag, so you are mostly paying for the speed of absorption rather than a magical increase in overall nutritional quality. Then you have potential side effects of hydrolysates, poor palatibility, bloating, gas, diarrhoea or constipation and funnily enough, many contain preservatives, sugar alcohols, thickening ingredients and artificial sweeteners.

Are you saying that anglers are being connived into buying products by scientific wording?😜😆 I have used Liquid Liver and Liquid Yeast for years, various companies sold forms of CSL.

Not necessarily. Even soaking and boiling is releasing attractors, additional fermentation of particles releases hydrolysates. Aging certain beef cuts, steaks, increases the utilisation of the available protein. Hydrolysate is a posh way of saying more digestible or usable protein, and can refer to meat, seeds, beans, legumes. Soaking and boiling hemp is doing just that. In fact while hemp is edible 'raw', it is more attractive when heated and oils are released. Even plain crushed hemp is more attractive after boiling water is poured over it.

I had no bass, but 11 doggies on Friday night. Mine are Daiwa 7HT's on a 12ft6in Daiwa Sandstorm and a 12ft6in Daiwa SeaHunter Z.

If they had spawned and dropped a bit you know that you can trust his estimates on fish sizes in the water. I have seen the stress of a carp with the blood vessels and blood pressure increasing after capture. I don't know if you can remember it the 29lb fish I had from the syndicate has a 'birthmark' of blood vessels near the pectoral and right gill, it goes red during capture and stress. I've seen it in other fish as well.