Distances and Wraps

[salokcinnodrog]

I had a chuckle to myself this week as someone on the lake was referring to distances in wraps, and the gradually lowering water level due to evaporation has kind of put it out of kilter.

 

On the swims I fish, I have a 'casting spot' for the features, all memorised, but at the high water level. This week in all innocence, someone asked how many wraps I was fishing, to which the answer would be 9, but from the top of the bank, not the 7 if I was casting from the current water level. I always cast from the top spot!

I was kind enough to mention that the spot I have baited up to was around 36metres, simply because I hate the wrap reference, it means nothing.

Put your sticks out, and wrap, yes OK, but I frequently walk my lines out, so I'm not going to get wraps, to me it is a proper distance of metres or yards if you haven't gotten metric yet

[Carpbell3]

I will add the benefits of a deeper I'm sold on them and you don't need the chirp model the very basic one does just the same job but in less detail, depths distance, bars, gullys, weed beds and hard spots which is the one thing the chirp does in nice colour detail.

[framey]

3 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I had a chuckle to myself this week as someone on the lake was referring to distances in wraps, and the gradually lowering water level due to evaporation has kind of put it out of kilter.

 

On the swims I fish, I have a 'casting spot' for the features, all memorised, but at the high water level. This week in all innocence, someone asked how many wraps I was fishing, to which the answer would be 9, but from the top of the bank, not the 7 if I was casting from the current water level. I always cast from the top spot!

I was kind enough to mention that the spot I have baited up to was around 36metres, simply because I hate the wrap reference, it means nothing.

Put your sticks out, and wrap, yes OK, but I frequently walk my lines out, so I'm not going to get wraps, to me it is a proper distance of metres or yards if you haven't gotten metric yet

Walking out is great on big open waters but 

wraps are useful on some waters 

just use both as the situation requires 👍

[...]

3 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I had a chuckle to myself this week as someone on the lake was referring to distances in wraps, and the gradually lowering water level due to evaporation has kind of put it out of kilter.

 

On the swims I fish, I have a 'casting spot' for the features, all memorised, but at the high water level. This week in all innocence, someone asked how many wraps I was fishing, to which the answer would be 9, but from the top of the bank, not the 7 if I was casting from the current water level. I always cast from the top spot!

I was kind enough to mention that the spot I have baited up to was around 36metres, simply because I hate the wrap reference, it means nothing.

Put your sticks out, and wrap, yes OK, but I frequently walk my lines out, so I'm not going to get wraps, to me it is a proper distance of metres or yards if you haven't gotten metric yet

 

23 minutes ago, framey said:

Walking out is great on big open waters but 

wraps are useful on some waters 

just use both as the situation requires 👍

Tonight I will be changing rod size from 12ft to 10ft, so all my findings in my "book" I will have to redo.

1 hour ago, Carpbell3 said:

I will add the benefits of a deeper I'm sold on them and you don't need the chirp model the very basic one does just the same job but in less detail, depths distance, bars, gullys, weed beds and hard spots which is the one thing the chirp does in nice colour detail.

Using a bare lead (to me now) is way better than any tech....could show smooth bottom, but is it clay, silt, mud....they are not the most reliable to a bare lead.

[salokcinnodrog]

21 minutes ago, framey said:

Walking out is great on big open waters but 

wraps are useful on some waters 

just use both as the situation requires 👍

Mate, 

I'm not arguing distance sticks believe me, they really do have a use, whether it's a pair of storm poles, or proper distance sticks, although I can't convince myself that I need to buy specific distance sticks, using my bivvy storm poles.

It's the distance element of a 'wrap' that makes me laugh.

I've pinpointed a few feeding spots on the lake, and one I found I couldn't reach from the bank when the water is up, I need to be on the margin due to a tree and 12ft rods, or cast from the next swim either side. At the moment that spot is 40metres out, yet in a few weeks, from the margin might be 38.

 

My baited area I've been priming is 32m out from the casting point, which is 9wraps just for the record, yet in terms of from the waters edge is only 28m, or 8wraps.

 

 

 

[framey]

3 hours ago, Highy said:

 

Tonight I will be changing rod size from 12ft to 10ft, so all my findings in my "book" I will have to redo.

Using a bare lead (to me now) is way better than any tech....could show smooth bottom, but is it clay, silt, mud....they are not the most reliable to a bare lead.

No you won’t 

a wrap could be 1 ft 12 foot or 100 foot 

just set them up exactly as you did before using the same distance between them the rod length makes no difference 

[framey]

3 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Mate, 

I'm not arguing distance sticks believe me, they really do have a use, whether it's a pair of storm poles, or proper distance sticks, although I can't convince myself that I need to buy specific distance sticks, using my bivvy storm poles.

It's the distance element of a 'wrap' that makes me laugh.

I've pinpointed a few feeding spots on the lake, and one I found I couldn't reach from the bank when the water is up, I need to be on the margin due to a tree and 12ft rods, or cast from the next swim either side. At the moment that spot is 40metres out, yet in a few weeks, from the margin might be 38.

 

My baited area I've been priming is 32m out from the casting point, which is 9wraps just for the record, yet in terms of from the waters edge is only 28m, or 8wraps.

 

 

 

I’m not suggesting you are lol

as you said But you can use anything to wrap around 

the “proper” ones just have nothing to catch the line on and considering you can buy a set for about 5£ all the way up to 60£ there is a set for every budget if the angler feels they want to buy a set.

when spodding I will move forward a stride back a stride left a bit and right a stride depends on baiting I want to do.

I think there is a case for accuracy but then off the spot works as well 

same as over the other forum about noise travelling down line 

we might as well just take up knitting if we are going to worry about everything like that

 

ps 

I still use yards lol

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by framey

[framey]

16 minutes ago, framey said:

I’m not suggesting you are lol

as you said But you can use anything to wrap around 

the “proper” ones just have nothing to catch the line on and considering you can buy a set for about 5£ all the way up to 60£ there is a set for every budget if the angler feels they want to buy a set.

when spodding I will move forward a stride back a stride left a bit and right a stride depends on baiting I want to do.

I think there is a case for accuracy but then off the spot works as well 

same as over the other forum about noise travelling down line 

we might as well just take up knitting if we are going to worry about everything like that

 

ps 

I still use yards lol

 

12foot is 3.65m 

that’ll mess with their heads when they work out a wrap for that

 

[salokcinnodrog]

27 minutes ago, framey said:

I still use yards lol

Mixed measurements 😂

I use feet for rod lengths and depths, pounds and ounces for fish weights, metres for distances, my weight in kilograms, and when I played American football, pounds, oh and for my passport 1.81m, yet 5ft 11in.

All over the place, like my spodding..

[Carpbell3]

5 hours ago, Highy said:

 

Tonight I will be changing rod size from 12ft to 10ft, so all my findings in my "book" I will have to redo.

Using a bare lead (to me now) is way better than any tech....could show smooth bottom, but is it clay, silt, mud....they are not the most reliable to a bare lead.

Always have a lead around got my mini rake for that if there is a donk to be found you will feel it. The deeper gives better results fast without all the recasting some lakes are near impossible to use a marker float once you get into a bit of weed soon the lead chokes up you get nothing back up the line you can hit a bed of weed on the cast more times than not.

I put the deeper out find something to aim at clip up swap the deeper for a big lead or rake fire it back out and see how she drops I wrap up after that and put my rod a bait out.

[kevtaylor]

On 07/07/2023 at 16:46, framey said:

No you won’t 

a wrap could be 1 ft 12 foot or 100 foot 

just set them up exactly as you did before using the same distance between them the rod length makes no difference 

Spot on - Just add an additional 2 foot for the difference in rod length. if still doing 12ft sticks.

[Golden Paws]

I struggle to understand how people get confused about whether they have got 10 foot or 12 foot rods. Most distance sticks come with a cord set at 12 foot and I always use it. I do tend to work in wraps and save distances in my notebook using that, it's simple enough to times it by 4 to get yards if you need to. Using metres adds to the confusion!

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, Golden Paws said:

I struggle to understand how people get confused about whether they have got 10 foot or 12 foot rods. Most distance sticks come with a cord set at 12 foot and I always use it. I do tend to work in wraps and save distances in my notebook using that, it's simple enough to times it by 4 to get yards if you need to. Using metres adds to the confusion!

I was brought up with metric at primary school, carried on at high school and on signing up cleaned and fired 7.62mm rifles...

The confusion arises because we are supposed to be metric, but other than the Falklands, the only battle Margaret Thatcher won was against the European Common Market in keeping Roman Imperial measurements for UK sales, but now the metric has to be the first unit shown.

You don't run a 110yard race, nor a 440yard, it's 100 or 400metres.

 

I actually think that the 1000 yards being a mile was from Roman soldiers, 1pace (left and right).

The foot came from a king, the size of his, 3 equalling a yard.

As for a metre, it's a particular percentage of the total distance totally round the earth from North Pole to North Pole, and being decimal, a 1000millimetres  (mm) or 100centimetres (cm) equals a metre.

 

 

When I use sticks, I simply use a rod length, and I enjoy working out the times round the sticks x 3.66 (actual 3.658) to come up with the actual proper distance.

With that though you are talking to the person who enjoys playing with mathematical calculations for fun.

[framey]

2 hours ago, Golden Paws said:

I struggle to understand how people get confused about whether they have got 10 foot or 12 foot rods. Most distance sticks come with a cord set at 12 foot and I always use it. I do tend to work in wraps and save distances in my notebook using that, it's simple enough to times it by 4 to get yards if you need to. Using metres adds to the confusion!

Exactly this…

6ft, 9ft,13ft rod length makes no difference to a wrap length.

unless,

you have no cord

any other way, add up wrong and you could be in a tree or 50 yards short lol

[salokcinnodrog]

13 hours ago, framey said:

Exactly this…

6ft, 9ft,13ft rod length makes no difference to a wrap length.

unless,

you have no cord

any other way, add up wrong and you could be in a tree or 50 yards short lol

@framey,

I can understand the confusion, because arithmetic is a dying subject, nearly as dead as Latin...

 

I think that possibly most sticks don't come with a cord, so the angler (a) uses his normal rod to set them around 3.66m, 12feet apart, as originally done in the Carp Championship.

No matter what length fishing  rod  used, the number of wraps is the same.

Easy figures, 10 'wraps' times 3.66m equals 36.6m distance

 

However, we have another angler who has 10feet rods, puts his distance sticks at 3m or 10feet apart, so the number of wraps he uses is different.

10 wraps times 3.04m equals 30.4m.

 

 

And this is the whole point of the thread, a wrap is NOT a distance measurement, which to many it has become.

It is why I and @Golden Paws use real measurement distances, whether we prefer imperial or metric.

 

And after that explanation and point ban him...

 

 

[yonny]

God knows how this thread has got so many posts🤣

Nick, your taking all this far too literally. A wrap is a term commonly used throughout the carp angling fraternity to describe a 12ft increment for casting.

Your post is of course technically accurate, albeit obvious to the point of condescending (no-one is confused🤣), and some guys may choose to put their sticks less or more than 12 ft apart. But when guys refer to wraps, 99.9 % of them mean 12 ft increments. 

3 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

a wrap is NOT a distance measurement, which to many it has become.

This is the point mate. To almost everyone, it has become a distance measurement. Call it slang for 12 ft.

If you prefer to use metres crack on, no-one has an issue with that. I personally couldn't care less what guys use to measure distance. A wrap is as good as 12 ft is as good as 4y is as good as 3.66m as far as I'm concerned.

[carpepecheur]

Here is a quote from an article in the 1911 issue of The American Angler that provides an early example of the use of the term "wraps" in the context of casting distance:

"The distance of a cast is determined by the number of wraps the line makes on the reel. A good caster can make 100 wraps, or more, with a light fly rod."

So the term “wraps” is not at all confusing???

Here in France we only have the metre - as do most of the rest of the World.

Colin Willock (the first editor of The Angling Times) wrote a book called “Rod, Pole or Perch”. Although the subject was angling, the title referred specifically to units of distance measurement. If Sir Jacob William Rees-Mogg gets his way you will be back to using these units as well.

bon chance

[Golden Paws]

We still weigh fish in pounds and ounces whereas on the Continent they use kilo's, I don't think Jacob Rees Mogg is losing too much sleep over that.

The reel method is slightly flawed as you will put on more line is the spool is nearly full compared to if you already have 100 yards out, (not metres Nick!) The 12 foot cord is far more accurate and reproducible.

[framey]

8 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

@framey,

I can understand the confusion, because arithmetic is a dying subject, nearly as dead as Latin...

 

I think that possibly most sticks don't come with a cord, so the angler (a) uses his normal rod to set them around 3.66m, 12feet apart, as originally done in the Carp Championship.

No matter what length fishing  rod  used, the number of wraps is the same.

Easy figures, 10 'wraps' times 3.66m equals 36.6m distance

 

However, we have another angler who has 10feet rods, puts his distance sticks at 3m or 10feet apart, so the number of wraps he uses is different.

10 wraps times 3.04m equals 30.4m.

 

 

And this is the whole point of the thread, a wrap is NOT a distance measurement, which to many it has become.

It is why I and @Golden Paws use real measurement distances, whether we prefer imperial or metric.

 

And after that explanation and point ban him...

 

 

I think you may find that distance sticks, wrap sticks what ever you want to call them do actually come with a cord.

I have a set in each of my set ups and they all came with a cord

so 

It doesn’t matter if you pick up an old snotty piece of string from the bank or shed and make a measurement with that it doesn’t matter how long it is as long as you set it up to the same distance every time you use it.

6” 

6’ 

10’ 

50 ‘ 

 

it really doesn’t matter unless you tell anyone else your wrap measurement

 

its not difficult lol

Edited July 20, 2023 by framey

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, framey said:

I think you may find that distance sticks, wrap sticks what ever you want to call them do actually come with a cord.

I have a set in each of my set ups and they all came with a cord

so 

It doesn’t matter if you pick up an old snotty piece of string from the bank or shed and make a measurement with that it doesn’t matter how long it is as long as you set it up to the same distance every time you use it.

6” 

6’ 

10’ 

50 ‘ 

 

it really doesn’t matter unless you tell anyone else your wrap measurement

 

its not difficult lol

And the cord length of those that come with a cord, because not all do?

After digging through various adverts Some are 4m, some 12feet, some 10feet, so a wrap is not a guaranteed distance.

In other words, to be sure you still have to convert to your preferred genuine measurement.

It may be slang, but to be honest I rarely use slang in my everyday speech anyway, expletives maybe, usually aimed at swans and tufties.

 

@carpepecheur makes the point, almost every country uses metres as base unit of measurement, USA being an exception, but even then for scientific or aeronautical after an imperial measurement being used on a space shuttle.

Mind you, an American gallon is different to a British gallon, and an American pint is different to an English pint.

 

[framey]

4 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

And the cord length of those that come with a cord, because not all do?

After digging through various adverts Some are 4m, some 12feet, some 10feet, so a wrap is not a guaranteed distance.

 

That’s what we have been saying a wrap is a wrap, length of which doesn’t matter

its your decision to what the wrap is to you..

mine are all 12 foot because that’s the measure I use 

 

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, framey said:

That’s what we have been saying a wrap is a wrap, length of which doesn’t matter

its your decision to what the wrap is to you..

mine are all 12 foot because that’s the measure I use 

 

That's the thing, a wrap is only relative to the individual angler, it is not universal. Metres (or yards) are pretty much universal, understood worldwide. That's what I have been saying.

Even if you do go back to imperial, a yard can be converted to metres. A 'wrap' of 10feet is different to a wrap of 12feet, and is different to a 4metre wrap.

 

My point on slang, a Dutchman, a German who speaks English is not going to understand slang, they do not all understand the concept of using the 'haven't,  won't, don't for have not, will not or do not, so slang is definitely 'verboten'.

 

A wrap can be confused even further,  so becomes even more meaningless:

I use a particular spot on the bank to cast, because I measured/marked the spot I'm fishing weeks or months ago. 

Purely as an example, If I said I'm fishing at 12 wraps at what point does the angler I'm talking to use?

Does he use the edge of the water? Or is it from where I cast?

15months ago, I learnt some of the feeding holes, and I measured from the high water mark. If I gave that spot to another angler in wraps, he could miss it by miles. Give it to him in metres, he can get it.

I'm actually casting from the same spot I used last year, yet now I'm 2rod lengths up the bank, so that's at least 2 wraps out to his casting. He might not know how the water level has changed.

On a gravel bar that means a miss is as good as a mile.

Using a Sky pic as an example, that's 10metres of difference between high and low water. Wraps from high water are totally irrelevant.

Even on a 'normal' lake, you can see the level difference. Where Sky is keeping  cool in the soft rush, I was standing netting fish April 2022!

 

Give an angler a distance, chances are he'll 'measure' it from the water level. You would automatically say "it is 40metres out".

 

 

 

 

 

 

[carpepecheur]

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'' 

                      ..... Lewis Carroll - Alice in Wonderland"

 

 

The problem comes when you try to communicate your meaning to someone else. If you say “wraps” you get into the discussion that we see in this thread. If you say “metres” there can be no discussion as the definition has existed since 1791

 

However, many people seem to be more comfortable using Carpspeak.

 

10 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Does he use the edge of the water? Or is it from where I cast?

 

I am embarrassed to say that I made exactly that mistake when the tide went out during a dry spell on a huge reservoir I was fishing and my catches decreased considerably. You make a relevant point.

Edited July 21, 2023 by carpepecheur

[elmoputney]

Not using wraps is just fishing with the handbrake on in my opinion. Make life so much easier tbh and one of the greatest inventions in modern carp fishing. And only having to count into double digits makes life so much easier it's a no brainer. 

Although recently I have also started using a marker set up again. So now I can find a spot with a marker. Wrap it up the next stage is a leading rod so I can interrogate the spot I've just found around the marker. 

I think deepers can be great to a point but I've gone off mine recently though and just stopped using it. I think the rudd play havoc with it and give you false readings that look like weed, I also found it made me want to spend ages trying to find the perfect spot, whereas most of the time they don't exist and bait can quickly make an OK spot better that's where the rudd are quite handy 😂

To me a wrap is 12ft btw all the sticks I've owned come with a 12ft cord 

Someone asked me to do a review on these when I got them, 

Best £12 you will spend on wrap sticks tbh, they are thin and go in most grounds well and they are solid work a treat. Only down side they are quite short but that doesn't bother me really as i rarely need to go more then 21 wraps 

[framey]

6 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Not using wraps is just fishing with the handbrake on in my opinion. Make life so much easier tbh and one of the greatest inventions in modern carp fishing. And only having to count into double digits makes life so much easier it's a no brainer. 

Although recently I have also started using a marker set up again. So now I can find a spot with a marker. Wrap it up the next stage is a leading rod so I can interrogate the spot I've just found around the marker. 

I think deepers can be great to a point but I've gone off mine recently though and just stopped using it. I think the rudd play havoc with it and give you false readings that look like weed, I also found it made me want to spend ages trying to find the perfect spot, whereas most of the time they don't exist and bait can quickly make an OK spot better that's where the rudd are quite handy 😂

To me a wrap is 12ft btw all the sticks I've owned come with a 12ft cord 

Someone asked me to do a review on these when I got them, 

Best £12 you will spend on wrap sticks tbh, they are thin and go in most grounds well and they are solid work a treat. Only down side they are quite short but that doesn't bother me really as i rarely need to go more then 21 wraps 

But did you measure the cord…

 

 

 

 

lol

Edited July 24, 2023 by framey