Do any rigs act as we think

[jemsue5]

Now for all the new members on here i ask this question as to me 99% of all rigs do not act anything like people think in the water for 99% of the time. Many moons past a really good thread on here COMPLICATED RIGS was a really interesting read and i posted my views then and they aint really changed much in the time that has past. I fish mostly very low stocked waters along with one more heavily stocked more pressured water and watching the fish has made me realise in my eyes that 99% of what we read about rigs is total rubbish. Basically they suck it in they spit it out and if we are lucky the hook penetrates enough to spook them. The only real difference i have found is a better hooking ratio on a simple running rig with a light lead. 360 rigs etc are just avoided on my waters (to much metal on show) and a simple knotless knot works far better than most contraptions involving rig rings blah blah blah. What are your opinions? do you think rigs can make a major difference or are they a small part of the overall equation. Before you answer think about the fact that different carp feed in different ways, for instance a deep fat bellied simmo might have to tip right up to pick up bait items but a long slender leney might only have to tip up say 15% to reach the same bait. With this as a consideration which not many will even consider how can we really hope to discover the ultimate rig.

 

 

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=9536

Edited to add link to Complicated rigs thread NG

[stoogi]

I firmly believe that most carp are caught in spite of our rigs, not because of them. I've seen so many videos of carp spitting rigs out that it's a wonder we catch any at all.

[gnorty]

one thing is for sure, with no rig at all, then you will catch nothing.

 

After that, you can think of all the different rigs, which all (presumably) work slightly differently (even if it is not how you think it works). If there is a difference, then it is fairly safe to assume that in a given set of circumstances, then one rig will outperform another.

 

With experience, I guess you might be able to recognise the circumstances that led to a rig working in the past.

 

None of the above seems (to me at least) to be unreasonable, but I tend to prefer a simple hair rig on a light running leger as well. It works reasonably well in most of the circumstances I fish, but I am quite certain that on any particular day, there may well be another rig which would work better (and a few dozen which work less well!

[cobleyn]

I seem to recall a thread like this a few weeks back entitled KISS (not the rock band). My views are much the same as that topic. Keep it as simple as you can- but only if circumstances allow. If you need to go complicated- keep those rigs and rig tying materials in your back pocket (not literally) if you need them.

 

I've seen one or two high profile fisherman saying ' this is all you will EVER need' a smiple knotless knot using a combi link material with some shrink tubing and a bottom bait with some plastic corn.

 

 

......WRONG.....

 

You throw that into a lot of lakes and you'll never get a bite. Its just an indication that a lot of 'names' fish flat bedded pits and ponds with no weed, snags or silt that are well stocked. Unfortunately they need to catch fish for magazines so have to fish easy waters and just assume that their simple wonder rig works everywhere.

 

Kevin Nash has released a DVD about rigs and rig evolution that gives a really good insight into a thinking mans approach to rigs and how and why he's used the rigs where he has over the years.

 

I've personally started to use more 'complicated' rigs again this season after watching the DVD and thinking more about application,as I got into a rut of using the same things.

 

I've added a combi rig using stiff flouro and supple braid (hinged on a loop and a swivel)- instead of shop bought combi material and a hinged stiff rig using a 360 style arrangement to my armourey this year.

 

The combi link has seen moderately more success, but the otehr rig has smashed one water in particular, that was proving to be tough. So I think it does make a difference.

[moorsey]

I have used the same rig for several years and it has worked well for me in English gravel pits and the Thames as well as French lakes and the river Saone. The most important thing is to put that rig in the right spot.

[salokcinnodrog]

I have used the same rig for several years and it has worked well for me in English gravel pits and the Thames as well as French lakes and the river Saone. The most important thing is to put that rig in the right spot.

 

I totally agree that location is the first part of fishing, but I also think that at times there is a need to come up with something more complicated than the basic. Obviously on "overstocked" lakes the carp will have to pick up almost every item, and in order to make sure that they get the food item will take a massive risk to eat it first. Yet on waters with different circumstances, be it weed, more wary fish or fish that don't necessarily need to eat bait to survive, then you may well need to go more complicated.

 

I also think that in many cases anglers avoid the next step in rig evolution, jumping into the fashionable rig as opposed to the next step forward.

 

A very inefficient rig can be made very efficient by getting the feeding situation right

[beanz]

how can we really hope to discover the ultimate rig.

 

 

sounds like a golfer searching for the perfect round same for our sport, i dont think you can ever win at it,only take part.

 

the one thing i do think that makes a rig the "ultimate" is its anti eject qualities,like the stiff hinge,chod but saying that in many situations it can work against you............so as long as any rig has a sharpe hook then it will do.

 

its all the possible variables that make the sport interesting, and so many theories talked about....and all the forums going.

[carpking4]

Location, location, I won't fish at the syndicate without finding the fish and this year I had a ggod hit at finding the fish, putting 200 baits in a massive area and then firing 3 or 4 choddies onto that area, however onto the waters I fished the year before, I couldn't catch on choddies, I could only catch on "simple" rigs such as the "blowback" and a simple bit of line aligned shrink tube and the hair coming off of the middle of the shank, the first ever hair rig occording to kevin Nash and if any of you have seen his illustration of which a carp sucks and blows, I strongly agree with it

 

A carp sucking, when a carp sucks, it sucks the hook and boilie back into the back of it's mouth, and then blows, thus the boilie goes out first followed by the hook turning and going out bend first which will not enable the hook to catch hold

 

So basically the carp uses the mass of the boilie when blowing to turn the hook over and make it come out bend first

 

Watch his video on YouTube it's about 3 minutes from the end on his guide for rigs part 2 (rig mechanics) o

[Guest keenook]

CK4,

I think you will find that the original "hair rig" used for Carp was tied directly to yhe bend of the hook and not the shank, the hair was tied with very fine mono.

[moorsey]

CK4,

I think you will find that the original "hair rig" used for Carp was tied directly to yhe bend of the hook and not the shank, the hair was tied with very fine mono.

 

Indeed it was. I was lucky enough to be shown it before KM publicised it and if I hadn't seen it in use I would have considered it a practical joke.

[carpking4]

sorry, thats what i meant, because he says something like 'the people that used the hair rig had no hair as they had used it as the hair on the actuall rig' lol

 

and i got confused with the 'blowback ring' and the hair, indeed it did come off of the bend of the hook, and thanks for pointing me in the right direction

 

thanks dan

 

What do we all think to the all new solar end gear range? the supposed camo range (weed effect)

[Guest keenook]

They used Kevin Maddocks wife's hair originally

[carpking4]

Location, location, I won't fish at the syndicate without finding the fish and this year I had a ggod hit at finding the fish, putting 200 baits in a massive area and then firing 3 or 4 choddies onto that area, however onto the waters I fished the year before, I couldn't catch on choddies, I could only catch on "simple" rigs such as the "blowback" and a simple bit of line aligned shrink tube and the hair coming off of the middle of the shank, the first ever hair rig occording to kevin Nash and if any of you have seen his illustration of which a carp sucks and blows, I strongly agree with it

 

A carp sucking, when a carp sucks, it sucks the hook and boilie back into the back of it's mouth, and then blows, thus the boilie goes out first followed by the hook turning and going out bend first which will not enable the hook to catch hold

 

Watch his video on YouTube it's about 3 minutes from the end on his guide for rigs part 2 (rig mechanics) o

[zammmo]

This is such a coincidence..My wife bought me 2 fishing dvd's yesterday "Carp from the start" by Kevin Maddocks...It shows him using the hair on the bend on one rod and on the other a maple side hooked..He was catching loads on both rods...

[salokcinnodrog]

Its a case of examining every situation as you come to it, and I work on where I where I hook the Carp. I want the Carp to be as confident in my bait as possible, so I tend to keep rigs as simple as possible as well.

 

If I need the hair length extended I will do so.

 

 

Taken from Andy Littles, Anglers Mail Guide to Carp Fishing, must have been published in the late 80's/early 90's

 

[nafy118]

nick, that last post just goes to show why some rigs (blow back in particular) have earnt themselves such a name for them selves

[moorsey]

Good post Nick but if you watch and study how carp feed you will find that the early assumptions about how the bait is blown out were somewhat flawed. The carp sucks in all sorts of rubbish while it is feeding and then uses "the curtain" to help it sort out the junk from the food. The food should get stuck behind the curtain and the heavier bits of rubbish get blown out below the curtain.[if you get a chance to watch tank fish they look as if they are chewing] In short the carp would be unlikely to be trying to blow out the boilie as this would be recognised as a food item but it would be trying to hold the boilie and blow out the hook.

Keith

[salokcinnodrog]

Good post Nick but if you watch and study how carp feed you will find that the early assumptions about how the bait is blown out were somewhat flawed. The carp sucks in all sorts of rubbish while it is feeding and then uses "the curtain" to help it sort out the junk from the food. The food should get stuck behind the curtain and the heavier bits of rubbish get blown out below the curtain.[if you get a chance to watch tank fish they look as if they are chewing] In short the carp would be unlikely to be trying to blow out the boilie as this would be recognised as a food item but it would be trying to hold the boilie and blow out the hook.

Keith

 

Sure, totally agree, which is why the hair is so important, yet why so many people fail miserably when they fish a bait close to the shank with a very short or non existant hair.

[moorsey]

Yep.

[Guest keenook]

So explain how my short fluro stiff rig on a KK is so effective Nick? No supple hair, just bog standard, with a loop at the swivel. All carp are nailed on this rig, combined with a 80's bolt rig, or pure runners?

[moorsey]

So explain how my short fluro stiff rig on a KK is so effective Nick? No supple hair, just bog standard, with a loop at the swivel. All carp are nailed on this rig, combined with a 80's bolt rig, or pure runners?

 

Just plain lucky I guess

[beanz]

the d ring has a bait close to the hook,and classes as a short or non existent hair.

 

with surface or zig fishing its more effective to have the bait close to the hook.

 

the is no right and wrong,only situations where one suits better

[moorsey]

With surface fishing you tend to be striking at the visible take. With a bait on the lake bed you are relying on the rig doing some of the work for you.

[cobleyn]

On the hinged 360 rig I have been using latterly this year; I've been tying the pop-up onto a mini swivel that is threaded onto the shank of a longshank nailer. This is then held in place by two float stops. So the hair (ie. the swivel) is only a 5mm long,but it has the ability to move 15mm as the carp blows out,as its not anchored in place on the shank. I can't say I fully understand the physics of how it works- but it seems to be doing the business.

 

NB. Whilst I haven't noticed mouth damage whilst using these hooks- I do understand the issues with them and wouldn't recommend them to anyone fishing for fish that will get caught more than a couple of times a season.

[pippa1972]

my self ive allways had rigs based on the origanal hair rig but with some alterations and i still catch when otheres blank . with mags showing the new BIG rig to use most peaple jump on the band wagon with out thinking and knowing how the rig works and how carp feed , if new or old carp anglers took the time to study how carp feed they will learn a lot more then jumping on the new BIG rig .