Bait for different species

[commonly]

I have begun to wonder wether certain baits/flavours are preferred by say a common to a mirror?

 

I only ask as I love to catch commons & seem to of only landed mirrors of late. 

Both waters I fish have decent sized commons, but they are eluding me. Any suggestions welcome. 

[TnCarper]

4 minutes ago, commonly said:

I have begun to wonder wether certain baits/flavours are preferred by say a common to a mirror?

 

I only ask as I love to catch commons & seem to of only landed mirrors of late. 

Both waters I fish have decent sized commons, but they are eluding me. Any suggestions welcome. 

I can't really help that much since I'm not in the UK, but I think it would be a good idea to list what you're mainly been using as of late.

[yonny]

Common and mirrors are not different species buddy.

I've heard all sorts of tricks that are said to be good for commons (certain baits etc.) but in reality I've never found anything to be effective at singling them out.

[TnCarper]

12 minutes ago, yonny said:

Common and mirrors are not different species buddy.

I've heard all sorts of tricks that are said to be good for commons (certain baits etc.) but in reality I've never found anything to be effective at singling them out.

That's what I was thinking. Really, I think he's just been where a lot of mirrors are around.

[snowmanstevo]

32 minutes ago, commonly said:

I have begun to wonder wether certain baits/flavours are preferred by say a common to a mirror?

 

I only ask as I love to catch commons & seem to of only landed mirrors of late. 

Both waters I fish have decent sized commons, but they are eluding me. Any suggestions welcome. 

Julian Cundiff catch’s 100,s of commons compared to mirrors. Obviously some of the waters he fishes must be dominated by commons but I read this wk he’s been fishing park lakes with mixed carp in and still hauling in the commons. He’s on scopex squid I think so maybe that has something to do with it 🤔🤔🤔 who knows. Not bait related but I have found Our commons in our local water wake up from there winter slumber a few wks before the mirrors do. In summer 4 out of every 5 fish landed are mirrors. From January to March 2 out of every 3 are commons 🤔🤔😆😆😬

[harpz_31]

mirror carp were bred from common carp for ease of descaling for the table so the only difference from commons and mirrors should be scales

how would a mirror carp know its a mirror carp ?

[harpz_31]

but mirror carp tend to be larger than commons so there must be a difference in feeding habits or metabolic rates or food preference

[yonny]

45 minutes ago, harpz_31 said:

but mirror carp tend to be larger than commons so there must be a difference in feeding habits or metabolic rates or food preference

It takes more energy (for lack of a better word) to grow scales than it does the softer flesh therefore commons and heavily scaled mirrors tend to grow much more slowly than sparsely scaled fish, and why mirrors tend to be bigger in general. No difference in metabolic rate etc.

I can catch big mirrors for fun but really struggle with commons. Conversely I have a mate that always gets on the big commons but struggles to bag the mirrors. We fish the same waters. It's purely down to chance imo.

[harpz_31]

1 hour ago, yonny said:

It's purely down to chance imo

yea id agree

my pb for both common and mirror is exactly the same

and the water im fishing atm 3 out of 4 of the biggest fish are commons yet mirrors out number them 3 to 1

[Ginger9991]

I think it would be mad to think that different fish (common to common, common to mirror) didnt have different preferences in food. I also think it would also be mad to think that this might be the reason your not catching your targets then not acting on it.

Are the fish publicised at all? Get posted on FB etc? people often post what they caught them on now...maybe in hope of a bait deal! but yeah do a bit of research if you can, See if you can find a pattern, Maybe fish 2 different baits, A nutty bait and a fishmeal maybe, Record what your catching, see if there are any patterns in what your catching.

Theres also an argument to say that certain fish patrol certain areas....Again hit social media see if you can build up a pattern. Its all learning, And it will differ from lake to lake.

[yonny]

8 minutes ago, Ginger9991 said:

people often post what they caught them on now...maybe in hope of a bait deal!

You have to be careful what you believe for that very reason lol.

[chillfactor]

I had an interesting catch last year,  that nice common I had which was thought to of been lost to the otters , some will remember on here . Not been caught or seen  in over two years before I landed it last year . Anyway to my point lol .... I'm convinced I caught it again because I started baiting a few weeks before with a bait I hadn't used for the couple of years it went uncaught .  

[yonny]

56 minutes ago, chillfactor said:

Anyway to my point lol .... I'm convinced I caught it again because I started baiting a few weeks before with a bait I hadn't used for the couple of years it went uncaught . 

See that makes sense to me. I don't believe for a second that mirrors/commons prefer particular baits but I have no doubt that individual fish show preference for a particular bait or baits.

[commonly]

5 hours ago, Ginger9991 said:

Are the fish publicised at all? Get posted on FB etc? people often post what they caught them on now...maybe in hope of a bait deal! but yeah do a bit of research if you can, See if you can find a pattern, Maybe fish 2 different baits, A nutty bait and a fishmeal maybe, Record what your catching, see if there are any patterns in what your catching.

Theres also an argument to say that certain fish patrol certain areas....Again hit social media see if you can build up a pattern. Its all learning, And it will differ from lake to lake.

One of my waters has well known fish, mostly commons! The lads that go 2/3 times a week have only caught a few! So that leaves it to luck for me doing the odd night here & there. I know one or two of the baits going in.The 1st few years, I went my own way, this year I'm using the better known bait, had a small stocky linear, which was OK. I want the Redmire commons though & if the wealth of angling knowledge available here can offer me an edge, I'm all ears. 

 

[spr1985]

Someone on here pointed me in the direction of barley malt extract....and then was far from surprised when I told him I’d caught my pb (at the time)  on it.  A beautiful common of 27lb 8oz if memory serves me correctly(the fish below)  read into that what you will.......

 

someone mentioned julian cundif using scopex squid....I also use it and had my new pb on it 29lb common 

Edited September 5, 2018 by spr1985

[chillfactor]

6 hours ago, yonny said:

See that makes sense to me. I don't believe for a second that mirrors/commons prefer particular baits but I have no doubt that individual fish show preference for a particular bait or baits.

I'm in no doubt that the fish must of fed on bait during those two years , but maybe different fish respond differently to the feeding triggers of each individual bait & thus making them easier to trip up if the right trigger is present? 

[salokcinnodrog]

2 hours ago, chillfactor said:

I'm in no doubt that the fish must of fed on bait during those two years , but maybe different fish respond differently to the feeding triggers of each individual bait & thus making them easier to trip up if the right trigger is present? 

I'm not sure about how a bait can be specific for a particular strain.

Leather, mirror and common, even koi are all part of the same species, cyprinus carpio, although I think that linears and leather carry a potentially lethal gene. (Maybe Frank (Levigsp), can explain it better).

 

I do know though that in my experience, common carp on some waters can sometimes show a distinct preference for particles, where mirrors may be more boilie orientated. I used Trigga on Earith for a couple of years, that bait caught both mirrors and commons in I reckon equal proportions. 

Years ago there was an ongoing discussion about honey being an attractor for leathers, not sure if Chillfactor remembers or was part of it?

 

There has to be some sight feeding, smaller fish could well be more sight feeders, having to eat everything they see, compared to bigger fish being more nutritionally able to 'smell' baits?

Saying all that, the original big mirror (which I haven't  seen recently) in my local park lake had a distinct skill in boilie hookbait avoidance, it was usually caught on bread. The majority of the commons I caught were all caught on sweetcorn over Vitalin, the mirrors on boilies.

 

On Brackens, again I caught both mirrors and commons on Smokey Bacon and Smoked Mackeral, although I never caught any  of the three biggest fish on them, but it is possible I had lost them without knowing in my few fish losses.

 

 

[chillfactor]

7 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I'm not sure about how a bait can be specific for a particular strain.

 

 

 

Agree Nick .... but from individual fish to fish they must have different preferences , which could result in them letting there guard down & feeding with no thought of danger . 

[commonly]

Apologies for the use of the word species, when it should of been strains.. 

I am intrigued by the responses & understand that certain fish will prefer a certain bait. 

This is evident at my water, with some angler's having recaptures in a season. As I mentioned above, there are a few commons in there that are very rarely caught. 

Scopex squid! There's a name I haven't heard in a while 🤔

[greekskii]

9 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Years ago there was an ongoing discussion about honey being an attractor for leathers, not sure if Chillfactor remembers or was part of it?

Scientifically proven that Leathers use energy a lot quicker than commons and mirrors and therefore need to feed at all times of the year as they wont store as much in reserve. So if you are targeting a leather in your lake, fish through winter for a better chance of catching it. 

I think its documented from many anglers that fish do have specific tendencies for bait. Basil and a red fishmeal for instance (Nigel Sharp's book as a reference). Commons on sweeter baits is another one you hear a lot but whether there is truth in it I dont know. I would have assumed that due to having more scales, which are made of Keratin, that commons would be more in to baits with higher iron contents; liver, blood and fish meals. 

This might be a good rotary thread?

[B.C.]

9 minutes ago, greekskii said:

Scientifically proven that Leathers use energy a lot quicker than commons and mirrors and therefore need to feed at all times of the year as they wont store as much in reserve. So if you are targeting a leather in your lake, fish through winter for a better chance of catching it. 

I think its documented from many anglers that fish do have specific tendencies for bait. Basil and a red fishmeal for instance (Nigel Sharp's book as a reference). Commons on sweeter baits is another one you hear a lot but whether there is truth in it I dont know. I would have assumed that due to having more scales, which are made of Keratin, that commons would be more in to baits with higher iron contents; liver, blood and fish meals. 

This might be a good rotary thread?

Yes, these are my thoughts too....  Being scavengers they will eat pretty much anything once.... But I'm a great believer in fish "conditioning" themselves to promote good health and ultimately the survival of their species. It makes sense to me that a fish with scales may need slight dietary variation in order to maintain and repair scales...……. This subject came up in conversation elsewhere recently...… Now, I may have mentioned before that me and a mate used to fish together on the same lake, with the same bait, except I would leave some crushed egg shell in mine..... I caught a hell of a lot more commons they he did and he caught quite a few of the elusive mirrors that resided in the lake, I'm convinced that the egg shell played a part, it's slightly soluble and I believe they were drawn to it...…. Another guy (who's opinion I respect), recently went through some old catch diaries going back a few years and noticed that he'd had more commons on baits that contained ingredients containing higher levels of calcium, which , of course, rang a bell to me regarding the egg shell...……. These catches, coincidence? Who knows... I think we can sometimes have tunnel vision and read into something, the things we want to believe...… But , if it gives you confidence in the hunt for a particular fish, then it can only be a good thing imo…….

With tin hat on I'm going to say that imo a common carp is a carp in it's purest form, that's why I like em...

[Carpbell_ll]

When i was fishing kingsbury and using mainlines hybrid i was getting more commons than anything else, i did think back then that the commons in pine pool really liked the hybrid, might be something in it, might not be, on the water i'm fishing at the mo, i have only had mirrors out, i have only been getting out a few times a year though these past few years, the damp air is really messing with my chest, i have always had problems with acid reflux which is now causing a lot of inflammation in my breathing pipes. gonna see if the doc will hook me up with some steroids or something try and cut back on the flair ups and get out fishing a bit more.

[hutch]

Some really good posts on this one and covered a lot of what I would have put.  But I will through this in although i don't believe they require nutritionally anything different maybe there feeding elements are more sensitive/acute to specific elements, so outside of what has already been mentioned like calcium and sweet based ingredients/liquids, possibly certain organic acids (original scopex & banana flavours were based on n butyric both known for catching out commons), aniseed EO is another one.

Quote

Scientifically proven that Leathers use energy a lot quicker than commons and mirrors and therefore need to feed at all times of the year as they wont store as much in reserve. So if you are targeting a leather in your lake, fish through winter for a better chance of catching it. 

Never knew that Vic learn something new every day,  with that in mind maybe a bait that has a good balance of carbs and protein would catch them out more as oppose to one that is mainly designed for its protein levels.

[nigewoodcock]

One of the reasons I mix two different boilies together in my loose feed. 

[greekskii]

32 minutes ago, hutch said:

Never knew that Vic learn something new every day,  with that in mind maybe a bait that has a good balance of carbs and protein would catch them out more as oppose to one that is mainly designed for its protein levels.

Simon Scott told me this little nugget of info which I went on to have a deeper look at. I think it’s a case of fishing through the year for them as during the colder months when most fish shut down the leathers will be slightly more active. 

If you look at some of the big leathers in history and catch dates a lot of them will have been caught in colder weather more regularly than the big mirrors and commons in the same lakes.