Pigeon conditioner

[mrmud]

Hey everyone looking to get a sack for spodding. Hopefully something without aniseed if that's possible.

Anyone got any recommendations

Thans

[elmoputney]

If you have a local feed place nearby go and have a look, I usually get a aniseed free one, I am out kids swimming now but I will have a look what it is called when I get home. 

[salokcinnodrog]

7 hours ago, mrmud said:

Hey everyone looking to get a sack for spodding. Hopefully something without aniseed if that's possible.

Anyone got any recommendations

Thans

Pigeon conditioner is full of aniseed, it is used to 'detoxify' after racing and as a 'trapping' mix.

You can get Chicken mix, chicken corn or chicken conditioner which is aniseed free, or Wild bird seed.

My advice is to head into the, local animal feed suppliers and have a look around, it's obviously carriage free.

If you can't, I'll try to give you a decent link.

[elmoputney]

This is the one I use it does have maize and maples, in it so I soak it and give it a good boil also. 

[salokcinnodrog]

9 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

If you can't, I'll try to give you a decent link.

 

8 hours ago, elmoputney said:

This is the one I use it does have maize and maples, in it so I soak it and give it a good boil also. 

Or @elmoputney can beat me to it with a good picture.

Lots of choices for pigeon and chicken feeds

[mrmud]

Cheers guys. It's a nicely priced too compared to the haiths red brand

[salokcinnodrog]

On 09/06/2024 at 20:29, mrmud said:

Cheers guys. It's a nicely priced too compared to the haiths red brand

Thing with Haith's, they were probably the first mail order bird food store for aviary birds and pigeons. Then us anglers discovered them.

In terms of quality, I have never bought any bad products, but as with everything cost is high compared to other animal feed suppliers.

I still do get occasional bits from Haiths, but I do get birdfood from Gladwells or if I only want a small bag of a kilo or so, the supermarket**. 

Gladwells do a mail order service as well as the shops they have an online order page (https://gladwellspet.co.uk/), so with the link you can have a looksee online or if there is a local shop to you go in in person.

 

** I put the asterisks in because I have noticed that some supermarket packaging has had things printed on them like 'packaged for Sainsbury's by Haiths'.

 

 

 

On 09/06/2024 at 01:38, mrmud said:

Hey everyone looking to get a sack for spodding. Hopefully something without aniseed if that's possible.

Anyone got any recommendations

Thans

May I also suggest mixing it with hemp.

The two together can really get the fish grubbing around.

I would say on a ratio of 2 parts pigeon conditioner to 1 part hemp.

[ouchthathurt]

Why without the aniseed mate? 

[mrmud]

1 hour ago, ouchthathurt said:

Why without the aniseed mate? 

The ones containing aniseed seems to be what most people's are throwing in at the current venue I'm "trying to fish" and I've never seen anyone catch a carp from this venue(I've only had 3 all year so far)so I thought I'd try and use something without it and maybe the simple switch to no aniseed might be enough to trick a few to grub down 🤷🏽‍♂️.

I have a bag of aniseed here and plan add some during boiling when I next boil some up and test them both out at the same time after a few sessions trying the plain stuff.

 

Thanks @salokcinnodrog. Will be looking to get a sack of hemp. The stuff I got has hemp in it but not a lot. It's got 20 seeds in apparently.

Bamfords multi task is what I have

[salokcinnodrog]

32 minutes ago, mrmud said:

The ones containing aniseed seems to be what most people's are throwing in at the current venue I'm "trying to fish" and I've never seen anyone catch a carp from this venue(I've only had 3 all year so far)so I thought I'd try and use something without it and maybe the simple switch to no aniseed might be enough to trick a few to grub down 🤷🏽‍♂️.

I have a bag of aniseed here and plan add some during boiling when I next boil some up and test them both out at the same time after a few sessions trying the plain stuff.

 

Thanks @salokcinnodrog. Will be looking to get a sack of hemp. The stuff I got has hemp in it but not a lot. It's got 20 seeds in apparently.

Bamfords multi task is what I have

 

1 hour ago, ouchthathurt said:

Why without the aniseed mate? 

It might not just be down to aniseed, it could actually be the whole pigeon conditioner and hookbait.

Small particles can get the fish grubbing, but quite frequently they won't take a big bait over them, a 15mm boilie is too big.

It may be that you need to be using hookbaits no bigger than 10mm, or the size of say 2 grains of sweetcorn.

I've had to come up with a presentation of small baits on the syndicate if I fish over particles, and that involves 2 6mm pop-ups meshed together on a Multi-rig, or the next experiment, meshed grains of hemp tied to the hook.

 

The alternative option is to use bigger baits in your groundbait or freebies, and that's not just a few bigger boilies in your pigeon conditioner, but bigger freebies altogether.

I say "bigger baits in your groundbait or freebies", but sometimes the carp will ignore the boilies themselves, so your bigger freebies may be bigger particles like maples, chick peas, kidney beans, or even just boilies as the freebies.

 

 

[yonny]

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

..... it could actually be the whole pigeon conditioner.....

I agree. If everyone is blanking on particle I don't think the addition or deduction of aniseed makes a bit of difference. I'd be heading over to boiled baits (in fact post spawning is when I believe boilies to be at their most effective). Or maybe naturals. Something totally different anyway.

Edited June 20 by yonny

[mrmud]

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I've had to come up with a presentation of small baits on the syndicate if I fish over particles, and that involves 2 6mm pop-ups

Not fished with pop-ups that small. What size hook do you use for them on your multirig

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Small particles can get the fish grubbing, but quite frequently they won't take a big bait over them, a 15mm boilie is too big.

 

24 minutes ago, yonny said:

I agree. If everyone is blanking on particle I don't think the addition or deduction of aniseed makes a bit of difference. I'd be heading over to boiled baits (in fact post spawning is when I believe boilies to be at their most effective). Or maybe naturals. Something totally different anyway.

Food for thought.

Got plenty of the stuff to use up along with a sack of goat feed(vitalin replacement) and a sack of cut maize(misses got the cut instead of full maize 🤷🏽‍♂️).

Ill try something different on one rod away from the particles.

[salokcinnodrog]

2 hours ago, mrmud said:

Not fished with pop-ups that small. What size hook do you use for them on your multirig

I still use size 6's, and the rig is short, no more than from base of palm to tip of middle finger. I normally put the whole rig in a PVA bag of very small pellets, crushed boilies and ground breadcrumb.

I spent ages making a 1egg mix of pop-ups that small!

 

 

 

The bait is simply tied to the rig ring and lighter blobbed

[mrmud]

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I spent ages making a 1egg mix of pop-ups that small!

 

Making pop-ups is a whole different area I've not looked into properly yet but will look online and see what's around.

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I still use size 6's, and the rig is short, no more than from base of palm to tip of middle finger. I normally put the whole rig in a PVA bag of very small pellets, crushed boilies and ground breadcrumb.

Would you still use the rig for bottom baits like a few grains of maize or a boilie on a running set-up 

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, mrmud said:

Making pop-ups is a whole different area I've not looked into properly yet but will look online and see what's around.

Would you still use the rig for bottom baits like a few grains of maize or a boilie on a running set-up 

I normally get pop-up mix from BAF.

https://www.britishaquafeeds.com/pop-ups-and-wafters

For normal size pop-ups I put them through a rolling table as per normal baits and boil them keeping them moving.

For the tiny ones they are all done by hand.

 

For a boilie or maize on the hook, I go back to a standard hair rig and line aligner with a rig ring on the shank.

[mrmud]

@salokcinnodrog can I pick your brains again please 🙏🏼.

How long can I keep the cooked particles with no preservatives. There so many differences of opinion online.

I planned to go last Monday. They had the 24hrs soak and 30mins boil.

After my failed attempt to get on the bank I added a bit more pond water to the cooked particles(not added anything to preserve like salt) so they were covered.

I've opened them today to see if they're okay in preparation for tomorrow and the smell abit like sick(soon cleared my kitchen 😂). I know it's the fermentation process but don't know at what point they're bad

I've drained n rinsed it with pond water n it doesn't smell too bad.

Do you think I'm still good to use it or should I boil up the seed I got soaking

[framey]

The sickly smell is when they work their best..👍👍

[mrmud]

1 hour ago, framey said:

The sickly smell is when they work their best..👍👍

Wish I knew that before I rinsed them. It's mad how bad it smells to us but not to the fish.

How long would you say they keep as long as they're in a cool place without any preservatives(don't have alot of freezer space. The misses won't listen n keeps putting food in there 😂). I've read you can keep it until you physically can't stomach the smell

Also if there's some left at the end of a session is it best to leave them as they are or cover them in water until next session or just add preservatives once boiled 

[jh92]

4 minutes ago, mrmud said:

Wish I knew that before I rinsed them. It's mad how bad it smells to us but not to the fish.

How long would you say they keep as long as they're in a cool place without any preservatives(don't have alot of freezer space. The misses won't listen n keeps putting food in there 😂). I've read you can keep it until you physically can't stomach the smell

Also if there's some left at the end of a session is it best to leave them as they are or cover them in water until next session or just add preservatives once boiled 

I think most particles can spoil after a while mate and can put the fish off 🤔 I prefer to use fresh, up to a few days old. 

I also drain/freeze it in zip lock bags, store the juices in a bottle in the freezer and when thawing out add it back to the particle with some extras. I normally use condensed milk and evaporated milk. Makes a nice cloud 👍

My particle mix at the moment is hemp, standard and jumbo tigers, whole maize and flaked maize. Jumbo tiger with a piece of pop up maize as the hook bait 👍 

[framey]

It’s been known to scrape the mould off and still been ok 

think n butyric acid rancid milk and baby puke but I don’t think it’s that bad lol 

I had a 17l tub of pigeon conditioner brewing for about 6 weeks before. But that was a few years ago.

I was still happy to use it but it’s all down to how you feel about it and if you can Stomach  the smell 

saving grace is people tend to stay away 

and don’t get it over you if spodding..

 

[salokcinnodrog]

3 hours ago, mrmud said:

@salokcinnodrog can I pick your brains again please 🙏🏼.

How long can I keep the cooked particles with no preservatives. There so many differences of opinion online.

I planned to go last Monday. They had the 24hrs soak and 30mins boil.

After my failed attempt to get on the bank I added a bit more pond water to the cooked particles(not added anything to preserve like salt) so they were covered.

I've opened them today to see if they're okay in preparation for tomorrow and the smell abit like sick(soon cleared my kitchen 😂). I know it's the fermentation process but don't know at what point they're bad

I've drained n rinsed it with pond water n it doesn't smell too bad.

Do you think I'm still good to use it or should I boil up the seed I got soaking

I used to want my particles as fresh as possible, preferably still warm as I was catapulting them in.

Then I fished a water with hemp I'd prepared Friday, by Sunday it seemed to get better and better as it got sticky and slimy.

Pigeon conditioner is another one that as it smells a bit fermented is better.

Even so, I had some that went beyond that, that I thought was off, with mould appearing on the top, so I poured it in the margins for the swans, and within a few minutes carp were on it.

I simply don't take particles home, either poured on the bank to keep the swans and geese happy or prebaited.

If I don't go, I end up with a bucket of bait in the freezer. In fact I've just pulled a bucket of hemp out today for use tomorrow. I've got some ice cream containers full of particles that I'll leave in until the morning for the day after.

[kevtaylor]

On 20/06/2024 at 12:58, ouchthathurt said:

Why without the aniseed mate? 

The aniseed is the only bit I'm keen on, love the smell - dont use particle much at all tbh but when I have I've caught and I put that down partly to the aniseed lol 👍😎

[mrmud]

1 hour ago, kevtaylor said:

The aniseed is the only bit I'm keen on, love the smell - dont use particle much at all tbh but when I have I've caught and I put that down partly to the aniseed lol 👍😎

If I'm honest I thought I was clever buying other stuff than what got recommended as it had more seeds but there's these red pellets in there that burn to the pan and is tainting the seed with a burnt tinge so I need to get something else.

I will probably eventually try something with aniseed to compare the difference on I actually start catching.

Not sure if I've been fishing or camping lately lol

[kevtaylor]

15 hours ago, mrmud said:

If I'm honest I thought I was clever buying other stuff than what got recommended as it had more seeds but there's these red pellets in there that burn to the pan and is tainting the seed with a burnt tinge so I need to get something else.

I will probably eventually try something with aniseed to compare the difference on I actually start catching.

Not sure if I've been fishing or camping lately lol

Makes sense about the pellets.

Not a bait expert but I know my particle mix came from Hinders, I did think it was good at that time.  I've bought prepared from Kent Particles which were OK and my mate recently bought his Tigers etc from Blakes Baits.

Pellets we get from British Aqua Feeds (BAF)

[jh92]

If you do go for one with aniseed in, I recommend bucktons pigeon conditioner, smells lovely when prepped 🤙