nigewoodcock Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, oscsha said: I didn't say they have !! Nash are or should be more like Nike as they have a strong brand name the problem is they shoot themselves in the foot quite often , NGT are your primark. The problem for companies the size of Nash is staying innovative in a packed market where every product is copied overnight by other companies. Never said you did mate. Should have quoted as to not imply that xx commonly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 minute ago, oscsha said: Nige your sound to much like a Nash salesman ooops you are Yes, I work for nash but I try to stay away from being biased on here, especially with my title of a moderator. The thoughts I have put down in this thread, and any others, are my own and would be the same if I worked for said company or not. As you will have read, it’s a general point I’m trying to get across, hence the aqua tray comments. that point being - yes, you can buy similar items to some products from outside of the tackle brands, but they probably haven’t been tinkered with, or developed for a nicer sounding word, to suit the angler. Handles on the bore tool, eva tray on the aqua product etc. Another thing to take into account when saying something is a pound cheaper (carp tax as some like to put it), a tool company like rolson (who are a budget brand by the way and coming from a construction background, I wouldn’t use their products), is that they would be buying/selling on a scale of probably 100,000 times more than a fishing manufacturer😉 commonly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greekskii Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 What about the kettles and stoves then? Pay a good few quid extra for a trakker logo on the side? Naughty that. Like Nige says, most of it adapted for anglers in one way or another. But sometimes it’s straight up the same product with a logo on. Or logo taken off. Can not justify that. Tree123 and commonly 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted June 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, nigewoodcock said: Honestly mate, the nash one. £1.50 for it to fit into my tackle box and have an ergonomic, smaller handle than the large rolson one. The rolson one is designed to cut into timber, hence the larger handle. The nash one, suited more for cutting into boilies. Do you really believe that? Or rather have you convinced yourself that? Or even worse, who pays your wages, and be honest, because your bias is noted? Nige, I have had one for years, like the Nash one which I got from Screwfix, the countersinks are designed for wood, which is why they are hardened steel. The difference in handle size is for the size of the hand using it, NOT for what it countersinks into. I could stick a countersink from my drill bit box into any of my removable bit screwdrivers if I needed to. The handle could be Stanley, a generic, or Rolson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 minute ago, salokcinnodrog said: Do you really believe that? Or rather have you convinced yourself that? Or even worse, who pays your wages, and be honest, because your bias is noted? Nige, I have had one for years, like the Nash one which I got from Screwfix, the countersinks are designed for wood, which is why they are hardened steel. The difference in handle size is for the size of the hand using it, NOT for what it countersinks into. I could stick a countersink from my drill bit box into any of my removable bit screwdrivers if I needed to. The handle could be Stanley, a generic, or Rolson. Nick, yes, I would rather pay the extra £1.50, for the reasons I have explained. Larger handle, larger torque, nothing to do with the size of the hand holding it!! You don’t see a screwdriver for use on say a watch or jewellery with a big handle like that on a large slotted driver you would use to screw in the screws on a door hinge. Or are you saying all jewellers have baby hands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted June 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, nigewoodcock said: Nick, yes, I would rather pay the extra £1.50, for the reasons I have explained. Larger handle, larger torque, nothing to do with the size of the hand holding it!! You don’t see a screwdriver for use on say a watch or jewellery with a big handle like that on a large slotted driver you would use to screw in the screws on a door hinge. Or are you saying all jewellers have baby hands? Don't be facetious; jewellery screwdrivers are tightened with fingertips not with hand pressure. My point has been, the countersink itself, the head on that is exactly the same from manufacturer to manufacturer. Come on, admit it, you work for Nash, this is taking the mickey out of anglers. When Rolson or Famag, Screwfix or whoever sell their hand countersinks, none are above £6.20. You by choosing manufacturer can get the handle size or shape you want. I can go into B&Q and buy one from a choice of manufacturers, and I am willing to bet that I could find one in the exact same shape as the Nash one. (Just to say, I have been in B&Q recently as I bought myself a new tile cutter, dowel and edging to renovate a bathroom and make a new bath panel, including countersinking the screw heads). Nash Bore Tool is more expensive than all of the countersink tools on sale there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmanstevo Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 8 hours ago, greekskii said: What about the kettles and stoves then? Pay a good few quid extra for a trakker logo on the side? Naughty that. Like Nige says, most of it adapted for anglers in one way or another. But sometimes it’s straight up the same product with a logo on. Or logo taken off. Can not justify that. A few £ try £30. My bulin cost me £15 from China (albeit it with a £5 off voucher) and is exactly the same bar the ignition has Trakker on it as my mates........ he payed £45 for his...... now that is carp tax. I like to remind him every session that when he brews up his tea tastes better than mine due to his superior and vastly more expensive stove. 🤔🤔😂😂😬 commonly and greekskii 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 6 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said: Don't be facetious; jewellery screwdrivers are tightened with fingertips not with hand pressure. My point has been, the countersink itself, the head on that is exactly the same from manufacturer to manufacturer. Come on, admit it, you work for Nash, this is taking the mickey out of anglers. When Rolson or Famag, Screwfix or whoever sell their hand countersinks, none are above £6.20. You by choosing manufacturer can get the handle size or shape you want. I can go into B&Q and buy one from a choice of manufacturers, and I am willing to bet that I could find one in the exact same shape as the Nash one. (Just to say, I have been in B&Q recently as I bought myself a new tile cutter, dowel and edging to renovate a bathroom and make a new bath panel, including countersinking the screw heads). Nash Bore Tool is more expensive than all of the countersink tools on sale there. Yep, you have a choice as you say. Now there is an option that you can choose, if you so wish, that allows you to buy from the same shop that you are in when purchasing the rest of your tackle. One that has been tweaked to suit the angler rather than the carpenter for various reasons like ergonomics in use, fitting in your tackle box, colour coded to tie in with the rest of your rig tools etc etc. Yet companies are taking the mickey out of anglers for offering this🤷♂️. People who will find use for items like the bore tool may buy one. Some people who might not have thought of using said tool may buy a similar item from a hardware store. Some people may have had one for years, like yourself, who might not have utilised it in their mounting of baits and now will. Some people may not see the need for one in their angling and not purchase one. And some people may have better things to do in their lives than carry on an argument over something so minuscule as a rig tool for the sake of trying to have the last word🤦♂️ snowmanstevo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commonly Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Opinions are like noses, we all have one and pick it. Every company (tackle) will sell to demand and bring each new or copied product to market in search of the next big thing. That's business and whilst we find certain points/products to make fun of, they are in it for the money and in turn hopefully keeping humans in employment. Tackle tarts keep the premium brands in business and most working poor class have to go budget range, not necessarily through choice. If money was no object I'm pretty sure most of us would buy the best product available. In my experience Trekker is the brand I avoid due to the few products I've brought being very poor quality and falling to bits on the first few outings.!! Not so with Nash/Korda & the like, I'm sure we all have their products and they serve a purpose in the carp fishing world! For example I like the Korda pulling tool, I would not use a coat hook from B&Q Donnygooner, nigewoodcock, elmoputney and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmoputney Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 I do think that Nash create products that aren't already in the market place and develop ideas that will improve someone's angling, not everything will but at least they try to bring fresh ideas, Greekskii I know people have been making untidy rigs and catching for years but for me a neat snowman would be a good thing, might make a 0.5% edge but add all those little extras up and it gives you confidence, I reckon I've got a countersink in the garage will try and make a nice snowman rig with it today, but without seeing this Nash tool I probably wouldn't have thought about it, so they have bought a product that may help someone's angling crusian, commonly, snowmanstevo and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmanstevo Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Just to play devils advocate......... if we all went with the cheaper,none angling based products as mentioned above with the said bore tool........ how long would our already dwindled tackle shops survive. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔 As I’ve already made clear I luv a bargain,but it has to be a bargain a tenner or twenty £ cheaper. I ain’t gunna split hairs over the price of half a pint of Guinness 🙄🙄 Its gone on for years not just with tackle but also as some will know with bait as well. There’s always somebody doing the ripping off and there’s always somebody being ripped off,by who and how much is entirely your decision 😉😬 commonly, nigewoodcock and Donnygooner 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 I think Nige's makes a good argument I certainly don't think he's showing bias (which I imagine must be quite difficult in a conversation such as this one!). snowmanstevo, commonly and Tree123 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted June 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 hour ago, nigewoodcock said: Yep, you have a choice as you say. Now there is an option that you can choose, if you so wish, that allows you to buy from the same shop that you are in when purchasing the rest of your tackle. One that has been tweaked to suit the angler rather than the carpenter for various reasons like ergonomics in use, fitting in your tackle box, colour coded to tie in with the rest of your rig tools etc etc. Yet companies are taking the mickey out of anglers for offering this🤷♂️. People who will find use for items like the bore tool may buy one. Some people who might not have thought of using said tool may buy a similar item from a hardware store. Some people may have had one for years, like yourself, who might not have utilised it in their mounting of baits and now will. Some people may not see the need for one in their angling and not purchase one. And some people may have better things to do in their lives than carry on an argument over something so minuscule as a rig tool for the sake of trying to have the last word🤦♂️ I've used wooden balls for baits, so I countersunk some, counterbored others to stop crayfish pulling boilie stops out. Thought 'hang on, that looks tidy, i'll do some real baits' so used the countersink for them. Colour coded? Would you like fishing colours? Yes I use my local tackle shops, yes I have worked in my local tackle shops, and there is always a rep coming in and trying to sell the latest 'must have'. Do you know how much stuff gets purchased and then ends up in the '90% off' bucket after being unsold for 5 years? commonly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 I was thinking about this product and it reminds of bait drills (the ones for boring out pop ups for foam). I started with drill bits many years ago, way before a tackle firm bought one out. When they did bring one out (Korda I think it was) I bought one and it did make life easier. Same deal imo. commonly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscsha Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 I must admit I find it a little far fetched to say its been adapted to suit the angler , made different maybe so that it looks nice and fits in the tackle box or economical packaging from China (to save money) I'm not knocking what Nash are doing as they are a business who's sole purpose is to make money , its just how it's trying to sold as unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmoputney Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Don't people mainly use wafters nowadays anyway for a balanced hookbait ? 🤔 oscsha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscsha Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, elmoputney said: Don't people mainly use wafters nowadays anyway for a balanced hookbait ? 🤔 Companies like Nash need to re-invent , we've had the chod,ronnie etc , they'll probably bring a range of end tackle out sold around using the snowman . Just remember there is little if anything new in fishing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmoputney Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Just used the countersink have to say it does look quite lovely, As John Wilson used to say "I would eat that if I was a carp" commonly, oscsha and Donnygooner 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscsha Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Quick market the Elmo countersink commonly and elmoputney 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlieg Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 4 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said: I've used wooden balls for baits, so I countersunk some, counterbored others to stop crayfish pulling boilie stops out. Thought 'hang on, that looks tidy, i'll do some real baits' so used the countersink for them. Colour coded? Would you like fishing colours? Yes I use my local tackle shops, yes I have worked in my local tackle shops, and there is always a rep coming in and trying to sell the latest 'must have'. Do you know how much stuff gets purchased and then ends up in the '90% off' bucket after being unsold for 5 years? Nick you managed to get your hands on the Korda Prototype? commonly and Donnygooner 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 I remember when the Korda Krusha came out and it didn't look any different from the $2 "bud buster" the 7-11convenience stores were selling back then. commonly and yonny 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted June 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 7 hours ago, charlieg said: Nick you managed to get your hands on the Korda Prototype? Like other things, I should have patented and registered the idea to stop tackle companies ripping anglers off😖😉😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscsha Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 If I ever come up with a good idea and patent it then you bet I'll want to earn out of it !! Tree123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree123 Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) We all know carp and brand tax exists. But but up to the Individual on what they to pay. Companies exist to make money and if they can brand it market it and sell it make money they will Edited June 12, 2019 by Tree123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted June 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 13 hours ago, Tree123 said: We all know carp and brand tax exists. But but up to the Individual on what they to pay. Companies exist to make money and if they can brand it market it and sell it make money they will I agree with you Mate, but at the same time, in fishing and life, companies are creating and marketing things we don't actually need. Plastic bottles of water spring to mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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