Can bait boat really up catch rate?

[kevtaylor]

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I've fished waters where bait boats were the number one method of getting end tackle in the water, including under trees.

 

At Taverham Mills while I was bailiffing it, there was a bay on the island that from a particular swim people would frequently use a bait boat to put a bait under the overhanging trees. 

I had to go out a few times in a dinghy to recover and rescue bait boats from under the trees. Carp rarely visited the spot, it was absolutely foul  stinking silt. While fishing that swim I'd found that out by watching the area,  casting and dragging my marker float back, boat journeys and wading confirmed it. 

Most anglers using a bait boat do the same thing. Rig and bait in hopper, send out to feature, nice pile of bait around the hook.

Without a bait boat, you may think of alternative options, that 2 bait stringer, a spod or 3, a bag or mesh. That bag or mesh can also be used to give a clean drop through the willows...

Don't forget, I did used to use a bait boat, but my ethics probably bit back.

 

 

This sonar searching may give you some idea, but sonar only tells you weed, not what type. Eelgrass has holes or clear patches, that will not necessarily show up with a bait boat and sonar. Then some other weed like the dreaded blanket weed may show up clear, or as a fuzzy layer, but a layer on the lakebed may make your hookbait disappear.

 

 

 

 

All true, however sonar has shown me things that I would never have found with a marker i.e drop offs that are actually undercut, like a catfish highway on Swan Lake Bluebell.  Also my mate taking me straight to an undercut bank in the old river bed at Pitsford Res, Perch hotspot, you couldn't find that by any other means.  Sonar also shows bottom hardness, mine does anyway, I'm not saying you can rely on it soley but with a combination of manual work and tech it can be useful on occasion.

[Golden Paws]

Everything I mentioned about stealth and accuracy doesn't apply here!

[B B]

Here’s a interesting vid for the boaters and the casters can’t help to learn from it 

 

[elmoputney]

42 minutes ago, Golden Paws said:

Everything I mentioned about stealth and accuracy doesn't apply here!

Where can I get one 😳

[...]

31 minutes ago, B B said:

Here’s a interesting vid for the boaters and the casters can’t help to learn from it 

 

I remember watching this, then I think he fished it on next video ?

Edited October 1, 2023 by Highy

[elmoputney]

30 minutes ago, B B said:

Here’s a interesting vid for the boaters and the casters can’t help to learn from it 

 

I watched this a while ago it is quite interesting isn't it? 

[elmoputney]

On 05/09/2023 at 14:48, kevtaylor said:

All true, however sonar has shown me things that I would never have found with a marker i.e drop offs that are actually undercut, like a catfish highway on Swan Lake Bluebell.  Also my mate taking me straight to an undercut bank in the old river bed at Pitsford Res, Perch hotspot, you couldn't find that by any other means.  Sonar also shows bottom hardness, mine does anyway, I'm not saying you can rely on it soley but with a combination of manual work and tech it can be useful on occasion.

I meant to have a look at your raymarine while we were at the social. I wanted to see how much better than a deeper it was. I've been doing a little research since trying to work out whether it's worth upgrading to a chirp +2 or other sonar such s the raymarine, I have a pro plus presently and it's alright but I can't decide how much better a chirp or other would be. 

[B B]

it was interesting…

And if I ever fall off me ladder and hit my head and went over to the dark side and then I got me a bait boat, I would be boating a lead to the island margins on a marker rod feeling for the fable Donk and making sure there’s no snags. 🤔 I always drag a lead in the near margin before I fish it just to check for obstructions.

[elmoputney]

8 minutes ago, B B said:

it was interesting…

And if I ever fall off me ladder and hit my head and went over to the dark side and then I got me a bait boat, I would be boating a lead to the island margins on a marker rod feeling for the fable Donk and making sure there’s no snags. 🤔 I always drag a lead in the near margin before I fish it just to check for obstructions.

Join the darkside, it's brilliant 😂 

[B B]

20 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

Join the darkside, it's brilliant 😂 

So what you’re saying then … is you want me to jump off me ladder tomorrow     🙄

[elmoputney]

8 minutes ago, B B said:

So what you’re saying then … is you want me to jump off me ladder tomorrow     🙄

If you had a bait boat maybe you wouldn't be considering it? 

[kevtaylor]

14 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I meant to have a look at your raymarine while we were at the social. I wanted to see how much better than a deeper it was. I've been doing a little research since trying to work out whether it's worth upgrading to a chirp +2 or other sonar such s the raymarine, I have a pro plus presently and it's alright but I can't decide how much better a chirp or other would be. 

Yeah you should have mate, if I'm over Bluebell one time pop over if that's not too far, or on the next social - hint hint, get one sorted lol 😂👍

[kevtaylor]

14 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I meant to have a look at your raymarine while we were at the social. I wanted to see how much better than a deeper it was. I've been doing a little research since trying to work out whether it's worth upgrading to a chirp +2 or other sonar such s the raymarine, I have a pro plus presently and it's alright but I can't decide how much better a chirp or other would be. 

Have a search on youtube, Kevin Ellis, Leigh Stewart-Day you might find one of Kevs videos where he meets Leigh on the bank and there is a demo of the ND2 with Raymarine thats pretty epic, I bought mine after watching that from Leigh.

If you cant find it let me know I'll have a look and share the link 👍

[elmoputney]

22 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

Yeah you should have mate, if I'm over Bluebell one time pop over if that's not too far, or on the next social - hint hint, get one sorted lol 😂👍

Talks have begun for another one possibly at linear 😲

 

22 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

Have a search on youtube, Kevin Ellis, Leigh Stewart-Day you might find one of Kevs videos where he meets Leigh on the bank and there is a demo of the ND2 with Raymarine thats pretty epic, I bought mine after watching that from Leigh.

If you cant find it let me know I'll have a look and share the link 👍

I had a look at that one and a few others the raymarine does look good, can't help feeling that I would be better off upgrading the boat to get one rather than fitting one to the actor plus. A deeper chirp is an easier fix for the actor plus and could still be used if the boat stopped working. But I still can't decide if it is a load better than the pro plus 😂

[salokcinnodrog]

On 01/10/2023 at 20:05, B B said:

Here’s a interesting vid for the boaters and the casters can’t help to learn from it 

 

Lots of trees have roots like that on lakes, willows are especially bad. It was roots growing out like that that caused a number of snag-ups on fish that I had to rescue at Taverham.

I removed a number of roots growing out into the lake at Bromeswell, within a few months they've regrown.

 

I wonder how much bloodworm is actually in that silt?

Might actually be a good place to put a bait!

I must admit I don't think that bait boat sonar would show those things up, the drained lake pics are far better

I did have a CD with pics on when Brackens Pool at Nazeing was drained. Some massive gravel bars and plateaus, rising 15-20 feet from the lakebed in one swim.

 

To be honest, you aren't even going to find them all out with a marker and float

[kevtaylor]

1 hour ago, elmoputney said:

Talks have begun for another one possibly at linear 😲

 

I had a look at that one and a few others the raymarine does look good, can't help feeling that I would be better off upgrading the boat to get one rather than fitting one to the actor plus. A deeper chirp is an easier fix for the actor plus and could still be used if the boat stopped working. But I still can't decide if it is a load better than the pro plus 😂

The deeper looks more than good enough to me and can use casting.  We took my mates on Graffam Res Perching, worked OK but not enough battery life 👍

[kevtaylor]

4 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Lots of trees have roots like that on lakes, willows are especially bad. It was roots growing out like that that caused a number of snag-ups on fish that I had to rescue at Taverham.

I removed a number of roots growing out into the lake at Bromeswell, within a few months they've regrown.

 

I wonder how much bloodworm is actually in that silt?

Might actually be a good place to put a bait!

I must admit I don't think that bait boat sonar would show those things up, the drained lake pics are far better

I did have a CD with pics on when Brackens Pool at Nazeing was drained. Some massive gravel bars and plateaus, rising 15-20 feet from the lakebed in one swim.

 

To be honest, you aren't even going to find them all out with a marker and float

Sonar shows bottom hardness, so yes you can find silty spots that may hold bloodworm, also shows roots/branches near snags.

Useful when combined with manual checks 😎👍

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, kevtaylor said:

Sonar shows bottom hardness, so yes you can find silty spots that may hold bloodworm, also shows roots/branches near snags.

Useful when combined with manual checks 😎👍

You can definately get a rough picture of what's going on on the lake bed, even from the Deeper plus, this spot after a few casts I decided was a little silty but still quite firm, I haven't rechecked it recently but I've left a good bit of bait on it since and I suspect the top layer will now be a much brighter colour where its been cleaned off, 

[elmoputney]

This is the spot right under the tree at Ashmire, as you can see its quite firm and clean, ideal to present a bottom bait on tbh, a bit of pre baiting and again that would be glowing golden. I would and did just drop a rig on that, this one was the result 👍

[kevtaylor]

Raymarine - showing fish over a fairly hard bottom with the red (hard) area being towards the top of the bottom if that makes sense 😂

looking to the left of this raised feature the red is right at the top and has a thin crust - this is rock hard ground.

Will take more pics when I'm out next - showing weed etc, might already have some - will update this as I find/take more images 👍

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by kevtaylor

[salokcinnodrog]

I wonder if those of us don't use bait boats for whatever reason 'develop' or use other skills?

I learnt to get very tight casting to my marker float, the cast wasn't good enough unless I splashed the float with my lead, and I rarely clipped up back then. 

3 hours ago, elmoputney said:

This is the spot right under the tree at Ashmire, as you can see its quite firm and clean, ideal to present a bottom bait on tbh, a bit of pre baiting and again that would be glowing golden.

At Taverham, one 'identified' gravel spot under the corner of the island used to actually be quite silty, but regularly feeding bait got it lovely and clear, down to 'bedrock' gravel with no silt on top as the fish fed on it.

To start with you'd get a donk through the silt onto the gravel, and as it got clearer you would get less pull back on the marker lead, and get that real billiard ball bounce.

After a few weeks of pressure it switched off until the silt came back.

 

4 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

Useful when combined with manual checks 😎👍

I did have that advantage of using a boat usually every week or so as I did regularly go out for the occasional overcast lead or spod in a tree, and a couple of hot summers between 1991 and 1994 saw shallow gravel bars reach the surface as the water level dropped. 

[framey]

2 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

Raymarine - showing fish over a fairly hard bottom with the red (hard) area being towards the top of the bottom if that makes sense 😂

looking to the left of this raised feature the red is right at the top and has a thin crust - this is rock hard ground.

Will take more pics when I'm out next - showing weed etc, might already have some - will update this as I find/take more images 👍

 

Have a look at active target lol

[kevtaylor]

3 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I wonder if those of us don't use bait boats for whatever reason 'develop' or use other skills?

I learnt to get very tight casting to my marker float, the cast wasn't good enough unless I splashed the float with my lead, and I rarely clipped up back then. 

At Taverham, one 'identified' gravel spot under the corner of the island used to actually be quite silty, but regularly feeding bait got it lovely and clear, down to 'bedrock' gravel with no silt on top as the fish fed on it.

To start with you'd get a donk through the silt onto the gravel, and as it got clearer you would get less pull back on the marker lead, and get that real billiard ball bounce.

After a few weeks of pressure it switched off until the silt came back.

 

I did have that advantage of using a boat usually every week or so as I did regularly go out for the occasional overcast lead or spod in a tree, and a couple of hot summers between 1991 and 1994 saw shallow gravel bars reach the surface as the water level dropped. 

Do you think that because I've recently bought a baitboat with excellent sonar that somehow you're better at casting and feature finding than me?

I'm as good as I've ever been in that regard yet now I have extra info available if I want it.

The question is can they catch you more fish and the answer is a firm YES, there was no casting to the spot I caught from at Ashmire so it's a bonus fish, could have been more as I lost a few, and it shows stuff manual casting can never show. I.e undercut drop offs, fish, branches, sunken boats etc  and the extra range, extra stealth, ability to go under overhangs.....

[framey]

[kevtaylor]

8 minutes ago, framey said:

Have a look at active target lol

Used it on the big ressies for pike, perch and zander when I go out with a pro, it's an eye opener!  I actually prefer blind casting on my predator days as you waste so long targeting a single fish who isn't interested and turns away in the end.  I think he would probably agree, however the fact that he knows exactly where the wrecks are and goes straight to them is an obvious edge.