D rig and trig hammers

[bluelabel]

so are hooks over size 10... your point...?

[Guest StinkyMink]

3 hours ago, bluelabel said:

so are hooks over size 10... your point...?

You mean under size 10

And I already made my point about why I don't like big hooks..

 

This is all relative anyway

I like medium size hooks but the sixes I use (about three or four different ones) all vary a little in size

perhaps I should be more diplomatic:

What I don't like about big hooks of size 4 and above is the thick, heavy wire that accompanies them

It is old fashioned knowledge that thinner wire will be naturally sharper

All the size 6 I use have relatively fine wire gauge (and they are more than strong enough for big carp snag fishing)

I am very anal about hooks and spent ages (and great expense) looking at many different brands. I even weighed them in groups of 10 on some micro scales!

It's good to be fussy about what you use. I wasn't just obsessed with the wire gauges, I wanted the right shapes (specifically the bend area and a medium shank, not a very long or short shank) - it depends on the rig you tie (and I only tie one rig, so it pays to get things right!

 

[snowmanstevo]

When a fish knows the difference between a 6 and a 4 then I’m off to the golf coarse. 😂😂😬

Stinkymink are you Carpmachine in disguise 🤔🤔😂😂😂 

[bluelabel]

whereas I'll freeline a whole prawn on a size 2 or 4, it's about matching your bait to your hooksize... a size 6 in a whole king prawn is lost.... especially as it's not hair rigged

[snowmanstevo]

Just now, StinkyMink said:

They won't, but the hookpoint certainly will

Good answer but after a tickle with the file the difference will be minimal. 

[Guest StinkyMink]

2 hours ago, bluelabel said:

whereas I'll freeline a whole prawn on a size 2 or 4, it's about matching your bait to your hooksize... a size 6 in a whole king prawn is lost.... especially as it's not hair rigged

Yeah sure

(Wow we agreed on something)!!!   

Within reason a hair rig can be used with virtually any size bait (IMO)! -

while my hook remains the same medium size, I use anything from 10 to 22mm boilies.. I make an adjustment which won't take a rocket scientist to work out

 

2 hours ago, snowmanstevo said:

Good answer but after a tickle with the file the difference will be minimal. 

Yes and no mate

There's a bit more to it than that..

[snowmanstevo]

Just now, StinkyMink said:

Yes and no mate

There's a bit more to it than that..

Would you care to explain,this is after all a friendly,learning forum. 

[Guest StinkyMink]

Just now, snowmanstevo said:

Would you care to explain,this is after all a friendly,learning forum. 

Mosquitoes mate

The lance (bitey thing) is called a proboscis

A tiny animal with virtually no physical power (compared to us, and our skin toughness) can pierce our skin relatively easily, because the minimal power being applied is via an extremely thin instrument

It doesn't matter how sharp the point is, they wouldn't be able to push a thicker proboscis in deeply enough

[snowmanstevo]

1 minute ago, StinkyMink said:

Mosquitoes mate

The lance (bitey thing) is called a proboscis

A tiny animal with virtually no physical power (compared to us, and our skin toughness) can pierce our skin relatively easily, because the minimal power being applied is via an extremely thin instrument

It doesn't matter how sharp the point is, they wouldn't be able to push a thicker proboscis in deeply enough

Again a very good answer,but you could also debate that when something is thinner(streamlined) then in turn it could  be easier to eject. 

[bluelabel]

hence the point of a lead clip and heavier lead... a sharp hook just needs to prick the fish to cause it to bolt off... the heavier lead will pull the hookpoint in further despite the point diameter... especially a long tapered point...

[Guest StinkyMink]

22 minutes ago, bluelabel said:

hence the point of a lead clip and heavier lead... a sharp hook just needs to prick the fish to cause it to bolt off... the heavier lead will pull the hookpoint in further despite the point diameter... especially a long tapered point...

That's what we all hope mate, and no matter how brilliant a rig technician you are you need luck for the hookpoint to find hold

 

24 minutes ago, snowmanstevo said:

Again a very good answer,but you could also debate that when something is thinner(streamlined) then in turn it could  be easier to eject. 

I haven't used a straight point hook for a long time mate. Maybe I miss takes because of this though.

No rig or rig thinking will ever be completely accurate because so much is down to the fish and so many randomn factors - that is why it is important to stick to rigs you are confident in and develop your own way of doing things

[elmoputney]

41 minutes ago, StinkyMink said:

That's what we all hope mate, and no matter how brilliant a rig technician you are you need luck for the hookpoint to find hold

 

I haven't used a straight point hook for a long time mate. Maybe I miss takes because of this though.

No rig or rig thinking will ever be completely accurate because so much is down to the fish and so many randomn factors - that is why it is important to stick to rigs you are confident in and develop your own way of doing things

I don't like a beak point I can't see anyway they would be more effective tbh, just think the bend in the point makes it harder to prick it into the fishes mouth, but that's only my opinion 

[salokcinnodrog]

4 hours ago, StinkyMink said:

I did, within the post

I said simple KD rig as Yonny described

 

My reccomendation is this mate

If you like curve shanks, stick with them

Take a medium size 6 or 7 (they tend to be big, and in my opinion typical size 4 curves are far too big and clumsy, like shark hooks)

The trouble with big hooks is that they are obvious, and the carp will feel the edge of it (or see it easily) and avoid it

Anyway take your size 6 curve shank and tie it up with a slightly semi stiff, strong braid (Dark Matter 20lb - perfect)

Tie it about 5 turns down, and 3 turns under the hair (I don't like super agressive KD) - that will be more than aggressive enough, I used to use this rig a lot) - it is best fished long, as in rig length and also long hair

 

 

I rarely use anything less than a size 4. A carp does not know what a hook is, well not until it is removed. It is the fact that in the cases of most pop-up rigs they can't see it.

 

The sharpness of a different size of hook does not change on the thickness of the hook. In many cases the size 4 of a pattern of hook is on the same gauge wire as a 6 or even 8.

In fact I can think of a number of size 2's and 4's that are on a thinner gauge wire than a size 8.

Yes you can improve or even sharpen a hook, I don't it, it comes out the pack, the point gets checked, the hook gets tied on.

I want a big hook, more gape to grab hold, and a straight point is far better at grabbing hold than a beaked hook. To me a beaked hook is only good over gravel that will turn a straight point over.

 

The D-rig is not a fashion icon, it was developed for a particular reason; To counter rig shy carp at Savay, to give additional movement that wasn't happening with a standard hair. Rod Hutchinson developed his sliding hair while Roger Smith came up with the D.

It also happens to be very effective with pop-ups and snowman baits.

[Pete Springate's Guns]

3 hours ago, StinkyMink said:

 

PS Size 2 are banned on a lot of venues for a good reason

Really? I’ve been fishing for 50 years this year on many, many club and syndicate waters all over the country and have never come across that rule!

[elmoputney]

Beer and rig science this afternoon anything to block out the noise 😬

Different supple hooklinks same wafters, proper job dumbell with AAA shot not holding bottom(these are not even the super buoyant specials) and a retro cork wafter, I think the old sticky wafters aren't up to much weight it seems a 25lb supple braid doesn't get it up everytime , I am starting to think a 15lb or 20lb braid may be better for presentation, but I need a reliable wafter and the retro ones seem to sit right everytime the sticky ones don't always do what you expect, has anyone got any good wafter recommendations? 

But one thing the KD rig seems to present well though I've thrown them in and the way the hair sits seems to keep it from tangling, which is good enough for me at the moment, 👍

[hutch]

Disrupting the conversation flow a little but this is one of my extended D rigs with a size 6 Trig Hammer

 

[B B]

7 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Beer and rig science this afternoon anything to block out the noise 😬

Different supple hooklinks same wafters, proper job dumbell with AAA shot not holding bottom(these are not even the super buoyant specials) and a retro cork wafter, I think the old sticky wafters aren't up to much weight it seems a 25lb supple braid doesn't get it up everytime , I am starting to think a 15lb or 20lb braid may be better for presentation, but I need a reliable wafter and the retro ones seem to sit right everytime the sticky ones don't always do what you expect, has anyone got any good wafter recommendations? 

But one thing the KD rig seems to present well though I've thrown them in and the way the hair sits seems to keep it from tangling, which is good enough for me at the moment, 👍

I am a big fan of the KD rig but I fish it with a snowman setup so the hook is flat on the bottom, A long hair and with half of a inch striped back of the coated braid with a B.B. pinched on the break. The rig looks... well weird but works for me.  

[salokcinnodrog]

I must have been bored, I sat and D'd some hooks this week for D-rigs, so I have plenty ready for tying.

Standard rig ring on 15lb mono. The hard part is whipping the second end of the mono down as you are going inside the loop. You also have to be careful with the glue not to splurge over the eye.

 

 

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I must have been bored, I sat and D'd some hooks this week for D-rigs, so I have plenty ready for tying.

Standard rig ring on 15lb mono. The hard part is whipping the second end of the mono down as you are going inside the loop. You also have to be careful with the glue not to splurge over the eye.

 

 

Could probably make a good variation on the Ronnie/spinner rig maybe ? 

 

[framey]

I learnt to tie flies years ago 

I can tie them to the shank lol like the old fox hooks

[yonny]

On 02/05/2020 at 16:51, elmoputney said:

Elvis Juice and a big fat vape mod. Looks like my house!

[elmoputney]

46 minutes ago, yonny said:

Elvis Juice and a big fat vape mod. Looks like my house!

I do love an elvis juice 😍

I had already had this one before, had been a tough day 😁 

It's a geekvape aegis 2 I got it cos it is meant to be bulletproof so far it is still elmoproof 🙄

[elmoputney]

25 minutes ago, Enzyme said:

I wouldn't say ''far'' better.. That depends on the design, some BP are too inturned, yes - but the shape of the rest of the hook should be made to counter that (very slight) effect.

I other words I never found it made much difference and in fact a lot of the beaked points about are only slightly curved.. it's negligible a lot of the time, a lot depends on luck in how the fish takes the bait, beaked or straight you need luck and for the fish to act in a certain way versus your own thinking behind the rig and how you designed it in terms of the lead setup style you use, how it landed, how other fish moved it, what size bait/type, bouyancy - will all effect how the rig acts anyway -

within certain sensible parameters the hook style and type probably doesn't matter as much as we think it does

 

Isn't fishing about 1% extras and confidence though,I would find it  hard to be confident in a hook that I don't think will prick the hooks mouth as much? Which Is why I always use a straight point shark hook 🦈

[yonny]

11 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

I always use a straight point shark hook 🦈

Size 2 and 4 shark hooks for me too 🎣

[emmcee]

3 minutes ago, Enzyme said:

Its not an opinion

Good luck with using whatever your dominant husband Fairbrass tells you is trendy right now

Thanks for the advice. Luckily for me I've just taken delivery of some korda helisafes and boom material. Spinner rigs will be tied with korda kranks, no carp will be safe once lockdown is over .Their stuff has never failed me in 30 yrs of fishing so if it ain't broke , don't fix it.