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Should fishery owners be responsible for checking licences????


smufter
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On 1/13/2018 at 12:13, greekskii said:

The agency can still check you on syndi waters though @yonny  

Yeah I'm aware buddy. Last year we were given the heads up they'd be checking (not a problem, I always license all my rods). They never showed up.

On 1/13/2018 at 12:30, spr1985 said:

I believe Yonny already knows that, the question he is asking is why should he have to......and I agree! 

Pretty much mate. I've spent thousands over the last few years on tickets for waters that will likely never see any benefit from license funds. We fence them ourselves. We take all sorts of precautions to avoid disease. Water health/quality is monitored. Tbh we wouldn't trust the EA to deal with any issues effectively (i.e. fast enough) should they arise.

Don't get me wrong, if I fish waters that benefit I have no issues with paying for licenses. In fact they're a bargain. But when I don't see any benefit I can't help but feel shafted. It's like paying car tax when you don't drive on public roads.

On 1/13/2018 at 14:05, spr1985 said:

I have been fishing for at least 23 years and I have never had my licence checked.

I've been checked once. It was 1st April several years ago now and it was the only time I've ever been fishing without a license..... I'd just completely forgotten to renew. I called the hotline and got my licenses right there on the bank. Luckily they checked my track record, saw I'd always had my licenses, and let me off. Lesson learned though eh... idiot!!!

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  • 4 years later...
On 11/01/2018 at 06:59, smufter said:

Wouldn't take two seconds just to ask for anybody fishing their lake to produce one.

If a youngster manages to buy cigarettes or booze, the shop will get done for supplying.

So why not a fishery owner allowing somebody to fish their waters without one????

A big ask, some fisheries are enormous, and many use honesty boxes for payment.

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if the EA would like lake owners to ask for a licence then the EA need to give them something worthwhile back, free stock fish or payment, otherwise it would have to be a legal requirement to stop anglers getting shirty when turned away. 

personally i think rod licences are overpriced and outdated, everyone who wishes to use the waters for any reason other than walking should pay something, 10 notes per year per rod would be fair same for canoeists, bike riders, magnet fishing, wild swimming, all sorts. a small EA fee for each would be fair.

if fishery owners was getting something back for checking i would mind.

 

wouldn't mind lol 

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20 minutes ago, Carpbell_ll said:

if the EA would like lake owners to ask for a licence then the EA need to give them something worthwhile back, free stock fish or payment, otherwise it would have to be a legal requirement to stop anglers getting shirty when turned away. 

personally i think rod licences are overpriced and outdated, everyone who wishes to use the waters for any reason other than walking should pay something, 10 notes per year per rod would be fair same for canoeists, bike riders, magnet fishing, wild swimming, all sorts. a small EA fee for each would be fair.

if fishery owners was getting something back for checking i would mind.

 

wouldn't mind lol 

It is actually legal for any business to refuse service if they believe that there is valid reason.

So a shop, restaurant or pub may refuse service to a rude customer.

A fishery is exactly the same, they can refuse to let an angler fish if they believe that he or she does not have a licence. 

1 hour ago, Kane said:

A big ask, some fisheries are enormous, and many use honesty boxes for payment.

That in the current climate is stupidity. Our friends who decide to take fish for dinner.

 

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13 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

A fishery is exactly the same, they can refuse to let an angler fish if they believe that he or she does not have a licence. 

From a commercial perspective this is all the more reason not to ask to see licenses! No one wants to turn customers away innit.

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15 hours ago, Carpbell_ll said:

personally i think rod licences are overpriced and outdated, everyone who wishes to use the waters for any reason other than walking should pay something, 10 notes per year per rod would be fair same for canoeists, bike riders, magnet fishing, wild swimming, all sorts. a small EA fee for each would be fair.

couldn't agree any less. It's £45 a year for 3 rods, people spend more on food and bait for a weekend. What the money gets spent on has massive value to the environment and to fisheries too. Rod licence monies only go to the Fisheries team, they dont go anywhere else so every penny of income gets spent on improvements, it doesnt pay anyone wages. I do agree however that all river users should have to pay something. 

In an ideal world all fisheries and clubs would check your licence before selling you a ticket, but a centralised infrastructure would be so complex and expensive.

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1 hour ago, yonny said:

From a commercial perspective this is all the more reason not to ask to see licenses! No one wants to turn customers away innit.

@yonny, yes and no.

I work in the hospitality industry, we don't want to turn customers away, but I am not having any of my staff harassed, abused because of a rude (often drunk) customer. We have to turn the customer away, refuse service, yet it means we have lost money. 

 

@greekskii was actually replying at the same time as me, and I agree all fisheries should check your licence, especially day ticket commercial waters.

Any business that sells a service I would think is registered or licensed. It would be quite possible to register day ticket fisheries.

In the fishery doing the licence checking, it would save bailiffs needing to visit the fishery.

 

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Our club insists that you take your EA licence with your club book and when I do baliff checks I have to log that they have them with them. I’ve seen 2 EA Baliff’s in just under 50years angling 

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2 minutes ago, snowmanstevo said:

Our club insists that you take your EA licence with your club book and when I do baliff checks I have to log that they have them with them. I’ve seen 2 EA Baliff’s in just under 50years angling 

I have bought my license and have an email proving that. If I am fishing without my phone (it's a chance to get away from modern life) and have not recieved a physical license (you are not legally required to carry it when fishing) how would I prove to you I have a license. That's a bit unfair.

A fishing license is like a driving license. I don't have to show you my driving license to buy a car or if you stop me on the road. Even if I was parking in a car park that you own, you wouldn't be entitled to see my driving license, so why are you entitled to see my fishing license?

Whilst I have a fishing license, if anyone other than the EA or a person in authority (police or similar) asked me for it, I would respectfully refuse to show it. Your license does not entitle you to act on the EAs behalf. There are too many people who think they are entitled to check on things that are beyond their remit.

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Rules are rules when it comes to fisheries. You accept them or you don't fish imo.

26 minutes ago, InteraX said:

I have bought my license and have an email proving that. If I am fishing without my phone (it's a chance to get away from modern life) and have not recieved a physical license (you are not legally required to carry it when fishing) how would I prove to you I have a license. That's a bit unfair.

If you have no paper license you'd make sure to take your phone if the rules are you need to show the license surely? Just turn it off if you don't want calls.

29 minutes ago, InteraX said:

Whilst I have a fishing license, if anyone other than the EA or a person in authority (police or similar) asked me for it, I would respectfully refuse to show it. Your license does not entitle you to act on the EAs behalf. There are too many people who think they are entitled to check on things that are beyond their remit.

This makes no sense to me at all mate. If the fishery requires you have a license why not just show it to them? Awkward sod 🤣

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I think I've been checked for a licence by a proper bailiff once in my life and that was on Bluebell 10+ years ago.

I'd have liked and expected to have been checked far far more times during that time!

Maybe fisheries should check it might be a way of identifying those who are likely to break other fishery rules down the line?

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19 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

It is actually legal for any business to refuse service if they believe that there is valid reason.

So a shop, restaurant or pub may refuse service to a rude customer.

A fishery is exactly the same, they can refuse to let an angler fish if they believe that he or she does not have a licence. 

That in the current climate is stupidity. Our friends who decide to take fish for dinner.

 

that's more a judgment call at the moment, if the lake owner had to check by law at least once per angler before selling a ticket the customer couldn't moan about a bad call. 

surprised more lake aren't doing what bishops bowl do, you need a membership to buy a ticket that way they have all details on record they could also ask for a licence before giving membership. as could all lakes, it's a bit too busy these days to just have a lake anyone can rock up too for a few days and do as they please. 

4 hours ago, greekskii said:

couldn't agree any less. It's £45 a year for 3 rods, people spend more on food and bait for a weekend. What the money gets spent on has massive value to the environment and to fisheries too. Rod licence monies only go to the Fisheries team, they dont go anywhere else so every penny of income gets spent on improvements, it doesnt pay anyone wages. I do agree however that all river users should have to pay something. 

In an ideal world all fisheries and clubs would check your licence before selling you a ticket, but a centralised infrastructure would be so complex and expensive.

for some it is an off putting price, i bet most anglers they catch are the real casual out once a year or so, they do check match style waters regular barston and the surrounding lakes will see them during the summer.  it is more of a tradition for anglers to have a licence if it wasn't accepted by most i wouldn't bother, i guarantee i could use the human rights laws to prevent the case being heard in court, not that i would as it's a accepted tradition among anglers. 

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1 hour ago, Carpbell_ll said:

for some it is an off putting price, i bet most anglers they catch are the real casual out once a year or so, they do check match style waters regular barston and the surrounding lakes will see them during the summer.  it is more of a tradition for anglers to have a licence if it wasn't accepted by most i wouldn't bother, i guarantee i could use the human rights laws to prevent the case being heard in court, not that i would as it's a accepted tradition among anglers. 

As I said, some people spend the same on bait for a weekend session and £45 isnt off putting then is it? £45 for three rods is only £15 a rod. You yourself said £10 a rod, so what's £5 extra considering its going towards improvements for angling? 5kg of boilies is about £45 from most brands. People think nothing of spending that every month or even more regularly, but an annual rod license is somehow too expensive? 

Enforcement officers are paid out the general pot, i know locally we have 1.5 FT to cover the catchment which equates to hardly anyone really. As said they'll target the likely haunts where they will catch people out, but still you get the chance to buy a license on the bank to save yourself a court date. Which btw, you would struggle to win on the basis you think its over priced. Personally I think some of the rod license monies could be diverted for extra staffing and some more hard line consequences of not having a rod license, take france or belgium for example where they'll confiscate your kit and dish out 1000+ euro fines. 

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3 hours ago, InteraX said:

I have bought my license and have an email proving that. If I am fishing without my phone (it's a chance to get away from modern life) and have not recieved a physical license (you are not legally required to carry it when fishing) how would I prove to you I have a license. That's a bit unfair.

A fishing license is like a driving license. I don't have to show you my driving license to buy a car or if you stop me on the road. Even if I was parking in a car park that you own, you wouldn't be entitled to see my driving license, so why are you entitled to see my fishing license?

Whilst I have a fishing license, if anyone other than the EA or a person in authority (police or similar) asked me for it, I would respectfully refuse to show it. Your license does not entitle you to act on the EAs behalf. There are too many people who think they are entitled to check on things that are beyond their remit.

Why are you not legally required to carry your rod license 🤔🤔🤔

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5 minutes ago, snowmanstevo said:

Why are you not legally required to carry your rod license 🤔🤔🤔

Why should I be in this day and age. Having a physical token to show that I've paid some money is rather old fashioned. When did you last hear of the police asking for a 'producer'? It's all online. As much as we try to fight it, the movement forward is to have everything online. I bet in the next year or 2 the EA will do away with a physical license because it costs extra money that they could put into staffing/development.

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9 minutes ago, snowmanstevo said:

Why are you not legally required to carry your rod license 🤔🤔🤔

because they access the national database from their phone/pad so they only need your name and address to check you have one. This does mean you need to carry a form of photo ID though

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Just now, greekskii said:

because they access the national database from their phone/pad so they only need your name and address to check you have one. This does mean you need to carry a form of photo ID though

I disagree. What about people without passports/driving licenses. You shouldn't have to have a passport with you to go fishing. No one under 16 has a driving license. what do you do then. As I said earlier, if a person in authority (EA bailiff with ID, police or similar) asks, you can provide them the required information. If you stumble, then they can ask more probing questions.

Just remember back to when you were 16 or 17 and trying to buy a bottle of Cider for you and your mates on a Saturday night or trying to get into a club with fake ID.....:grin:

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13 minutes ago, InteraX said:

Having a physical token to show that I've paid some money is rather old fashioned. When did you last hear of the police asking for a 'producer'? It's all online. As much as we try to fight it, the movement forward is to have everything online. I bet in the next year or 2 the EA will do away with a physical license because it costs extra money that they could put into staffing/development.

They already give the option of a paper license or soft copy. You no longer need to have the paper license, as long as you have your phone on you.

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20 minutes ago, InteraX said:

I disagree. What about people without passports/driving licenses. You shouldn't have to have a passport with you to go fishing. No one under 16 has a driving license. what do you do then. As I said earlier, if a person in authority (EA bailiff with ID, police or similar) asks, you can provide them the required information. If you stumble, then they can ask more probing questions.

Just remember back to when you were 16 or 17 and trying to buy a bottle of Cider for you and your mates on a Saturday night or trying to get into a club with fake ID.....:grin:

Yes but it's on you to provide the information. If you choose not to take your hard or soft copy for whatever reason they can search your name but you need to prove it's actually you to avoid a fine. SO you'd need some form of ID to match it up with, just like pretty much everything else in the country. Onus is on the holder to prove they have one, not the EA to prove they havent. I suspect your club book, showing them your facebook profile or anything to prove it's you will do though tbh. I'm saying photo ID because that is the usual thing you provide to prove identity isnt it. There are other forms of photo ID that arent driving license or passport that are legally accepted by government, bus passes, citizen cards, etc. 

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1 hour ago, yonny said:

They already give the option of a paper license or soft copy. You no longer need to have the paper license, as long as you have your phone on you.

I didn’t bother with a paper copy this year 

just hope I don’t forget where in the emails I put it lol

 

i can’t understand why they just don’t issue a plastic one like a driving license with a photo on it and you just pay via bank card and always keep the same license number 

Edited by framey
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The rod licence is for the fishing rod and the game or coarse fish you're allowed to catch. A permit or day ticket gives you the right to fish in a particular fishery. 

You must have a fishing licence for England and Wales if you’re fishing for salmon, trout, freshwater fish, smelt or eel with a rod and line.

When you purchase your club/syndicate ticket, you are then given permission by the owner to fish, also giving advance of when you are fishing also.

Also following your local bylaws in your region.

 

Mine runs out 20th May, always carry actual licence and phone for other personal reasons and will be a back up.

Edited by Highy
..
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14 hours ago, framey said:

I didn’t bother with a paper copy this year 

Only reason I ordered the paper copy is the David Miller artwork on it lol! I still have the full set since he started doing the art and plan to frame the lot when they stop doing paper licenses. I reckon a full set will be worth money one day.

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21 hours ago, Highy said:

The rod licence is for the fishing rod and the game or coarse fish you're allowed to catch. A permit or day ticket gives you the right to fish in a particular fishery. 

You must have a fishing licence for England and Wales if you’re fishing for salmon, trout, freshwater fish, smelt or eel with a rod and line.

When you purchase your club/syndicate ticket, you are then given permission by the owner to fish, also giving advance of when you are fishing also.

Also following your local bylaws in your region.

 

Mine runs out 20th May, always carry actual licence and phone for other personal reasons and will be a back up.

Up the 0.05gram weight save lol

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14 hours ago, yonny said:

Only reason I ordered the paper copy is the David Miller artwork on it lol! I still have the full set since he started doing the art and plan to frame the lot when they stop doing paper licenses. I reckon a full set will be worth money one day.

Mine came through last week, I do love his artwork. He has appeared on BBC Countryfile (as has my syndicate😉)

Mine are all saved in my wallet, but i'm looking to get them framed, along with a few other pics I've taken.

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Just as a option for younger proper skint anglers, if they are under 18 you could tell the courts you can't be expected to pay any fee as they have been disenfranchised from what the gov says a person needs to live on each week, better hope the maj is as left wing as me though 😀

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