Boilie price drops, why?

[Dicky123]

Guys I'm seeing price drops on boilies everywhere, does anyone know the reason why? 10 kilo of Nash Instant for £33? I may buy some of my favourite bait, not as cheap as above but still £20 off 5 kilo?

[elmoputney]

2 hours ago, Dicky123 said:

Guys I'm seeing price drops on boilies everywhere, does anyone know the reason why? 10 kilo of Nash Instant for £33? I may buy some of my favourite bait, not as cheap as above but still £20 off 5 kilo?

I should think its just the last push for bait Companies as they probably slow right down in winter, and make and sell less, 

What bait do you use? I wouldn't switch to Nash instant action,would rather use a proper food bait still 

[...]

2 hours ago, Dicky123 said:

Guys I'm seeing price drops on boilies everywhere, does anyone know the reason why? 10 kilo of Nash Instant for £33? I may buy some of my favourite bait, not as cheap as above but still £20 off 5 kilo?

I've not seen any difference in Sticky prices? 🤔

[elmoputney]

2 minutes ago, Highy said:

I've not seen any difference in Sticky prices? 🤔

They probably don't need to as loads of people use it 

[Dicky123]

Nash Scopex squid and The Source have both worked for me in the past very well. Just got 10 kilo for £79. of the Nash bait, I'm happy paying £ under £8 pound a kilo for a quality baits and for me its stood the test of time, like the Source has for me Buddy. 

 

On 01/09/2021 at 14:51, elmoputney said:

They probably don't need to as loads of people use it 

The self for-filling bait prophecy then mate?😆

[...]

Sticky Manilla in Winter, at moment using Sticky Krill. 

Both done me well so far, used be on Nash Candy Nut but not no more. 

[elmoputney]

20 minutes ago, Dicky123 said:

Nash Scopex squid and The Source have both worked for me in the past very well. Just got 10 kilo for £79. of the Nash bait, I'm happy paying £ under £8 pound a kilo for a quality baits and for me its stood the test of time, like the Source has for me Buddy. 

I used to use the source years ago, and Julian Cundiff doesn't half catch a lot on the scopex squid but I've never used it myself, I pay £7 a kilo from retro baits, you just have to go with what you are confident in though 👍

[kevtaylor]

1 hour ago, Dicky123 said:

Nash Scopex squid and The Source have both worked for me in the past very well. Just got 10 kilo for £79. of the Nash bait, I'm happy paying £ under £8 pound a kilo for a quality baits and for me its stood the test of time, like the Source has for me Buddy. 

Pretty sure you could get 10k of CCMoore or Premier Baits boilies for a little less than that normally and the quality difference I would of thought is huge. 

[...]

8 minutes ago, kevtaylor said:

Pretty sure you could get 10k of CCMoore or Premier Baits boilies for a little less than that normally and the quality difference I would of thought is huge. 

 

3 hours ago, Dicky123 said:

Guys I'm seeing price drops on boilies everywhere, does anyone know the reason why? 10 kilo of Nash Instant for £33? I may buy some of my favourite bait, not as cheap as above but still £20 off 5 kilo?

https://ccmoore.com/live-system-bundle-deals/336-3240-10kg-live-system-boilies-hookbaits-liquid-food#

 

[kevtaylor]

11 minutes ago, Highy said:

 

https://ccmoore.com/live-system-bundle-deals/336-3240-10kg-live-system-boilies-hookbaits-liquid-food#

 

Exactly - good deal that, gotta say I've gone on XXX this year having been on Premier for many many years, just for a change really.  Well the GLM content is very noticeable - that's not a cheap bait to put together for sure, seems proper quality to me.

[Dicky123]

Its all about what you have confidence in, and I'm very old school sticking to stuff I know buddy. 

[kevtaylor]

41 minutes ago, Dicky123 said:

Its all about what you have confidence in, and I'm very old school sticking to stuff I know buddy. 

Fair play mate stick to what you like - however baits you  can get in a shop are never as good as smaller outfits in terms in expensive additives.  Look at Asylum Baits for example - using only the best of the best ingredients.  I'd rather pay for bait contents than packaging 👍

[bluelabel]

Ours not to reason Why... ours just to catch and buy... ( more)🤣😛

[elmoputney]

5 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

Exactly - good deal that, gotta say I've gone on XXX this year having been on Premier for many many years, just for a change really.  Well the GLM content is very noticeable - that's not a cheap bait to put together for sure, seems proper quality to me.

If you are a crypography member you can get 10% discount off CC Moore each time you order 

[greekskii]

If boilie prices are going down whilst ingredient prices go up then it’s either selling off old stock or the quality is taking a hit. 

[welder]

8 hours ago, greekskii said:

If boilie prices are going down whilst ingredient prices go up then it’s either selling off old stock or the quality is taking a hit. 

Or the manufacturers are taking a hit on their profits to make the product seem better value?

Ian.

[Dicky123]

On 01/09/2021 at 19:16, kevtaylor said:

Fair play mate stick to what you like - however baits you  can get in a shop are never as good as smaller outfits in terms in expensive additives.  Look at Asylum Baits for example - using only the best of the best ingredients.  I'd rather pay for bait contents than packaging 👍

To be honest Kev, I don't know how you can how you can say that. Nash and Mainline for example are found in shops and produce some of the best baits out there, as do Dynamite. This "best ingredients" is a red herring in my humble opinion. Carp will eat almost anything, and unless you can do a long term baiting programme, I don't believe they can tell what the best bait for them. I'll say that because we as humans with big brains don't' know whats good for us, by just eating something. It's only because we are told apples and bananas are good for our health do we know. Can we honestly eat a McDonalds and know it's bad for us? No, it's all hype on the bait making front, people don't apply any logic Kev, people that in normal circumstances use common sense seem to get caught up in the adverts. If anyone can prove that carp or humans KNOW that they are eating something good for them, then I'll change my view, however until then, I'll use a bait I catch fish on, and not one that catches anglers Kev?  I'm sure the bait you use are good as you would not use them other-wise. Best wishes buddy Richard. 

[kevtaylor]

1 hour ago, Dicky123 said:

To be honest Kev, I don't know how you can how you can say that. Nash and Mainline for example are found in shops and produce some of the best baits out there, as do Dynamite. This "best ingredients" is a red herring in my humble opinion. Carp will eat almost anything, and unless you can do a long term baiting programme, I don't believe they can tell what the best bait for them. I'll say that because we as humans with big brains don't' know whats good for us, by just eating something. It's only because we are told apples and bananas are good for our health do we know. Can we honestly eat a McDonalds and know it's bad for us? No, it's all hype on the bait making front, people don't apply any logic Kev, people that in normal circumstances use common sense seem to get caught up in the adverts. If anyone can prove that carp or humans KNOW that they are eating something good for them, then I'll change my view, however until then, I'll use a bait I catch fish on, and not one that catches anglers Kev?  I'm sure the bait you use are good as you would not use them other-wise. Best wishes buddy Richard. 

OK Rich, well I don't know anyone who uses or bigs up Nash or Mainline except someone who gets it free or is paid to say so.  What I hear is cheap contents, effective liquid attractors.  Like you say carp eat any old rubbish but that doesn't mean other baits aren't better for the fish and will be recognised as such long term.

I read up about bait contents not listening to who shouts loudest, mass production is never as good as your smaller producers who worry about quality not saturating the market.

I would pay double what I pay if I believed it gave me a real advantage.  You asked why is there cheap deals on - IMO the answer is partly because it can be, whereas expensive to produce bait cannot be. 👍

[Dicky123]

Exactly, its what you hear Kev, and who do you hear it from? People don't have the money now days to invest in long term campaigns like then old days, and even then cheaper fishmeal and such have replaced the true HNV baits. I've been fishing for carp off and on for 50 years, now 70 and can honestly say the fish don't know one good bait from another poor bait? I notice you did not mention what I wrote as about humans, and knowing quality food, if we don't know how can a carp buddy? I use to make all my own bait, but once I realised the complete waste of time in it (being I could never make enough to make a difference) I started buying bait. As for you don't know who bigs up on Mainline or Nash you should visit their web-site and see. I know you will say: "Oh they are paid to say that," but so are the boys from CC Moores. I just don't believe now days with all the cheaper additives in ALL baits like fishmeal and birdseeds, soya, nut meals, any can claim one bait is better than another. Its all about you and your confidence and skill-set. I'm not arguing with you, its a gentle banter two carp anglers having a disagreement about something we are both passionate about, its good for us to friendly disagree. I use to buy from Hutch his hit and run, and he told me exactly what was in it, a true HNV bait, but it caught me no more fish than Richworth tutty fruity? Did I feel I was helping the fish in some way, sure I did, but it was a false claim. If a fish picks up a cheap holiday made boilie  made with soya, and a quality bait, how does sit know what one is the better for it. It's impossible, impossible for a carp to know, as it would be for a human. I'm sorry to say there is so much big money and hype in carp fishing being made by just a few people, the rest of us are simply being taken for a ride, me too?  I blanked yesterday, maybe a sign the autumn is on the way, best regards, Richard.

[kevtaylor]

5 hours ago, Dicky123 said:

Exactly, its what you hear Kev, and who do you hear it from? People don't have the money now days to invest in long term campaigns like then old days, and even then cheaper fishmeal and such have replaced the true HNV baits. I've been fishing for carp off and on for 50 years, now 70 and can honestly say the fish don't know one good bait from another poor bait? I notice you did not mention what I wrote as about humans, and knowing quality food, if we don't know how can a carp buddy? I use to make all my own bait, but once I realised the complete waste of time in it (being I could never make enough to make a difference) I started buying bait. As for you don't know who bigs up on Mainline or Nash you should visit their web-site and see. I know you will say: "Oh they are paid to say that," but so are the boys from CC Moores. I just don't believe now days with all the cheaper additives in ALL baits like fishmeal and birdseeds, soya, nut meals, any can claim one bait is better than another. Its all about you and your confidence and skill-set. I'm not arguing with you, its a gentle banter two carp anglers having a disagreement about something we are both passionate about, its good for us to friendly disagree. I use to buy from Hutch his hit and run, and he told me exactly what was in it, a true HNV bait, but it caught me no more fish than Richworth tutty fruity? Did I feel I was helping the fish in some way, sure I did, but it was a false claim. If a fish picks up a cheap holiday made boilie  made with soya, and a quality bait, how does sit know what one is the better for it. It's impossible, impossible for a carp to know, as it would be for a human. I'm sorry to say there is so much big money and hype in carp fishing being made by just a few people, the rest of us are simply being taken for a ride, me too?  I blanked yesterday, maybe a sign the autumn is on the way, best regards, Richard.

Like it- I'm with you on most of that - as for the human part, well if I ate McDonalds now it would be out quicker than it went in - but that's not always been the case, hence my chicken and veg comments on another thread, so my body knows or just cant take the richness - problems due to age lol

If baits are everywhere and fish eat them all then yes I can relate to what you're saying - how would they know which one was good for them and which gave them the squits so to speak.

I hear all the my bait is best this and that, it's a minefield, I was with Premier using Aminos for maybe 30 years and no complaints whatsoever - caught everywhere and would continue to do so forever no doubt.

Since leaving a syndicate I've been on Bluebell, targeting ideally Kingfisher if I can get on, arguably one of the most pressured waters in the country.  Lots of evidence of uneaten bait and lots of comments backing that up, so for me I've had to think - is what I'm using as attractive as the best baits that have gone in there? - so I switched to xxx because I like the GLM content, because of that it's not a cheap bait to put together. I have also looked at smaller companies such as Asylum with the same thinking in mind, but opted for CCMoore as they seem to do great liquids too and I can get everything from one place with some confidence.

If however I was fishing a highly stocked venue such as Drayton Res, a real runs water, I am certain those thoughts wouldn't enter my head, any bait would do and better bait would probably give zero advantage, where volume would. 👍

[salokcinnodrog]

I honestly do believe a better bait will out fish a rubbish bait, but as @kevtaylor pointed out the water itself will make a difference. Fish a rich water where bait may not need to be eaten and you want a decent bait. Fish an overstocked water (and to be honest, most are) any bait may catch. 

Humans can choose what they eat by thinking, they can choose to eat healthily or not. Carp don't have that choice, Survival, then health. They have to eat what is available, natural food, or pellets or boilies, or maybe particles, even more so in a high stocked environment. 

I have seen good baits 'dominate' a water, the right bait outproducing every other bait used to the extent of that bait being almost the only one that caught, and it was not particularly heavily baited, around 1kg a week, after an initial 20kg in 2 weeks.

Yet Mainline baits have also dominated waters, the Essex Grange, the original Grange CSL, not a bad bait, Activ8, not bad. The Cell, not so good.

There is a difference in quality between the bait companies. Some 'Joe Bloggs' garage specials can be produced for exactly the same as the Bait Baron bait, Nash, Mainline etc, but you forget Nash, Mainline are sold nationwide. The cost of that bait may well be £4.50 per kilo, Joe can sell it for that. Mainline or Nash might well sell it for that price as well, but the middleman, (wholesaler) puts his bit on it, so it then gets sold at £7.50 per kilo. Tackle shop buys it, final selling price is £10.99 per kilo. NOT every tackle shop buys direct from Mainline or Nash etc. In the interests of retail the RRP of all shops is £10.99. So Mainline might have different price bands depending on who they sell to, or selling to a shop directly at £4.50, the shop may be able to sell at a big discount. Is the bait market fair? 

Most definitely not! 

I can tell you for 100% fact that Crafty Catcher boilies are sold in the Gladwell's shop, right next to the Crafty Catcher factory, Gladwell's own Crafty Catcher, for exactly the same price retail as most tackle shops that sell them.

I bet most bait companies with retail outlets adjacent as part of the company are the same. 

There is an element of price fixing!

Baits can be discounted for various reasons:

Get rid of, it is not a good seller. 

End of line

Make way for the new stock, either new product or newer model. 

Discount to increase interest, loss leader

Or even nearing end of life, even frozen goods have a life. 

 

 

 

 

[Dicky123]

On 04/09/2021 at 01:21, salokcinnodrog said:

I honestly do believe a better bait will out fish a rubbish bait, but as @kevtaylor pointed out the water itself will make a difference. Fish a rich water where bait may not need to be eaten and you want a decent bait. Fish an overstocked water (and to be honest, most are) any bait may catch. 

Humans can choose what they eat by thinking, they can choose to eat healthily or not. Carp don't have that choice, Survival, then health. They have to eat what is available, natural food, or pellets or boilies, or maybe particles, even more so in a high stocked environment. 

I have seen good baits 'dominate' a water, the right bait outproducing every other bait used to the extent of that bait being almost the only one that caught, and it was not particularly heavily baited, around 1kg a week, after an initial 20kg in 2 weeks.

Yet Mainline baits have also dominated waters, the Essex Grange, the original Grange CSL, not a bad bait, Activ8, not bad. The Cell, not so good.

There is a difference in quality between the bait companies. Some 'Joe Bloggs' garage specials can be produced for exactly the same as the Bait Baron bait, Nash, Mainline etc, but you forget Nash, Mainline are sold nationwide. The cost of that bait may well be £4.50 per kilo, Joe can sell it for that. Mainline or Nash might well sell it for that price as well, but the middleman, (wholesaler) puts his bit on it, so it then gets sold at £7.50 per kilo. Tackle shop buys it, final selling price is £10.99 per kilo. NOT every tackle shop buys direct from Mainline or Nash etc. In the interests of retail the RRP of all shops is £10.99. So Mainline might have different price bands depending on who they sell to, or selling to a shop directly at £4.50, the shop may be able to sell at a big discount. Is the bait market fair? 

Most definitely not! 

I can tell you for 100% fact that Crafty Catcher boilies are sold in the Gladwell's shop, right next to the Crafty Catcher factory, Gladwell's own Crafty Catcher, for exactly the same price retail as most tackle shops that sell them.

I bet most bait companies with retail outlets adjacent as part of the company are the same. 

There is an element of price fixing!

Baits can be discounted for various reasons:

Get rid of, it is not a good seller. 

End of line

Make way for the new stock, either new product or newer model. 

Discount to increase interest, loss leader

Or even nearing end of life, even frozen goods have a life. 

 

 

 

 

 

.😄

Sorry, but the whole premise of quality bait is flawed. It may help you fish more confidently, but it's not the bait doing that. If you re-read my post, I also mention the old days of baits dominating waters, but there was no "other test" done against it. If you want a proper trial, you would have to bait exactly the same with a cheaper bait, I'm not talking stinky winky baits. People like Maddocks and Paisley had the old HNV baits and were often the only people baiting their waters, so naturally the bait worked. But the little guy in the corner fishing Tiger nuts was doing just as well? And normally you only hear about good bait from people selling them. You mentioned the Cell bait as a cheap bait, but that worked and worked on any water, why? Lots of people using it maybe, another factor you would have to include if making a scientific claim about quality baits and carp knowing them? Nash have just re-released their popular scopex squid again, why, it sells and is a good bait, catches fish. 

 

If you read the list of ingredients on bait now days they all read the same, fishmeal, or other meals. CC Moore have their main ingredient as Robin Red, so mostly seed based. They also site tuna, but again its just fish meal.  Problem is you can only ever site your views and feelings and those of others, nothing scientific. The old days you may remember of HNV baits were different, but a carp would still pick up a tiger nut that did it little good at all. Sorry I'm just not convinced carp know a quality bait from another. But it's an interesting debate, sure you agree

[elmoputney]

I think you might get one or two bites on a cheap low nutrition bait, but if you want to regularly catch a decent food source bait would do better and certainly work for a longer period of time, I think a lot of good baits nowadays seem to have decent vitamin content,and also other health benefits, and I think that will keep them all coming back, and if there are additives that will do them some good and make them feel better they will keep eating it, 

I went gluten free once and ate really healthily much like Kev, and after a week I felt amazing, healthy, clean more focused, just really good, now I eat all manner of junk again I feel sluggish and slow get depressed more easily and don't feel good, you can tell when you eat well, however you can also get addicted to the wrong things, 

My analogy is you might walk past the chip shop everyday but you don't always like the smell, occasionally you quite fancy some but then you don't want them again for a long while, whereas meat and veg type things give you the right fuel and you would want to eat them more as you know they will do you good 

Now @Highy and the northerners like the occasional Wigan kebab but they wouldn't eat them daily would they????????? 

Edited September 4, 2021 by elmoputney

[...]

5 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

I think you might get one or two bites on a cheap low nutrition bait, but if you want to regularly catch a decent food source bait would do better and certainly work for a longer period of time, I think a lot of good baits nowadays seem to have decent vitamin content,and also other health benefits, and I think that will keep them all coming back, and if there are additives that will do them some good and make them feel better they will keep eating it, 

I went gluten free once and ate really healthily much like Kev, and after a week I felt amazing, healthy, clean more focused, just really good, now I eat all manner of junk again I feel sluggish and slow get depressed more easily and don't feel good, you can tell when you eat well, however you can also get addicted to the wrong things, 

My analogy is you might walk past the chip shop everyday but you don't always like the smell, occasionally you quite fancy some but then you don't want them again for a long while, whereas meat and veg type things give you the right fuel and you would want to eat them more as you know they will do you good 

Now @Highy and the northerners like the occasional Wigan kebab but they wouldn't eat them daily would they????????? 

Don't knock em pal, think I've had a good 3/4 this week, Meat n Tato pie on a barm cake with red sauce.... Oo ey

[salokcinnodrog]

On 04/09/2021 at 10:07, Dicky123 said:

Sorry, but the whole premise of quality bait is flawed. It may help you fish more confidently, but it's not the bait doing that. If you re-read my post, I also mention the old days of baits dominating waters, but there was no "other test" done against it. If you want a proper trial, you would have to bait exactly the same with a cheaper bait, I'm not talking stinky winky baits. People like Maddocks and Paisley had the old HNV baits and were often the only people baiting their waters, so naturally the bait worked. But the little guy in the corner fishing Tiger nuts was doing just as well? And normally you only hear about good bait from people selling them. You mentioned the Cell bait as a cheap bait, but that worked and worked on any water, why? Lots of people using it maybe, another factor you would have to include if making a scientific claim about quality baits and carp knowing them? Nash have just re-released their popular scopex squid again, why, it sells and is a good bait, catches fish. 

 

If you read the list of ingredients on bait now days they all read the same, fishmeal, or other meals. CC Moore have their main ingredient as Robin Red, so mostly seed based. They also site tuna, but again its just fish meal.  Problem is you can only ever site your views and feelings and those of others, nothing scientific. The old days you may remember of HNV baits were different, but a carp would still pick up a tiger nut that did it little good at all. Sorry I'm just not convinced carp know a quality bait from another. But it's an interesting debate, sure you agree

You are ignoring the type of water, and parts of the whole of nutrition. 

I know that Tim Paisley DID fish against other baits at Waveney on his trips there, his bait had to compete against local angler's, some of whom were researching baits (at Lowestoft Fish Research) and holidaymakers. I know that Premier Baits in the 1990's were out fishing other baits on the Darenth complex. 

Savay, Kevin Maddocks, Rod Hutchinson and Andy Little, good baits out fishing other angler's. 

On Earith the bait that Bruce and I had outfished other baits to other angler's, AND hi-vi's and hi-attract that we fished at times to try to provoke a take in colder weather. Other anglers to get takes had to go buy a bag of Trigga, I kid you not. Bruce and my bait was Trigga with a twist... 

This thing about nutrition and tiger nuts (and peanuts); the nuts themselves are addictive to carp, they will eat them to the exclusion of other baits, until death. They contain very little useable nutrition, only that that can be digested off the surface. 

In nutrition, the FIRST requirement is energy, whether that is provided by protein, fat or carbohydrates. YOU need the energy to digest the rest of your food, as do carp. 

Most waters are overstocked, the fish NEED to eat bait to survive, and that is any bait that goes in. There are very few waters now rich enough in natural food to support the fish stocks present in them. 

Baits also work in conjunction with other baits. Particles provide energy, vegetable fats and carbohydrates, higher protein boilies provide protein. 

You have this thing for fishmeal; a very good ingredient, it is high in protein, useable animal protein, providing almost every required amino acid. It is an attractor in its own right, it is why fishmeal boilies work so well. Vegetable, nut (legume) meal even maize meal do not provide as good as useable protein, they are missing a few required amino acids.

There is one non meat protein that contains every essential amino acid, and that is yeast. 

As for Cell, a bird food and coconut base with a yeast background. Ring a bell here? 

 

The amount of protein does not need to be massively high, the days of 45/50% are long gone. As an example, humans need no more than 75grammes of protein a day. 

As anglers a kilo of food source boilies need not provide anymore protein than 300grams, and it is likely that kilo will be shared by more than 1 fish! 

Protein is required for tissue repair and growth. If carp don't get enough protein then they cannot grow to their maximum. There are many waters full of carp no bigger than double figures, simply because: a) there are too many fish, b) they aren't getting enough food to grow. 

Provide a better bait or thin the numbers they will start to grow, unless they have become permanently stunted.