Rig masters needed

[nealjt]

Hello all,

 

Am just fiddling with rigs and I like the idea of this;

 

 

My favourite rig material is rigmarole hydro link, stiff inner with braid outer, can do so much with it.

 

So my brain has got working as I like to make a sort of combi rig, mostly stiff, some flexible near the hook but with a portion kept stiff as it leaves the hook. I think the small stiff section can act as a line aliner type set up.

 

Any hoo... I've made this monstrosity above out of solar contour in 40lb with 15lb mouthtrap threaded in the contour. I've not properly straightened the rig so you can see where I've removed the stiff inner.

 

As I say I really like the "idea" of this rig,

 

I'd fish it with either a balanced pop up or slow sinking snowman.

 

The hook is a size 4 choddy krank, but I'd prefer a short shank wide gape hook in a similar size as the krank flexes too much.

 

I would use relativly small baits on a long hair, the bait wouldn't be larger than 15mm in total. With a small pva mesh actually on the hair. (Currently I like a big hook and a small bait)

 

I love the contour as it is heavy and I'd hope help to sink the rig. At the loop end id add putty on the purposely large knot in the hope it settles straight, and hopefully gives it some reset-ability.

 

I like mouthtrap as I can bend it anyway I want, especially the short stiff section on the hook as I'm convinced it helps to hook well and in effect makes the hook even bigger and difficult to eject.

 

So carp.com tear it apart please

[nealjt]

Just to add, I would have the stiff section from the loop as straight as I can get it, but the section from the hook I'd keep as it is.

 

The hair I would have an inch gap between hook bend and bait. The hair would be bait floss either whipped and glued to the hook, or attached via a small ring on the shank with a hook stop.

[newmarket]

Blimey you have a lot going on there Neal you've made me dizzy mate . Whatever happened to the straightforward kk rig ?

[nealjt]

Yeah course! I can make anything complicated!!

[Carpbell_ll]

I'm no rig master i even buy ready made chods  , but i will state the combi rig is my all time favourite, i have not tried the hydro link yet. I just can't get away from locking the albright knot with a drop of super glue, never had a problem with glue, or a albright knot fail when fishing, but if the hydro link is as good as its reputation, might have a spool in my tackle box this year, get away from using glue. ( no i don't buy rig glue, lol)

Do you need to remove any of the fluro on the swivel end of the rig? or does it tie ok with the fluro still in the braid.

[salokcinnodrog]

I went through a stage of threading Amnesia or Fluorocarbon through 25lb Merlin to create a semi-stiff hooklink, loop going through a swivel rather than quick link style, the inner helping the loop to hold true

 

Straight shank hook (I think it was actually a Drennan Super Specialist) with the hair made with whipping thread,and whipped down the hook shank. I seem to recall silicon tubing made up the line aligner.

 

It worked, but was fiddly to keep on doing regularly.

 

By the way, like your Zippo, brass looks nicer than chrome

Got one the same myself!

[nealjt]

Carpbell_ll - I've had no problem with tying rigmarole at all, great for loops and standard knots, definitely easier than an Albright (although that is a satisfying knot

[salokcinnodrog]

Carpbell_ll - I've had no problem with tying rigmarole at all, great for loops and standard knots, definitely easier than an Albright (although that is a satisfying knot )

I've only used the 15lb version so can't comment on the heavier strains but the floro isn't especially stiff. As a hook link hydrolink is brilliant, I'd definitely recommend trying some out.

Nick - I'm impressed, my fingers hurt threading the contour, I wouldn't fancy Merlin!!

The Zippo was a present from my brother is 25 years old! got to be bronze, always! He probably had it with him at taverham when you were fishing there, he's told me stories of seeing a bloke putting baits out on a lilo!

LILO?

 

Probably Klaus, Phil and myself Busted

 

 

Merlin is not that hard to thread through, there is a sneaky secret; a long needle and bunching up the material. As you push the needle through the Merlin, bunch it up, and as its bunched pull the line through the middle. It does also work with the line, but takes longer.

 

I also discovered before Octosplice, (any one remember that by Kesmark), that Merlin and Silkworm could be spliced securely without using a knot at all. The splice will hold on both hooks and swivels without glueing. Again a whipping thread hair.

[beanz]

If this thread had been about " bate ", I may have been able to help 

[nealjt]

Nick - Good idea 're needle, not sure why I didn't try that!

[nealjt]

Octospilce is way before my time! Even Google dosent like it! Found a German supplier with some for sale

[salokcinnodrog]

You may find this interesting:

http://www.carprus.eu/about-the-company.php

 

Splicing stronger than knotting I knew about, and boat ropes are spliced for loops at the end, learnt that as a kid when using a dinghy on the broads, hence my splicing experiments with braids in the early 90's.

[hutch]

Rig master I am not  but will offer my thoughts on this one.

 

First off looking at the crank i can maybe see where beanz problems came from with them, I would hazard a guess that the hook lacks movement in the mouth and gets its hold via a very nasty grab and twist movement so i would go with a different hook pattern like you suggest.

 

I presume like Nick suggested you are going to whip a soft hair material on for the hair 

 

For me a stiff section and long hair are very inefficient as IMO it restricts the movement of the hook in the mouth, for me stiff sections work better with the bait closer to the hook either D rigged or via a hook ring swivel on the shaft held by a bead (not sure well this would work with a snowman untested but works fine with a wafter or pop up).

 

This is what i am currently playing around with

 

In this example the hook bead is set to high (only realised after taken the pic  ) and is set for a pop up, but you can use it with a wafter by sliding the bead closer to the eye, on the bottom it sit with eye slightly cocked by the buoyant bait leaving the hook point heavy so no matter which direction the bait is picked up from the hook will point down into the hooking position and the little bit of exposed braid should give it enough to grab hold (in theory  ).  The hook is attach to the eye with a grinner with the coating still on so it kind of extends the shank, also the coating is left on for the section under the shrink tube to help it hold its shape.

 

The above was designed to give you a couple of things to think about rather than this is the way you should go. 

 

Now for your rig you were going to attach a separate supple hair would it not make sense to tie the hook on with a conventional knot rather no knotting it to the shank and then whipping over the top again, I have found this makes the section round the eye very bulky.

[androoooo]

Have you tried the hydrolink extreme?

[nealjt]

Nick - yes interesting, (amazing how much carp r us claim to have thought of first!) In the time I've been fishing, mainly from 2000 the company seems to have been pushed aside and it almost out of date.

 

I'm going to see how this rig splices, not sure how well it'll work with the stiff inner though.

 

Thank you hutch - I'll have to read your post a few times to reply to all the points!

 

Hookwise I'm thinking some type of short shank wide gape, best I've seen is made by Nash, but I can't bring myself to pay that much! Especially as I've now found two companies that will sell something similar to the krank but for £3!

 

I think I understand what you mean by having the bait closer, not quite convinced though, I like the short stiff section leaving the hook as I think it helps turning, much like the tubing on your rig. My main thoughts with the short stiff section from the hook is something a former member, keenook, said about imagine putting a cocktail stick fully in your mouth and trying to blow it out.... I imagine I could be difficult and the end may well stock in the lip and stop it leaving. With the stiff section on the hook I hope when fully taken in a carps mouth if blown out the stiff bit would hit the lip or side of the mouth and stop thehook leaving the mouth therefore giving the hook more time to get hold, does this make sense? I'll try and find the post.

 

In simple terms I want it to be easily picked up = wafter, but difficult to eject = big hook and stiff bit to stop it leaving.

 

Yes the hook knot in the picture isn't great! I couldn't thread it through the eye so whipped it to the shank! I'll keep playing and ideally it as you say standard knot maybe a grinned and a whipped hair.

 

Androoooooooooooooooo - I've seen the hydro extreme and like the sounds of it. But I really love the solar contour as it is so heavy, I also like the idea of making my "own" hooklink

[hutch]

 

 

I think I understand what you mean by having the bait closer, not quite convinced though, I like the short stiff section leaving the hook as I think it helps turning, much like the tubing on your rig. My main thoughts with the short stiff section from the hook is something a former member, keenook, said about imagine putting a cocktail stick fully in your mouth and trying to blow it out.... I imagine I could be difficult and the end may well stock in the lip and stop it leaving. With the stiff section on the hook I hope when fully taken in a carps mouth if blown out the stiff bit would hit the lip or side of the mouth and stop thehook leaving the mouth therefore giving the hook more time to get hold, does this make sense? I'll try and find the post.

 

 

Like I said I can't tell you weather your right or wrong   , I can only tell what I found from using stiff D rigs last year which was the rig performed better with bait close to the hook, with the hook laid on the bottom with a stiff section you need some to put the hook in that prime position point down, IMO the hook will get pulled in flat as is as the stiff material does not turn unless something flips it, you need to tie 1 up and attach a bait then just try picking the bait up from various angles and watch what the hook does when you move the bait, remember that the suck and blow feeding part happens very quick so the hook need to react in a way that suits this.

[nealjt]

Hutch - am on it! Thank you for explaining, it's funny those moments when things click! I do understand

[hutch]

 

 

an effective rig HAS to enter the mouth so that the hook is already in prime position, as you say point down ready to go in!

 

I wouldn't say it has to be in that position before it goes in but it needs at least the ability to flip into that position quickly, so with a D Rig as the bait is mounted on the ring as soon as you pick the bait up the hook will hang down, in the case of a rig that uses a kicker as soon as the bait is picked up the job of the kicker is to flip the hook.

 

 

 

I look at rigs from the point of view of what happens after a fish either moves or ejects the rig. Nice thank you again

 

As with most things in this game 2 steps back 3 steps forward 

[nealjt]

Who would have thought you'd need a PhD in physics just to catch a carp!?!

[hutch]

 

 

Who would have thought you'd need a PhD in physics just to catch a carp!?!

 

That explains why I am still stuck on the theory and mix results in the practicals     

[jonezy]

Prefer a hand grenade myself. Catches me loads of fish.

[hutch]

 

 

Prefer a hand grenade myself. Catches me loads of fish.

 

Do you use a kicker on the pin     

[nealjt]

[crusian]

And to think Russians have nuclear weapons !!! .

[jonezy]

To be fair, I don't think the two people in the video have access to nuclear weapons.