Supermarket type liquids

[elmoputney]

On 22/02/2025 at 09:33, Old_Skool_Carper said:

meet an angler the other week who was moaning about his £13, 115ml kordaRipOFF goo lol so gave him my recipe ....was gonna write up a new post, did a search and this thread came up...

yeah @Pete Springate's Guns ya post is bang on what i use but i add 1 more ingredient which is molasses.

Vecon - Fish Sauce - Molasses, all in equal measures, told the said angler ya can buy Squid Brand Fish Sauce 725ml...for £2.50 from sainsburys you simply adjust the consistency using the Fish Sauce, told him ya can make a liter for chump change! 

AND most of all WORKS MUCH BETTER THAN ANY ripoff BAIT-TackleBARRON c r a p!

case in point, a mate that took me babel fishing last year, he raved about his 'sticky' glug!

Hmm...he BLANKED all morning next to me, while my CHEAPO secretSauce had the rod bend over every hour with some lovely barbel!

Garlic granules and chilli flakes might also be a good addition. Also can you replace vecon with Aldi rip off marmite? Might give it a try nice one. 

[framey]

2 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Garlic granules and chilli flakes might also be a good addition. Also can you replace vecon with Aldi rip off marmite? Might give it a try nice one. 

Any will work.

if fish are like humans 

some may hate it 🫣🫣😜

 

Edited February 23 by framey

[jh92]

Lidls cream liquor and condensed milk are two that I use 👍 also used evaporated milk in the past 👍

 

[Old_Skool_Carper]

20 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Garlic granules and chilli flakes might also be a good addition. Also can you replace vecon with Aldi rip off marmite? Might give it a try nice one. 

I always buy a few jars of vecon when its on offer, only have 2 jars now remaining in the fringe...

have used Aldi's Grandessa Mighty Yeast, when H&B ran out of vecon, it worked however can't really comment as a comparison, cos it was only for a couple of months, i'm sure it would be just as good!  

one thing i'm certain off, homemade will ALWAYS out Fish win 👍...over fishing-shop bought c r a p!👎

[elmoputney]

28 minutes ago, Old_Skool_Carper said:

I always buy a few jars of vecon when its on offer, only have 2 jars now remaining in the fringe...

have used Aldi's Grandessa Mighty Yeast, when H&B ran out of vecon, it worked however can't really comment as a comparison, cos it was only for a couple of months, i'm sure it would be just as good!  

one thing i'm certain off, homemade will ALWAYS out Fish win 👍...over fishing-shop bought c r a p!👎

That's the one we had in the cupboard 👍39.4% protein that would work for me. I will give it a whirl 

[Old_Skool_Carper]

1 hour ago, elmoputney said:

That's the one we had in the cupboard 👍39.4% protein that would work for me. I will give it a whirl 

i've used vecon for donkeys and always thought it was about the protein (58%), but in recent years i don't believe the HNV theory anymore, IMO i'm sure its the yeast the carp can detect and are attracted to...the Grandessa Mighty Yeast, has an Yeast Extract of (88%) so for this new season will substitute the vecon for 'Grandessa Mighty Yeast' and will give it a whole season and report back results🤞

[elmoputney]

I've just inherited our old food blender I'm going to get creative with some liquid blends this year I think. 

[salokcinnodrog]

On 24/02/2025 at 13:18, Old_Skool_Carper said:

i've used vecon for donkeys and always thought it was about the protein (58%), but in recent years i don't believe the HNV theory anymore, IMO i'm sure its the yeast the carp can detect and are attracted to...the Grandessa Mighty Yeast, has an Yeast Extract of (88%) so for this new season will substitute the vecon for 'Grandessa Mighty Yeast' and will give it a whole season and report back results🤞

Yeast is one of the few non meat or fish sources with all of the required essential amino acids.

It is also easily digested, where unless processed, meat or fish sources aren't. In theory beef is the best protein source for carp, but due to lack of enzymes it is indigestible to them.

Liquid yeast has long been one of my preferred bait soaks for boilies.

[elmoputney]

11 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Yeast is one of the few non meat or fish sources with all of the required essential amino acids.

It is also easily digested, where unless processed, meat or fish sources aren't. In theory beef is the best protein source for carp, but due to lack of enzymes it is indigestible to them.

Liquid yeast has long been one of my preferred bait soaks for boilies.

Have you ever tried adding brewers yeast powders to liquid blends? 

Would it make it an active liquid that was likely to explode in sealed containers? 

[salokcinnodrog]

15 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

Have you ever tried adding brewers yeast powders to liquid blends? 

Would it make it an active liquid that was likely to explode in sealed containers? 

I've never added brewers yeast to liquids. In theory adding yeast could make it explode as it ferments and creates alcohol and Carbon dioxide, I've heard a few people have had exploding bottles of ales.

[Carpbell3]

Plenty to chose from in the shops, I've no idea what a emulsion is but that's what you need to make when using liquid attraction in water, John Baker goes into detail.

Some of the Asian shops near me have liquids I have never seen before fruits, meat, fish, nuts, seeds everything.

[elmoputney]

28 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I've never added brewers yeast to liquids. In theory adding yeast could make it explode as it ferments and creates alcohol and Carbon dioxide, I've heard a few people have had exploding bottles of ales.

I just wondered if it would make it one of those liquids that needed gassing like active CSL. Probably not the best for someone who can be absent minded lol 

[salokcinnodrog]

9 hours ago, Carpbell3 said:

Plenty to chose from in the shops, I've no idea what a emulsion is but that's what you need to make when using liquid attraction in water, John Baker goes into detail.

Some of the Asian shops near me have liquids I have never seen before fruits, meat, fish, nuts, seeds everything.

Basically an emulsion is a mix of oil and water, as in emulsion paint,  which is just dye, water and a type of oil. Shaken or stirred, then painted on.

In water, using the emulsion to create dispersal, so the oil and other water based ingredients to spread into the water column and current. In theory, oils normally float, but on solids that takes time to happen as they have to break free and even oils have different densities.

 

[salokcinnodrog]

On 24/02/2025 at 13:18, Old_Skool_Carper said:

i've used vecon for donkeys and always thought it was about the protein (58%), but in recent years i don't believe the HNV theory anymore, IMO i'm sure its the yeast the carp can detect and are attracted to...the Grandessa Mighty Yeast, has an Yeast Extract of (88%) so for this new season will substitute the vecon for 'Grandessa Mighty Yeast' and will give it a whole season and report back results🤞

When Fred Wilton came up with 'The HNV Theory' back in the 1970's I don't think that he was wrong, but I do think that it has been unintentionally misused, misquoted and misinformed. 

I think from memory he reckoned that after watching rabbits in Australia chew wooden posts to get an additional mineral that was missing from their food, carp would search out foods that provided all the nutrients they required. His answer was to come up with a milk protein boilie or paste providing everything nutritionally they needed. Skinning the paste made it small fish proof. This is where it gets difficult; milk protein is not the easiest protein to digest requiring a specific enzyme, lactase. 

If there is no or limited amount of lactase, the milk boilie can't be digested, filling the carp up until it is excreted. This brings up that milk protein baits don't need massive amounts of freebies. 

Milk protein baits were effective, especially so when an additive called Bengers was added. Bengers contained amylase, trypsin and lactase, helping with the digestion of the baits. The Bengers meant that larger quantities could be used.

Then we have the 'revolution', from a guy named Hutchy...

He disagreed with Fred Wilton, not over the theory, but on the best source of protein; he believed that the best protein source was fishmeal.

We move on in time, where the only non meat best protein source with easily digestible and fully utilisable proteins is yeast. Now I'm sure Mainline have got that down to a T, their baits may not be high protein, but everything is useable, from the roughage, the protein and carbohydrates. 

[Old_Skool_Carper]

On 05/03/2025 at 03:21, salokcinnodrog said:

When Fred Wilton came up with 'The HNV Theory' back in the 1970's I don't think that he was wrong, but I do think that it has been unintentionally misused, misquoted and misinformed. 

I think from memory he reckoned that after watching rabbits in Australia chew wooden posts to get an additional mineral that was missing from their food, carp would search out foods that provided all the nutrients they required. His answer was to come up with a milk protein boilie or paste providing everything nutritionally they needed. Skinning the paste made it small fish proof. This is where it gets difficult; milk protein is not the easiest protein to digest requiring a specific enzyme, lactase. 

If there is no or limited amount of lactase, the milk boilie can't be digested, filling the carp up until it is excreted. This brings up that milk protein baits don't need massive amounts of freebies. 

Milk protein baits were effective, especially so when an additive called Bengers was added. Bengers contained amylase, trypsin and lactase, helping with the digestion of the baits. The Bengers meant that larger quantities could be used.

Then we have the 'revolution', from a guy named Hutchy...

He disagreed with Fred Wilton, not over the theory, but on the best source of protein; he believed that the best protein source was fishmeal.

We move on in time, where the only non meat best protein source with easily digestible and fully utilisable proteins is yeast. Now I'm sure Mainline have got that down to a T, their baits may not be high protein, but everything is useable, from the roughage, the protein and carbohydrates. 

interesting post!

where can i buy a tin of this, cheers!

my view is & in agreement what rod hutchinson wrote all those years ago in:  The carp strikes back...with 1 addition below*

ie what i bloded in ya post "was missing from their food, carp would search out foods that provided all the nutrients they required"

back then when most carpers made home-baits....most lakes get hammered with the going bait, early 80's semo-soya-flour sweeter flavor....once results started to flatter, someone tries protein AND cleans up! all get on to protein...at some point results decline, fish meal come alone, then meat, liver, then tigers, then hemp etc, etc ...a constant ongoing cycle...

case in point, do ya remember the story about andy little on savay....he was spending a FORTUNE on protein, his results were TOP NOTCH ...however he couldn't afford the expense with the amount of protein he was paying out for, so he decided to do a test and substitute the milk-protein for  semo-soya-flour mix ONLY using the same flavor as in the successful milk-protein, to his amazement he got the same successful results!

 

* I believe carp have *ADDICTIONS* just like us lol

who can resit eating a bag of cheddar cheese & onion crisps even knowing its c r a p junk-food?

...i open a 150G bag only want to eat a few BUT...end up scoffing the lot down in 1 sitting!

its simply an addiction to those TASTY crisps even though you can eat bags AND still not feel full!

If you look at the last 25 years the BIG NAMED brand commercial carp boilies sold, NONE are HNV...YET they WORK quite well don't they?

I reckon the recipe guys behind the BIG brand commercial carp boilies are making bait based on the above*...of course imo.

[salokcinnodrog]

13 hours ago, Old_Skool_Carper said:

If you look at the last 25 years the BIG NAMED brand commercial carp boilies sold, NONE are HNV...YET they WORK quite well don't they?

I think the term, or initials, HNV are a misnomer. I think that the correct term should be balanced baits, as the best baits were a mix of protein, roughage, vitamins and minerals, fats and carbohydrates.

Pick up on Premier baits and the 'fishmeal' revolution, Big Fish Mix from Nutrabaits, which were a mix of fishmeal, milk products and birdfoods, not just fishmeal. The birdfoods provided the vitamins and minerals and the fishmeal the protein. The low level of milk provided another protein source.

Go to Trigga, various seafood oceanic meals, shrimp, krill, fishmeal, a birdfood and a milk protein, again balanced.

Various Nash baits were the same.

I did have Andy Little's original recipe for Savay, can't remember which book it is in, I think Tim Paisley's Big Carp, there was from memory another protein source, so dropping the expensive Casein didn't do much harm. 

Don't forget that baits can complement each other, a high protein bait can be balanced by a high roughage bait, and that the first requirement is for energy, not protein. Protein may be for health and growth, but if it is being used to provide energy first it is effectively wasted, so a fat/carbohydrate bait will work with a protein. Add to that the binder is often carbohydrate, be it semolina or wheat gluten, lowering the protein content.

[Old_Skool_Carper]

On 07/03/2025 at 04:52, salokcinnodrog said:

I think the term, or initials, HNV are a misnomer. I think that the correct term should be balanced baits, as the best baits were a mix of protein, roughage, vitamins and minerals, fats and carbohydrates...................

I started carping in 79' back then both KM & RH books, plus the monthly fishing mag articles both hammered the High Nutritional Value theory as the way forward...it wasn't until I read a fascinating article mid-80's in BIG FISH Mag by Clive Dietrich (richworth baits, i still have that mag in the loft!) about low to mid-protein baits, brilliant piece, i kept that articles theme in my mind over the years... what i bolded above is SPOT on (similar views as Clive's article) in regards to how i make baits today

Edited 12 hours ago by Old_Skool_Carper