That's what I could have said to you regarding the bait question, but that's kind of not the point of the forum, we bounce ideas about and share, I have my own ideas about liquids and know which ones have been good in the past, however at the moment BAF have pretty much tried to stop supplying the average Joe fishermen, so it can be an expensive game buying duff liquids. So I'll ask a slightly different question who do you consider a reputable hydro/liquid manufacturer now BAF only want to do trade sales?