Rolling my own baits

[Lumeymorris]

Hope everyone's well during this though time!!

So I've been thinking about rolling my own baits partly due to boredom and having to much time on my hands as I wanted to do something fishing related and sorting the gear out is like torture being no set date on when we can get back on the bank I thought it would make sense to use the time to learn something new! But as I say something I've not done before so thought I'll take the easy option and use a established bait companies base mix. And with there being no set date on when we can fish and limited freezer space I thought I'll start out with pop ups but after watching a few videos I've now become slightly lost as it seems that if you make cork ball pop ups then the process is just like making boilies which seems a pretty straight forward process if using a dedicated base mix. But with the pop ups seems you need flavours/liquids, colour/dye, and a dedicated pop up mix which I understand but for example say the flavour is dark in colour (red) how would I get it to go yellow with out it going orange? Or isit a case of keep adding dye untill you get the colour your after?? And can you put to much dye in?? 

[emmcee]

I've never had a designated coloured pop up mix change colour due to flavouring/ liquid additives etc. Nor has a normal base mix changed colour when doing cork balls. Don't forget you'll only be using a couple of mil of flavour in your mix so it will be ok. 

[elmoputney]

British aqua feeds do a designated colour pop up mix and wafter mix too, 

I should think they are the same mix dna bait use for there's 

[elmoputney]

https://britishaquafeeds.com/product-category/bulk-basemixes-pop-up-mixes/

[yonny]

I would always make cork ball pop ups over those made with a dedicated pop up mix. The buoyancy cannot be matched imo. 

[salokcinnodrog]

4 hours ago, Lumeymorris said:

Hope everyone's well during this though time!!

So I've been thinking about rolling my own baits partly due to boredom and having to much time on my hands as I wanted to do something fishing related and sorting the gear out is like torture being no set date on when we can get back on the bank I thought it would make sense to use the time to learn something new! But as I say something I've not done before so thought I'll take the easy option and use a established bait companies base mix. And with there being no set date on when we can fish and limited freezer space I thought I'll start out with pop ups but after watching a few videos I've now become slightly lost as it seems that if you make cork ball pop ups then the process is just like making boilies which seems a pretty straight forward process if using a dedicated base mix. But with the pop ups seems you need flavours/liquids, colour/dye, and a dedicated pop up mix which I understand but for example say the flavour is dark in colour (red) how would I get it to go yellow with out it going orange? Or isit a case of keep adding dye untill you get the colour your after?? And can you put to much dye in?? 

I prefer a pop-up mix over cork ball pop-ups. I have too often reeled in a plain cork where it was pierced and water got under the base mix layer. 

You may well have to sieve out the larger bits in the base mix so that it rolls smoothly.

That is one reason I always tie on my pop-ups, a subject in itself.

 

If you are using high attract 'individual' pop-ups, then you can use whatever flavour combinations you fancy, the amount for 6 eggs worth of base mix, added to 1egg.

If you want your pop-up the same level as your main bait, then you will have to lower the level to the correct ratio.

So for example in 6 eggs the recommended flavour level is 6ml of flavour, then only add 1ml.

(There is a useful thread here on my pop-ups:

 

If the pop-up mix is red, then you will not ever get a yellow bait, so if you want a yellow bait, get a pale yellow or white pop-up mix. Same if you want any other colour, with a pale base mix you can add dye. I found for a 1egg mix that 1 ampoule of Dr. Oetker food dye is the right amount.

[Guest StinkyMink]

I've tried making bait in the past and, as an ex-chef, I should be more into it

But I just can't face all the kit. The trouble with hand rolling is that baits go everywhere BUT where you are trying to catapult them!

The other thing is that flavours are SO expensive and you end up with a big bottle of it for life as you are only using a ml or two out of a giant 100ml bottle

I fish a hard lake and don't want to be experimenting and guess work, so if I rolled anything at all it would be a proven, properly tested and designed by bait experts. 

But simply making odd shaped hookbaits and feeding paste and uneven shaped boilies close in by hand is a nice edge all the same

[emmcee]

42 minutes ago, StinkyMink said:

I've tried making bait in the past and, as an ex-chef, I should be more into it

But I just can't face all the kit. The trouble with hand rolling is that baits go everywhere BUT where you are trying to catapult them!

The other thing is that flavours are SO expensive and you end up with a big bottle of it for life as you are only using a ml or two out of a giant 100ml bottle

I fish a hard lake and don't want to be experimenting and guess work, so if I rolled anything at all it would be a proven, properly tested and designed by bait experts. 

But simply making odd shaped hookbaits and feeding paste and uneven shaped boilies close in by hand is a nice edge all the same

it certainly will workout expensive if all you use is 1 or 2ml out of a 100ml bottle. though this will only be used in a 6egg mix say, so roughly 1kg of rolled bait. if all you use is 1kg of bait in a season then yes a waste of money  you're doing well if thats all you use. though 6-10 quid for 50 6egg mixes at 2ml is cheap as chips if you ask me. 

and is your lake hard because you struggle to catch or because most struggle to catch on there? whats your lake called, someone on here may have fished there and could maybe help you out. 

[Guest StinkyMink]

10 minutes ago, emmcee said:

it certainly will workout expensive if all you use is 1 or 2ml out of a 100ml bottle. though this will only be used in a 6egg mix say, so roughly 1kg of rolled bait. if all you use is 1kg of bait in a season then yes a waste of money  you're doing well if thats all you use. though 6-10 quid for 50 6egg mixes at 2ml is cheap as chips if you ask me. 

and is your lake hard because you struggle to catch or because most struggle to catch on there? whats your lake called, someone on here may have fished there and could maybe help you out. 

It's just tough and moody mate. Everybody struggles to catch on there and they lose members every year as they struggle.

I've actually done ok, with nearly a carp per session (they were long sessions mind).

It's not a lake that responds to heavy baiting as the carp are very crafty and pressured in a very old mature and rich lake, and blessed with abundant natural food. They know what a big pile of boilies means and they will run a mile. You can't use particle, groundbait and spod on there as it is infested with roach and you will simply get pike moving over your spot if you try all that. 

It's all about nicking a bite with a small amount of high quality boilie. And to be honest I don't think I could make anything as good as my DT and RG (it works on there, so why muck about on a ballbreaker venue when you have found something that works)?

I love the idea of making bait, its pure fun (but much harder work than people realise).

If I had money for all the kit (and I mean a proper Hobart mixer as well) I would happily make my own using DT and RG basemixes and tweaking them about just a bit, but the initial outlay isn't worth it when I may as well just buy the odd five kilo bulk freezerbait bag every now and again

Fair play to you guys trying it, and have fun and enjoy your captures. I thought about it for years and I'm happier on a hard lake using something that has been thorughly designed and tested so I can just get on with doing the hard bank hours and trying to learn a very tricky venue's little nuances.

 

Edited: typos

Edited April 27, 2020 by StinkyMink

[emmcee]

not being picky but just maybe because your chosen baits have a proven track record on there, maybe something different might give you more of an edge. don't get me wrong if the fish see it all the time and are confident on it then fair enough, but if thats all that goes in they might also know it as danger.  just thinking outside the box like. i know i always try being different to the other anglers on the syndicates that i fish

[Guest StinkyMink]

32 minutes ago, emmcee said:

not being picky but just maybe because your chosen baits have a proven track record on there, maybe something different might give you more of an edge. don't get me wrong if the fish see it all the time and are confident on it then fair enough, but if thats all that goes in they might also know it as danger.  just thinking outside the box like. i know i always try being different to the other anglers on the syndicates that i fish

Nobody else is using the baits I'm on on that particular lake mate, and nobody will know what I'm on, on there like, as I throw them curve balls.

I'm quite open about rigs and stuff but as for which particular bait I am on - no way Jose

I don't mind vaguely suggesting to you guys what I'm on as you have no idea who I am and where I fish. All I tell you anyway is which companies I use, not the particular bait

As for ''seeing it all the time'', I am not sure 80 baits a month that will be destroyed by roach within 12 hours counts as some sort of mass baiting!

Anyway as I said mate I can't afford the outlay of all the rolling tables, flavours, compressor things, only to end up back at square one using hardly any bait anyway.

I doon't believe in super duper hi-nu-val and ultra high protein mixes either, been there before and they didn't set the World alight in any way. I've been at it for a long time mate, and readymades have improved considerably. Good ones are out there but I'm not revealing something that too me vast expense and years of chopping and changing to discover. Besides I have sneaky alternative baits anyway.

Cheers for the chat.

Edited April 27, 2020 by StinkyMink

[emmcee]

Well sounds like you've been there, done it and got the t-shirt, fair play. 

Your experience will help us all I'm sure 👍

[Guest StinkyMink]

Thanks mate that's very polite

I've got a few tips up my sleeve and happy to hear others as well

The longer you get in the tooth, though, you learn to make small refinements and stick to things rather than muck about

 

I'm on DT and RG, but nobody would ever guess what combination of baits and liquids I use, how I prep the baits, and what alternatives I use.

You mentioned earlier about trying to be different - I'm all about that mate, there is a whole World of tricks out there with bait and what you put on it, and which different baits complment each other

I would never use a single boilie in the swim. Mixing it up is a huge edge

An old favourite was mixing Sticky Bloodworm with Mainline Activ 8 - but Sticky stopped doing Bloodworm freezerbait and I don't do shelf

Another good one was Poloni with the Key

And the Krill with Cell

I'm actually on three baits at the moment, always together in the same swim

[emmcee]

1 hour ago, StinkyMink said:

Thanks mate that's very polite

I've got a few tips up my sleeve and happy to hear others as well

The longer you get in the tooth, though, you learn to make small refinements and stick to things rather than muck about

Agree totally.  People that chop and change are in my opinion not confident in their approach and confidence is key. You turn up at your chosen lake already doomed and chances are you won't catch. 

[Lumeymorris]

So just an idea can I pre soak my corkballs in flavour liquid before I add paste?? Does this improve attraction?? Would it have to be a thinner liquid to penetrate through the paste??

[emmcee]

1 hour ago, StinkyMink said:

I'm on DT and RG, but nobody would ever guess what combination of baits and liquids I use, how I prep the baits, and what alternatives I use.

You mentioned earlier about trying to be different - I'm all about that mate, there is a whole World of tricks out there with bait and what you put on it, and which different baits complment each other

I would never use a single boilie in the swim. Mixing it up is a huge edge

An old favourite was mixing Sticky Bloodworm with Mainline Activ 8 - but Sticky stopped doing Bloodworm freezerbait and I don't do shelf

Another good one was Poloni with the Key

And the Krill with Cell

I'm actually on three baits at the moment, always together in the same swim

I've used some DT products in the past when I've rolled my own bait. Milk B , green beast and sweet damson flavours was what I used in conjunction with a mates base mix.  

As for you combining baits, I've been going to the same bait company for 20yrs now and they sell bags of randoms. A mixture of all the over rolled baits  that were rolled and mixed together with all different sizes and combinations of base mixes/ flavours etc. They are cheap as chips and work a dream, no doubt confusing the carp with the different tastes, scents, sizes and textures etc. 

Though i do primarily stick to one bait and have done for the past 10,12 or 14yrs now. Been that long I've forgotten.  But it's what I'm confident in and due to the amounts I've been known to use im convinced the fish see it as part of their diet .

[emmcee]

8 minutes ago, Lumeymorris said:

So just an idea can I pre soak my corkballs in flavour liquid before I add paste?? Does this improve attraction?? Would it have to be a thinner liquid to penetrate through the paste??

The only thing I soak my cork balls in is egg white. It will help the paste stick to the cork ball. Your paste will need to have the right level of egg albumin in to harden the bait up. Once dried for 4 or 5 days roughly after you've boiled them then you can add  flavours, dips etc of your choice. That's what I do anyway when I've made them and it's always worked. I've got a pot in my garage that well over 10yrs old and still going strong. 

Edited April 27, 2020 by emmcee

[Guest StinkyMink]

4 hours ago, emmcee said:

The only thing I soak my cork balls in is egg white. It will help the paste stick to the cork ball. Your paste will need to have the right level of egg albumin in to harden the bait up. Once dried for 4 or 5 days roughly after you've boiled them then you can add  flavours, dips etc of your choice. That's what I do anyway when I've made them and it's always worked. I've got a pot in my garage that well over 10yrs old and still going strong. 

That's clever mate. Like it. Using egg white as a glue!

 

4 hours ago, Lumeymorris said:

So just an idea can I pre soak my corkballs in flavour liquid before I add paste?? Does this improve attraction?? Would it have to be a thinner liquid to penetrate through the paste??

Cork balls have caught loads of fish both in unflavoured and flavoured - they are pale and visual, natural looking, and look like tigers

I would just douse them, and keep dousing them soaking for months in a good quality bait spray

there's always a risk of overflavouring, once the skin breaks down a flood of neat flavour will be coming out of the cork and neat flavour is very concentrated and can easily deter carp

 

 

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, StinkyMink said:

That's clever mate. Like it. Using egg white as a glue

 

 

Didn't Punks use it to keep the Mohicans at full mast? 

[finchey]

59 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

Didn't Punks use it to keep the Mohicans at full mast? 

That is correct my friend, I remember it well from my miss spent youth as a punk.😂😂 But they weren't half good times.😁👍

[yonny]

14 hours ago, emmcee said:

I soak my cork balls in is egg white. It will help the paste stick to the cork ball.

This^^^^^^

[framey]

14 hours ago, Lumeymorris said:

So just an idea can I pre soak my corkballs in flavour liquid before I add paste?? Does this improve attraction?? Would it have to be a thinner liquid to penetrate through the paste??

Google a bait makers diary on YouTube this month mark Bryant from baitworks says how to make cork ball pop ups albeit using a kit from them.terry Hearn also has a you tube video from a few years ago saying how to do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYNK2HAmjoI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjyCtXRTK7I

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by framey

[elmoputney]

9 hours ago, finchey said:

That is correct my friend, I remember it well from my miss spent youth as a punk.😂😂 But they weren't half good times.😁👍

I bet wouldn't have minded being a punk, bit before my time though 😉

I do like some of the music though, still sounds good today 

[hutch]

You've probably already had the answer you need in the above posts.  But in answer to your question it can dull the colour slightly if your using for example black liquid with a light coloured mix but not enough to effect the finished bait.  I pick a colour/colours you want to make and buy the ready done coloured mix, if you need to get a dye to make a pink for example make sure its non soluble or it will just wash out (not all the peddled ones are non soluble).  With the better dyes you need very little to get the colour you want.

Im not a fan of cork ball pop ups but thats just because im never happy with my finished product, i use pop up mix.

If your going to make your own i recommend nipping down the supermarket, visit the baking aisle and buy some sachets of whole egg white powder, one sachet per 100g of pop up mix used it just gives a nice hardened skin to the outside of the finished bait.

[hutch]

Forgot to add in the answer to the OP question the yellow ones contain a dark liquid