Dan Brown - Angels & Demons

[tonybranno]

With the motion picture being released just this week i decided to get the "heads up" so to speak on the storyline by reading the book first before i went to see the film. I did this with another one of Dan Browns novels, The Da Vinci Code and im glad i did cos even though the film is very good, the book is so much better.

 

Ok back to Angels & Demons.

 

I finished the book this morning and just like the Da Vinci Code, Dan Browns' writing style leaves you with a lot of questions until the last few chapters where everything falls into place just like a jigsaw and makes for such compelling reading that you really cant put the book down. I found myself saying, 'One more chapter', 'One more chapter' until you just have to finish the book.

 

Once again like The Da Vinci Code, the character Robert Langdon who is a Symbologist features heavily in the storyline and he is summoned to CERN at Geneva to investigate a death of a scientist who has been "branded" with an ancient ambiagram before he was robbed of a destructive new substance called 'antimatter'. Obviously i dont want to say too much and ruin the book for others but the storyline then unfolds and takes him onto Rome where he has to use his expertise in tracking down a so called 'Hassassin' supposedly hired by an ancient cult who call themselves the 'Illumnati' who are threatening to destroy the Vatican with this 'antimatter'.

 

Its a fantastic book and i would definately highly recommend it

[tcbuk]

I thoroughly enjoyed all of Dan Browns books and thought both Digital Fortress and Deception Point were both as good if not better than the previous two.

 

I suspect Angels and Demons, the film, will fall short of the book, as did the Da Vinci Code, although I usually find most films do.

 

Looking forward to seeing the film nonetheless.

[tonybranno]

I suspect Angels and Demons, the film, will fall short of the book, as did the Da Vinci Code, although I usually find most films do.

 

And it does, i saw the film tonight.

 

I was a tad disappointed about the film to be honest. Its good, but it has been loosely based on the novel and i feel it leaves out quite a few of the key moments that feature in the book. But then again i suppose you must expect that. It must be hard for a filmaker to condense 600 odd pages of a very well written novel into just over a 2 hour film.

 

Its still a very well made film though

[stevew1805]

I am sorry to have to say this Tony - Dan Brown is popular novelist, but he can't write for toffee. Just like the Mills and Boon crowd.

 

I rarely read fiction (mainly because I am continually disappointed), but I was caught in an airport one time, so I did read The Da Vinci Code.

 

The writing is dreadful. He has not the slightest conception of how to construct fluid and balanced sentences; he is wooden, stilted, and his style (such as it is) is closer to Janet and John than to any author of merit.

 

He has a good eye for a story - but he can't write!

 

S

[beza26]

Im sorry stevew1805 but i cant agree with that, i havent read angels and demons but when i read the da vinchi code while on holiday abroad whilst on the beach every day i couldnt get my head out of it, every night when we was getting ready to go out and i was already done and just waiting for the missus all i wanted to do was read that book, to be honest when i finished reading it i was gutted it had ended and is definately by far the best book ive ever read

[stevew1805]

Im sorry stevew1805 but i cant agree with that, i havent read angels and demons but when i read the da vinchi code while on holiday abroad whilst on the beach every day i couldnt get my head out of it, every night when we was getting ready to go out and i was already done and just waiting for the missus all i wanted to do was read that book, to be honest when i finished reading it i was gutted it had ended and is definately by far the best book ive ever read

 

That's fine Beza, but let me try and explain what I mean.

 

A novel like The Da Vinci code has, at the very least, two levels. The first is the language and construction of the work. The second is the message or story. Many people mistake a good story for a well written book, when it is perfectly possible to tell a good story badly, or even a bad story well.

 

The Da Vinci Code is a good story, which is why it ended as a best seller. However, it was badly written, which is why I make my point above.

 

I tend to observe the language first and the message second. A lot of folk observe the message first and the language not at all - which is why the top ten fictional books are mostly poor when viewed as literary efforts.

 

This state of affairs has generally come about owing to the manner in which English is taught in our schools. I don't know too much about modern teaching, but I was taught only the very basics of grammar, and had to teach myself the rest. When I realised I had to do this, I was cheesed off to say the least. I felt let down. But there you are.

 

To give you an example - a chap could say:

 

"Ta very much. Im grateful to ya".

 

Or he could say:

 

"It is not a thing for which one can render formal thanks in formal words. I store it in the treasure-house of my heart. I keep it there as a secret debt that I am glad to think I can never possibly repay. It is embalmed and kept sweet by the myrrh and cassia of many tears. When wisdom has been profitless to me, philosophy barren, and the proverbs and phrases of those who have sought to give me consolation as dust and ashes in my mouth, the memory of that little, lovely, silent act of love has unsealed for me all the wells of pity: made the desert blossom like a rose, and brought me out of the bitterness of lonely exile into harmony with the wounded, broken, and great heart of the world."

The message is basically the same; but the writing in the first example is boorish, whereas in the second it is profoundly beautiful!

 

Dan Brown could write the first piece quite easily, but the second would, I believe, be totally beyond him

 

S

[useph]

I suspect Angels and Demons, the film, will fall short of the book, as did the Da Vinci Code, although I usually find most films do.

 

And it does, i saw the film tonight.

 

I was a tad disappointed about the film to be honest. Its good, but it has been loosely based on the novel and i feel it leaves out quite a few of the key moments that feature in the book. But then again i suppose you must expect that. It must be hard for a filmaker to condense 600 odd pages of a very well written novel into just over a 2 hour film.

 

Its still a very well made film though

 

i havn't read the book which is probably why i would rate it higher than you because i didn't know what to expect. i saw it on wednesday. i didn't even know there was a book. it was a really good film and i thoroughly recommend it

[tonybranno]

I am sorry to have to say this Tony - Dan Brown is popular novelist, but he can't write for toffee. Just like the Mills and Boon crowd.

 

I rarely read fiction (mainly because I am continually disappointed), but I was caught in an airport one time, so I did read The Da Vinci Code.

 

The writing is dreadful. He has not the slightest conception of how to construct fluid and balanced sentences; he is wooden, stilted, and his style (such as it is) is closer to Janet and John than to any author of merit.

 

He has a good eye for a story - but he can't write!

 

S

 

Well thats obviously your opinion and you are welcome to it, im not gonna sit here and write something to try and get you to see my point of view cos thats pointless.

 

But all i know is that i think he is a damn good author and both of his novels that i have read have hit the spot with me. Like Beza has said, i also found it hard to put both books down once i started reading them so for me, thats all i expect from a book. Im not looking for anything else TBH.

 

I know you see yourself as a wonder with a pen and the English language, some of your threads bare witness to that and like i said you are welcome to your opinion, but failed writers see themselves has good critics IMO.

 

If and when you get anything published yourself be sure to let me know..... cos i will be right here on the edge of my seat waiting to read it

 

And by the way.....

 

To give you an example - a chap could say:

 

"Ta very much. Im grateful to ya".

 

Or he could say:

 

"It is not a thing for which one can render formal thanks in formal words. I store it in the treasure-house of my heart. I keep it there as a secret debt that I am glad to think I can never possibly repay. It is embalmed and kept sweet by the myrrh and cassia of many tears. When wisdom has been profitless to me, philosophy barren, and the proverbs and phrases of those who have sought to give me consolation as dust and ashes in my mouth, the memory of that little, lovely, silent act of love has unsealed for me all the wells of pity: made the desert blossom like a rose, and brought me out of the bitterness of lonely exile into harmony with the wounded, broken, and great heart of the world."

The message is basically the same; but the writing in the first example is boorish, whereas in the second it is profoundly beautiful!

 

Thats all very good, but if i wanted to read War and Peace i would.

[tcbuk]

 

To give you an example - a chap could say:

 

"Ta very much. Im grateful to ya".

 

Or he could say:

 

"It is not a thing for which one can render formal thanks in formal words. I store it in the treasure-house of my heart. I keep it there as a secret debt that I am glad to think I can never possibly repay. It is embalmed and kept sweet by the myrrh and cassia of many tears. When wisdom has been profitless to me, philosophy barren, and the proverbs and phrases of those who have sought to give me consolation as dust and ashes in my mouth, the memory of that little, lovely, silent act of love has unsealed for me all the wells of pity: made the desert blossom like a rose, and brought me out of the bitterness of lonely exile into harmony with the wounded, broken, and great heart of the world."

The message is basically the same; but the writing in the first example is boorish, whereas in the second it is profoundly beautiful!

 

Dan Brown could write the first piece quite easily, but the second would, I believe, be totally beyond him

 

S

 

Whatever floats your boat mate.

 

Personally I dont get a lot of time to read but when I do I dont want to have to think too much about it.

 

Given the 2 choices of styles above, I'll take the first.

 

Profound beauty ? .... Possibly to some ... to me ... poncy drivel and a headache in the making.

[stevew1805]

Thats all very good, but if i wanted to read War and Peace i would.

 

135 words? Hardly War and Peace (1408 pages)?

 

I don't really think I am too much of a whiz with a pen. But I do try hard on presenting my thoughts on forums such as this so people can easily understand what I am trying to say.

 

When the medium you are using is utterly dominated by the written word, I feel the least I can do is to try and make the posts as pleasant and readable as possible.

 

Seems only fair to me.

[stevew1805]

Personally I dont get a lot of time to read but when I do I dont want to have to think too much about it.

 

I too sometimes like to pour over an easy read when I am stressed or tired. But when I am trying to read for educational purposes, how do I learn from a book (even a carping book) without thinking?

[misterrun]

Thats all very good, but if i wanted to read War and Peace i would.

 

135 words? Hardly War and Peace (1408 pages)?

 

I don't really think I am too much of a whiz with a pen. But I do try hard on presenting my thoughts on forums such as this so people can easily understand what I am trying to say.

 

When the medium you are using is utterly dominated by the written word, I feel the least I can do is to try and make the posts as pleasant and readable as possible.

 

Seems only fair to me.

 

 

In all fairness and bringing the discussion back to the original comment, I think the point being made was that it is easier on the brain to read a comment of seven words as opposed to reading something that says the same using 135 words? Hence the referral to War and Peace. I would imagine that book could be condensed somewhat without losing the theme?

 

But then again, it probably wouldn't have been judged as a "classical piece of work"?

 

[stevew1805]

But then again, it probably wouldn't have been judged as a "classical piece of work"?

 

Quite so. I agree entirely. In fact - that's my point. I would suggest, as time goes on, My Brown's works will slowly drift out of print and be found only in second hand book stalls; whereas Tolstoy will remain "regarded as among the greatest of European novelists".

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy

 

But then he is not everyone's cup of tea, I understand that. The reason I posted on this thread was that Mr Dan Brown was getting good press when he very clearly does not deserve it. But if you won't take my word for it, here is Stephen Fry (who does write well):

 

"complete loose stool-water" and "arse (backside) gravy of the worst kind."

 

And here is Stephen King (not quite so good as the previous Stephen):

 

Stephen King put Dan Brown's work and "Jokes for the John" on the same level, calling such literature the "intellectual equivalent of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese."

 

Of course everyone is entitled to their own likes and opinions, but you really should believe me when I say that Dan Brown's work is poor; even if you enjoy it. I am only a novice when it comes to carp fishing, but I know considerably more about literature.

[tcbuk]

But then again, it probably wouldn't have been judged as a "classical piece of work"?

 

Quite so. I agree entirely. In fact - that's my point. I would suggest, as time goes on, My Brown's works will slowly drift out of print and be found only in second hand book stalls; whereas Tolstoy will remain "regarded as among the greatest of European novelists".

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy

 

But then he is not everyone's cup of tea, I understand that. The reason I posted on this thread was that Mr Dan Brown was getting good press when he very clearly does not deserve it. But if you won't take my word for it, here is Stephen Fry (who does write well):

 

"complete loose stool-water" and "[censored] (backside) gravy of the worst kind."

 

And here is Stephen King (not quite so good as the previous Stephen):

 

Stephen King put Dan Brown's work and "Jokes for the John" on the same level, calling such literature the "intellectual equivalent of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese."

 

Of course everyone is entitled to their own likes and opinions, but you really should believe me when I say that Dan Brown's work is poor; even if you enjoy it. I am only a novice when it comes to carp fishing, but I know considerably more about literature.

 

Well, there's 3 people who dont appreciate Dan Brown.

 

There was a lot of hype about The Da Vinci Code and I suspect quite a few people purchased it and did not enjoy it.

 

However, the millions who then went on to purchase Angels and Demons, Digital Fortress and then Deception Point clearly thought otherwise.

 

I also suspect a large number of those millions would think pretty much the same of Stephen Fry as he does about Dan Brown.

 

How you can say his success is undeserved I just dont know. Dan Brown clearly knows what people want and gives it to them.

 

As I've said before, each to their own.

 

However, I would not start slating someone just because I dont enjoy their work.

[tonybranno]

But I do try hard on presenting my thoughts on forums such as this so people can easily understand what I am trying to say.

 

When the medium you are using is utterly dominated by the written word, I feel the least I can do is to try and make the posts as pleasant and readable as possible.

 

Seems only fair to me.

 

Thats all well and good but its only a forum and the normal run of the mill, well punctuated English with proper spelling will suffice. You are not writing an eassy for an English literature A level test paper

 

I would suggest, as time goes on, My Brown's works will slowly drift out of print and be found only in second hand book stalls; whereas Tolstoy will remain "regarded as among the greatest of European novelists".

 

Ive heard of Tolstoy, have i read any of his work..... no! Because if i had to read 150 words of a book just to understand something that can be written in 15 words then im sorry, that doesnt interest me at all.

 

Yes i agree it will be beautifully written, but thats not the sort of thing i would like to read. Now im not saying because of that, that makes me thick or stupid, its just something like that doesnt float my boat.

 

The reason I posted on this thread was that Mr Dan Brown was getting good press when he very clearly does not deserve it.

 

Well he must be doing something right cos his books sell by the shed loads and TBH, your post above, quite frankly sounds like a bit of jealousy on your part.

 

Of course everyone is entitled to their own likes and opinions, but you really should believe me when I say that Dan Brown's work is poor; even if you enjoy it.

 

Yes and i can take on board your opinion but once again, trying to MAKE us believe in your opinion is the right one is a bit too much to take.

 

I dont read much, i find it hard to find the time. In fact i very rarely read novels but i read Angels and Demons on the strength of The Da Vinci Code because i enjoyed that, and once again i enjoyed this book as well, if not more. If an author can keep my head in a book till the conclusion then thats all good and is all im looking for, the author has done his job well IMO.

 

If you dont like Dan Brown, or this novel..... then thats upto you, i couldnt give a damn either way. But all i was trying to do was write a review on a book that kept me entertained because im sure someone else would enjoy the book just as i did. But for then to have my thoughts torn apart by some jumped up would be writer who then tries to compare Dan Brown to a so called "great" like Tolstoy is a tad over the top IMO. Its along the same lines as trying to compare a Sunday League football player to Pele.

 

Im certain Dan Brown would himself would say hes not in the same class as Tolstoy, but then again, would he lose sleep over that? I very much doubt it cos im certain thats not his objective in the first place. He is writing excellent, easy to read and understandable novels with fantastic storylines..... and hes getting paid for it. Which is what a lot of todays authors are doing

[fruit_bat]

I have read all of the books mentioned in this thread and thoroughly enjoyed them all. I found they kept me engrossed in the story and all had some nice twists and turns.

 

A writer has a team of people including an editor who make demands of the writer in order to sell books. Pretty ure Dan Brown could write a book making more of the language but would it sell?

 

Simple fact is these books are written to sell as many copies as possible, Dan Brown and his team are bloody good at it and long may it continue as I need a new book for the summer holidays

 

Kev

[stevew1805]

I dont read much ...

 

... He is writing excellent, easy to read and understandable novels with fantastic storylines....

 

If I were to assess what you have written, the result would be as crystal for those who understand education.

 

However, I draw your attention to what you have said in quotes above and ask the inevitable question: given the former admission, how can you possibly substantiate the latter assertion?

 

You seem to be arguing this: something is enjoyable, ergo it is good, but I am hopeful that you can see the speared and wholly obvious flaw in this suggestion.

 

There seems little point in continuing this thread really. I have pointed out some issues with Mr Brown's writing, and if you cannot see them (and you don't read) I fail to see how you can defend them.

 

Let us leave things as they are now. I will carry on reading (and thus educating myself), and you can carry on with your own method of self realisation.

 

I rather think the gulf between us is too great to do anything other than this.

 

I wish you well, good luck, and tight lines.

 

S

[carpingod150]

Steve, you're a clever fella. Well done. Keep it to yourself in future though!

[stevew1805]

Steve, you're a clever fella. Well done. Keep it to yourself in future though!

 

Point taken. Your advice is good, so a public thanks to you, and a public apology if I have caused offence to any others. None meant.

 

Good fishing all.

 

S

[salokcinnodrog]

I have read a few of Dan Browns Books including Angels and Demons and The Da Vinci Code, those 2 I just thought "OH Gawd, what pants!"

 

Sorry, it takes a controversial subject to make him a Best Seller.

 

I read Deception Point, not brilliant, readable, but not something I would say had to be read. It is down to the controversy involved that made me read the other two named and I have to say, I won't be reading anymore.

 

I find classic writing a lot more readable and enjoyable, although Gone With the Wind was a bit much

[carpsoup]

Unfortunately, I read The Da Vinci Code because of the hype. I couldn't believe how badly written it was. The basic premise was OK but it left me feeling as though i wanted to stick my head in an oven and turn it on...... But then i thought no, I'd like to stick Dan Browns head in an oven and turn it on.

[beza26]

Just finished reading "The lost symbol", anybody else read this book yet? Loved it, couldnt put it down and kept on wanting to read one more chapter, 500 pages later........ It was a brilliant read and to anyone who likes Dan Browns books go get it!

Everyone who doesnt like him and thinks he writes poorly ill save you the bother of typing it because ive heard it all before so would appreciate it if only heard back off people who share my views.

Cant be bothered debating and when it comes down to this kind of writing i havent got the intelligence to fight back so people agreeing only please

[newmarket]

Cant believe its taken me 4 years to find this thread .

Keep it up boys , best thread i've come across in years .

 

I havent laughed so much since grandma died.....

[hoorayhenri]

Ab absurdo springs to mind.