commonly Posted May 19, 2019 Report Share Posted May 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, Leonard said: I don't need to sharpen mine even after landing good sized carp! I agree, but I will check & if its not sticky sharp, it's literally seconds work. Essential in my mind, like I said I've never lost a proper bite since doind it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpepecheur Posted May 19, 2019 Report Share Posted May 19, 2019 2 hours ago, chillfactor said: This is the fish in question .... look at the Hoover on it ! Lol That is an immaculate fish Chillfactor and congratulations ... and it certainly had a large hoover. Until you brought up the subject I had never given much thought as to HOW a fish sucks up a bait. I vaguely imagined it sucked water into its lungs or whatever the carp equivalent of lungs is - the bigger the "lungs" the bigger the suck. As far as I have been able to find out, by reading various papers on the subject on the net, the suction is caused by something called buccal pressure (no, I’ve never heard of it either). The carp opens its mouth quickly causing an area of low pressure. everything in the vicinity of the mouth moves in to replace it so the bigger the mouth (as in your photo) the bigger the suck. But once the mouth is full again the suction stops. If you imagine a carp opening its mouth 1 foot above a bait, to get to the boilie it has to take in the whole water column in between. Even with a very large mouth it is hard to see how this would work at that distance. I have just looked at a lot of the underwater videos on YouTube of carp sucking bait. They tend to confirm the action described. They open their mouth and take in one mouthful of suck then have to repeat again. I did see one clip where a carp seemed to swim above a boilie then tilt towards, it suck it up and disappear in a swirl of silt. On stepping through it frame by frame however it was obvious that, at the point of taking, the bait the mouth was very close to the boilie. So I am wondering, Chillfactor , if this is the sort of thing you observed? I spent an hour in the workshop testing this today. I have a carp mouth sized pipe fitted with a plunger. A rapid pull on the plunger replicates the reduced buccal pressure as a carp sucks the bait. I tested a normal boilie, a wafter and pop up weighted so that it only just sank. On no occasion could I get the bait to move unless I was only centimetres away from it. I cannot convince myself that I am missing bites from a carp 1 foot away therefore I will continue to use my 6 cm (sic) hooklink. I have, however, learned a lot today. commonly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 21 hours ago, carpepecheur said: it is hard to imagine anyone not sharpening their hook each time. It must be the easiest ,cheapest and most effective thing you can do. I completely agree. I gave up debating the benefits of hook sharpening on forums some time ago. Anyone that needs convincing that a sharper hook is a more effective hooker needs their head tested imo. carpepecheur, buzzbomb, emmcee and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 20 hours ago, chillfactor said: That's just mint @chillfactor. I have watched fished sucking baits up from afar, along with twigs, chod, all manner of rubbish, they manage to filter it all somehow. I believe a lot of the rare'n's, those fish that hardly ever come out, simply feed differently and the feeding behaviour described above is just one example of that. There is huge variation in the mechanics of how individual fish feed. chillfactor, bluelabel, emmcee and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 Was a cracking fish .... sadly no longer with us, along with all the other fish in that lake. Otters !!!! 🤬 yonny and commonly 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelabel Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 I have been experimenting with light leads and short hooklengths... match fishing started me thinking about the rig mechanics of the Method feeder... and how only 20grms of feeder plus a few grams of pellets and a 4" link with a QM1 size 12 were leading to carp of mid doubles... henceforth I have been using less than an ounce and only 2/4" hooklinks... with good results on pressured club waters... another option I have tinkered with is using just lightly nipped shot above the knot loop for casting weight so that the bait is almost freelined (obviously stalking style, & not distance fishing) and ditching the hair rig, just using hooked prawns cockles and mussels where boilie fishing has turned the fish wary... Rig mechanics is always an emotive subject... If you find summat that works for you, good on you.... share it or keep to yerself.. your choice...!!! but we shouldn't decry what other folks use just because it doesn't suit your own needs or style of fishing👍😎 commonly, carpepecheur and oscsha 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelabel Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 Yeah... doubles... 20lb 1oz light lead, (2/3rds of an ounce short rig, snowman presentation... 2 x swanshot 4" hooklink, whole prawn bait (no hair rig).... yup.... another 20... (23lb 6oz) stop generalising.... and be a bit more open minded...!!! ..., Dave Hedgehog, commonly and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmanstevo Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, bluelabel said: Yeah... doubles... 20lb 1oz light lead, (2/3rds of an ounce short rig, snowman presentation... 2 x swanshot 4" hooklink, whole prawn bait (no hair rig).... yup.... another 20... (23lb 6oz) stop generalising.... and be a bit more open minded...!!! Nice fish,mate. 😎🎣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelabel Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 Cheers mate... 👍 snowmanstevo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscsha Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 Nice fish @bluelabel , hard to believe you caught them on short hook lengths and no stainless banksticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 Cracking fish & hopefully still in the land of the living 😎 How you caught them on short rigs & no stainless though..... two words spring to mind " Carp God " 😁 oscsha, snowmanstevo and bluelabel 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelabel Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 No stainless in sight... just 12 year old banksticks, alarms circa 1980, rods circa 1965, reels approx 1966... you've all seen my old gear... but just to make a point that its the last foot of ones endgame that does the damage and too many preconceptions about rig mechanics severely limits ones options... tight lines chaps snowmanstevo, Dave Hedgehog, ... and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscsha Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Leonard said: I tried short rigs on my venue and they didn't work, so I used longer ones and started catching. I must have imagined it all though and I'm very, very sorry for giving my opinion. I am also extremely sorry for liking my expensive stainless steel, I will throw it all away immediately and buy some tacky old powder coated rubbish like you use. Every time I bought that in the past it broke on me but I shall just keep buying it as I was wrong and you're right. I will send you both some money, and will never come onto the forum again and say what my opinion is about something. Once again I apologise, deeply, and will send you £100 each when I have saved up. Please allow me two weeks as I will need to arrange extra hours at work. Once again, I am extremely sorry. I was on this thread earlier having a lot of very in depth chats about my thoughts on rigs. I am sorry that I didn't mean what I mean and that you didn't like them. I must be going mad as you have clearly read into what I was really thinking, in a really clever way. HaHa , where have I said what bank sticks I use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted May 20, 2019 Report Share Posted May 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Leonard said: People need to be wary of the trend for short hooklinks As I explained earlier at length they only suit smaller fish over clean, flat clay.. Yes they are effective and you will convert lots of bites - (from doubles)... Really? I used a short 4inch rig to cast around 30 yards to an tree lined undercut corner margin. I wanted, even needed a short rig to avoid tangles, from going in the trees. It had only been in the water 5minutes. oscsha and Dave Hedgehog 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hedgehog Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Has he gone?... bluelabel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelabel Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Dave Hedgehog said: Has he gone?... Oh I do hope so....!!! I can take all kinds of folk and I get on well with most... but folks who won't acknowledge other opinions and getting abusive with it, rub me up the wrong way... oscsha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelabel Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 I have no problem with longer rigs.... I just experimented with shorter ones for a while and they paid dividends (and I shall continue to use them till I try summat else) and for "Leonard" to dismiss them as "for doubles only" is a bit narrow minded to say the least, especially as I've had good results on them... and to slag off anodised (not powder coated, learn the difference) ally as rubbish, is petty in the extreme... all folks have differing ideas and the overriding thing I have learned is live and let live... shame some other folks can't abide by that rule oscsha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelabel Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 anyway.... back to the subject in question.... with short rigs.... would a short chod work with a leadclip better then on a leader or naked...???? summat I may try in the future, but if it's prone to getting caught up I may give it a miss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, bluelabel said: would a short chod work with a leadclip better then on a leader or naked...???? Not in my opinion buddy. The chod by it's nature is a compromise as it offers no vertical movement i.e you need the fish to really, really nail it in order to get a decent hook hold. That compromise is worth it if you're fishing a spot that couldn't be fished otherwise (over weed or the heaviest chod), but not if you're fishing a spot that is clean enough to fish a very short rig on a lead clip. Imo a bottom bait or wafter rig would be miles better for a cleaner deck or at the very least a boomed pop up rig (ronnie, hsr etc). commonly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelabel Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Cheers Yonny... I figured that using a chod on a leader there isn't a great deal of movement anyway even on a VERY slack line and indication (never at it's best with a chod anyway) is going to be a bit hit or miss, My reasoning being that if you fished a chod off a lead clip with only enough weight to prick the fish... (say 2/3rd to 1 oz of lead) then it may convert a finicky pick up into a single toner....? yonny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 I don't think there is such a thing as a finicky pick up on a chod tbh. They either nail it or they don't imo. Carp feed by sucking/blowing with various degrees of intensity. If intensity is low we don't stand a chance with a chod, zero movement, no potential for hooking. Whack the chod on a boom and bingo, you have the HSR, which is a great rig in a low intensity feeding situation. I only ever fish chods over weed or really, really heavy chod and even then I'll fish it on a tiny 2-3 inch boom. This makes it 10 times more effective imo. commonly and emmcee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 Just now, yonny said: They either nail it or they don't imo. This is why, when you do get a pick up on the chod, they tend to be absolutely nailed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelabel Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 even better (and hopefully less prone to tangling) would be a light inline lead of an ounce or less if they are available... possibly set up running with a light stopper bead above the lead set almost shokka style....???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelabel Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 minute ago, yonny said: This is why, when you do get a pick up on the chod, they tend to be absolutely nailed! maybe it's my setup (naked) but I never get a proper ripper on the chod rig... it's always a stuttery pick up and often a drop back and don't always connect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted May 21, 2019 Report Share Posted May 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, bluelabel said: maybe it's my setup (naked) but I never get a proper ripper on the chod rig... it's always a stuttery pick up and often a drop back and don't always connect Are you fishing it over a clean bottom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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