Leader bans (leadcore, unleaded leader)

[motherhooker]

I'm getting tired of seeing all these rigs using these materials advertised and vids showing the latest rig. Meanwhile back in the real world most places including club waters they are banned. Why don't these tackle innovators really bring out better stuff rather than just a nod to probably a bigger market. Just feel this needs to be addressed 

 

Thanks 

Ian

[Its-grim-up-north]

Easy thing to get around really, use the rig on your mainline with a few bits of putty on to help it stick to the bottom.  

Edited December 2, 2019 by Its-grim-up-north

[yonny]

10 hours ago, motherhooker said:

Meanwhile back in the real world most places including club waters they are banned.

On most club waters and day tickets leaders are banned due to the standard of angler. Many cannot be trusted to use such items of tackle safely.

On most half decent syndicates, that vet their members, they are allowed.

10 hours ago, motherhooker said:

Just feel this needs to be addressed

I agree. For me it should be the anglers misusing such items of tackle that should be banned, not the items of tackle themselves.

[bluelabel]

Given the lack of bailiff attendance on some waters I have to question any rules on some of these commercials... one venue I used to use the bloke came round took the money and wobbled off... no rig checks at all and it seems that a lot of waters are the same... just what is the point in having a nicely painted board with a carefully drawn up list of rules designed to protect the fish's welfare when the bailiff chuggs round on a quad and can't even be bothered to get off the quad to take your cash let alone check your rigs

[yonny]

3 minutes ago, bluelabel said:

what is the point in having a nicely painted board with a carefully drawn up list of rules designed to protect the fish's welfare when the bailiff chuggs round on a quad and can't even be bothered to get off the quad to take your cash let alone check your rigs

I totally agree. Rules alone cannot stop idiots.

[greekskii]

1 hour ago, bluelabel said:

Given the lack of bailiff attendance on some waters I have to question any rules on some of these commercials... one venue I used to use the bloke came round took the money and wobbled off... no rig checks at all and it seems that a lot of waters are the same... just what is the point in having a nicely painted board with a carefully drawn up list of rules designed to protect the fish's welfare when the bailiff chuggs round on a quad and can't even be bothered to get off the quad to take your cash let alone check your rigs

agreed, but I suppose many angles will abide by the rules because they read them. 

I wont lie, I dont follow the rules if I think they are stupid. I am confident in how I fish with leaders and barbed hooks to know I am not using them stupidly (why the rule is in place) and endangering fish. 

[yonny]

2 minutes ago, greekskii said:

barbed hooks

I'm normally pretty good when it comes to following rules but I will admit that I'll ignore a barbless hooks rule if I think I can get away with it, particularly on weedy waters. Barbless and weed do not mix, it's madness imo.

[greekskii]

1 hour ago, yonny said:

I'm normally pretty good when it comes to following rules but I will admit that I'll ignore a barbless hooks rule if I think I can get away with it, particularly on weedy waters. Barbless and weed do not mix, it's madness imo.

I look at the situation, half the rules these days go against fish safety. Take the estate lake for instance, maximum size 8 barbless hooks. Loads of snags and pads present and the fish fight hard. No wonder a lot of them have awful mouth damage. A size 8 tears out much easier than a size 4. I ignored the barbless & hook size rule. I only lost 4 fish due to proper hook pulls (2 of which were snagged up in the undercut island roots, 1 bend the hook out and the other seemingly bounced out). I lost a bunch at the start of the season but they bounced out quickly and I figured out why and adapted my approach to stop it happening. 

Fish safety wise I feel I did much less damage on hook pulls & captures than size 8 barbless hooks would have done. 

[salokcinnodrog]

15 hours ago, motherhooker said:

I'm getting tired of seeing all these rigs using these materials advertised and vids showing the latest rig. Meanwhile back in the real world most places including club waters they are banned. Why don't these tackle innovators really bring out better stuff rather than just a nod to probably a bigger market. Just feel this needs to be addressed 

 

Thanks 

Ian

I agree with some of your points, some rig pieces sold by manufacturers in my view are not safe, and should not be used. Thing is though tackle manufacturers need to make money, if everything is the same from every manufacturer/brand then the choice may only be the brand you use.

 

However as others have said, sometimes rules are put in place on 'hearsay' rather than fact, but on others are to combat the 'idiot factor'.

Yonny and I disagree on barbless hooks in weed, our opinions; I think that at times barbless hooks are safer, and get better hookholds. I can't recall losing many fish in a weedy water with barbless hooks, but I can recall one hookpull at Earith where I did follow rules. The same rig landed a fish later in the session. It was a size 8 barbless Carp-R-Us Nailer. I honestly think that I had hooked the fish too far forward in the mouth, and under pressure it pulled. I also think I did not have the fish feeding comfortably, not enough bait around the hook.

Rig design with barbless hooks is very important, I personally think you need an extended shank, either a longshank hook with an inturned eye, or an extension with tubing and preferably a line aligner.

 

This is where we come to the 'think for yourself' and tackle manufacturers.

Too many anglers I believe, just follow fashion or fads rather than thinking about their fishing, and manufacturers with their adverts, dvd's or blogs often continue this 'sheep thinking'.

 

I have a big dislike of leaders used improperly, with lead clips that don't release the lead, anything that puts fish at risk.

 

 

[framey]

2 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I agree with some of your points, some rig pieces sold by manufacturers in my view are not safe, and should not be used. Thing is though tackle manufacturers need to make money, if everything is the same from every manufacturer/brand then the choice may only be the brand you use.

 

However as others have said, sometimes rules are put in place on 'hearsay' rather than fact, but on others are to combat the 'idiot factor'.

Yonny and I disagree on barbless hooks in weed, our opinions; I think that at times barbless hooks are safer, and get better hookholds. I can't recall losing many fish in a weedy water with barbless hooks, but I can recall one hookpull at Earith where I did follow rules. The same rig landed a fish later in the session. It was a size 8 barbless Carp-R-Us Nailer. I honestly think that I had hooked the fish too far forward in the mouth, and under pressure it pulled. I also think I did not have the fish feeding comfortably, not enough bait around the hook.

Rig design with barbless hooks is very important, I personally think you need an extended shank, either a longshank hook with an inturned eye, or an extension with tubing and preferably a line aligner.

 

This is where we come to the 'think for yourself' and tackle manufacturers.

Too many anglers I believe, just follow fashion or fads rather than thinking about their fishing, and manufacturers with their adverts, dvd's or blogs often continue this 'sheep thinking'.

 

I have a big dislike of leaders used improperly, with lead clips that don't release the lead, anything that puts fish at risk.

 

 

I pinched a couple of *name removed *lead clips from a mate on Sunday as we were fishing a water with a leader ban and thought they were dodgy as I struggled to get the lead on it.

maybe a use and avoid section on a reviews forum would be a good idea and reasons why it should be avoided not in a bashing way but it might make some manufacturers think about their products more.

 

[bluelabel]

having a hook size rule in my opinion is pointless (sic) because most manufacturers have their own sizes.... and one companies 10 is another's 8 or some such... so what is the point of having a rule to regulate hooksizes when the manufacturers hooksizes are non standard

[framey]

Same water as above 

max hook size is an 8

but I don’t mind you going up to a 7 or a 6 lol

 

WHY !!

Edited December 3, 2019 by framey

[yonny]

7 minutes ago, bluelabel said:

having a hook size rule in my opinion is pointless (sic) because most manufacturers have their own sizes.

Totally agree.

On a similar theme I chuckle at the "micro-barb" only rules. There is no standard for barb size hence there is no such thing as a micro-barb. Basically you could take the biggest barbed hook going and as long as they say micro-barb on the packet they're ok lol.

[ouchthathurt]

I've been using leadcore since the late 90s and I am 100% confident that I am using it safely. I don't agree with stupid lengths of the stuff, nor do I agree that a leadcore leader with a leadclip is a safe option either. I only ever use leadcore or any leader material as a helicopter set up. I also use the helisafe beads and a ring swivel with a large bore so it will pass off the leader if required. I always want my leader and Hooklinks to be able to separate in the event of a snap off, which is why I don't agree with leadclips, it may discharge the lead, but the Hooklinks and leadcore leaders are still attached. As for barbless hooks, I never use them. 

A water I fish at the moment has a leadcore ban, the bailiff told me we do not need leadcore as it's "not even snaggy" eh??? Use leadcore only in heavy snags? Hmmm... Perhaps not. I use leaded tubing at this venue here if needed, although I would rather have my leadcore. 

Another water banned leadcore, but allows lead free leaders... They don't mind the use of a braided leader, but ban the internal lead wire... Can't work that one out myself, they allow you to drop the lead on the take (in a snag free pond) yet don't want the internal lead wire in leadcore entering the water column! 

[yonny]

1 minute ago, ouchthathurt said:

helisafe beads

You mean the No-Trace Beads?

The Helisafe is the jobby that drops the lead.

[motherhooker]

I just don't like using naked set ups, but I'd like to use chod rigs but not really happy naked

 

Ian

[yonny]

9 minutes ago, motherhooker said:

I'd like to use chod rigs but not really happy naked

Why not mate?

[Carpbell_ll]

I haven't used a leader in a fair few years now, don't like them they make landing a cast very awkward plus a lot of my fishing is in margin or snaggy areas, seems to give better presentation on the bottom without a leader, as soon as i stopped using one my catches improved all my bigger fish have fell to a simple helicopter set up on my main line, leader material must really stand out on a margin ledge or hanging over a weedy snag. 

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, Carpbell_ll said:

I haven't used a leader in a fair few years now, don't like them they make landing a cast very awkward plus a lot of my fishing is in margin or snaggy areas, seems to give better presentation on the bottom without a leader, as soon as i stopped using one my catches improved all my bigger fish have fell to a simple helicopter set up on my main line, leader material must really stand out on a margin ledge or hanging over a weedy snag. 

I don't like using a leader either, but this year I had to after I discovered that the bottom was littered with blocks of concrete, bricks, tiles etc, and the possibility of long casting. 30lb Amnesia to 15lb mainline!

 Basically I was fishing in a reservoir that is over old houses, a road and other such.

 

The thicker leader meant I was able to fish, even so I still lost a couple of fish, snapped hooklink and one smashed above the leader on a helicopter set-up. I started a thread on that link below.

 

As I said in that thread, I make sure my lead or rig can be ejected, a large run ring that will pass over any snapped end, or if a helicopter set-up, a rig that can come off the end. You DO NOT want the lead ejected on a helicopter set-up. It is the lead that allows the rig to pull free, so no to Heli-safe for me as I think that is one item that is not safe.

 

[Carpbell_ll]

4 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I don't like using a leader either, but this year I had to after I discovered that the bottom was littered with blocks of concrete, bricks, tiles etc, and the possibility of long casting. 30lb Amnesia to 15lb mainline!

 Basically I was fishing in a reservoir that is over old houses, a road and other such.

 

The thicker leader meant I was able to fish, even so I still lost a couple of fish, snapped hooklink and one smashed above the leader on a helicopter set-up. I started a thread on that link below.

 

As I said in that thread, I make sure my lead or rig can be ejected, a large run ring that will pass over any snapped end, or if a helicopter set-up, a rig that can come off the end. You DO NOT want the lead ejected on a helicopter set-up. It is the lead that allows the rig to pull free, so no to Heli-safe for me as I think that is one item that is not safe.

 

There are a few reservoirs like that about one in Wales has an entire village at the bottom of it you would need a leader in that, think a lot of leader thoughts are based on years back when there wasn't the lines available we have today. the rig moral and gardner shouldn't need a leader on most waters. fluorocarbon lines definitely don't i have really punished the tiger line these last few years, can't fault it other than how crudy it gets.

[ouchthathurt]

On 03/12/2019 at 15:40, yonny said:

You mean the No-Trace Beads?

The Helisafe is the jobby that drops the lead.

Sorry, yeah! The no trace beads! Thanks mate. I agree with the above comments about not dropping the lead on a helicopter set up. I want the weight of the lead to assist with separation of the leader and Hooklink in the event of a crack off.