Topping up at first light?

[Golden Paws]

When fishing overnighters, I never sleep very well and am usually rousing before first light, even around the shortest day. To capitalise on that, I used to recheck my rigs and put on fresh bait and spod over the top so that the fish should find the new bait. I also reckoned that if I didn't have a bite during the night, it was probably because I had been 'done' and the fish had already eaten the loose feed! Been doing that for a few years and thought it was my 'little edge', although I can't seem to recall any spectacular hits to back that up. Recently someone commented in an article that 'those who bait up at dawn ought to have their dangly bits removed!' That made me think a bit.

So, what is the concensus, am I ruining it for myself (and others fishing the lake) or is it worth doing? Obviously if I did start catching first thing, I would probably add more bait after each fish to hold them.

[Pete Springate's Guns]

16 minutes ago, Golden Paws said:

When fishing overnighters, I never sleep very well and am usually rousing before first light, even around the shortest day. To capitalise on that, I used to recheck my rigs and put on fresh bait and spod over the top so that the fish should find the new bait. I also reckoned that if I didn't have a bite during the night, it was probably because I had been 'done' and the fish had already eaten the loose feed! Been doing that for a few years and thought it was my 'little edge', although I can't seem to recall any spectacular hits to back that up. Recently someone commented in an article that 'those who bait up at dawn ought to have their dangly bits removed!' That made me think a bit.

So, what is the concensus, am I ruining it for myself (and others fishing the lake) or is it worth doing? Obviously if I did start catching first thing, I would probably add more bait after each fish to hold them.

I’m probably in the ‘remove their dangly bits brigade’! This has been reinforced this morning when a guy arrived opposite at first light and proceeded to spod for 2 hours.....Its ok for him, he’s down for another 3 nights, he does this every week in the same swim, usually midweek hence I was somewhat surprised and disapointed to see him today. Complete lack of respect for others; the lake is hard, pressured and swims are tight. Cock.

 

[dayvid]

I wont bait up over what I have baited ,unless I have caught or atleast 24 hours have passed, works for me 

[B.C.]

1 hour ago, Golden Paws said:

When fishing overnighters,

Short sessions = less bait imo…….. Even better if you can put some in a day or two before (without encroaching on anyone else)  and flick a single or stringer out on the spot when you do your overnighter.... As @Pete Springate's Guns mentioned, the guy piling it in opposite him is going to sit on that for a few days. (bit out of order considering by 4/5pm on a Sunday, most anglers will be packing up, so he could have waited til then)...

Over nighters, for me (I don't do that many), consist of about 10-12 baits flicked around my rig, looking for a bite at a time with as least disturbance as possible and a quick set up time, especially as the light is drawing in now and I don't want to be waiting for my swim to settle down after a barrage of baiting as the twilight witching hour approaches...… Nice little trap set. If I get anything, it's an easy re-set, flick it back out with a few more baits over the top...……. I've been baiting a couple of waters this year, but actual fishing has been done over very little bait, just to try and get a quicker pick up and a more covert set up and rods out... Steady results, but feel that I'm doing something right...… Having said that, they have seen a bit of my bait over the last 6-8 months, which definately helps.

A mate of mine does the opposite, turns up at midday, sorts his rods out and clips them up, bangs a bit of bait out.... Then says his hello's round the lake, drinking all our tea lol...… Casts out at midnight ready for a morning bite.... He does alright too.. The theory being, let a few fish come in and out of the baited areas with no lines cutting through the swim, before chucking a rig out...….. He jokingly says " get yer camra ready geezer' As he wanders back to his swim at 11pm...…. Proper annoying when you get the wake up call at 3am, I have to wind my rods in, that have been out for 8hrs, to take a pic for someone who's been fishing for a couple of hours...…. Doesn't always go like that, but he does alright...….☺️

[kevtaylor]

Why do you assume you've been done?

I've said this before and my views haven't changed, it seems absolute madness to me for you to get up nice and early before you're perceived bite time, only to get impatient and let doubt creep In, should I check my rigs, have I been done, is there any bait left?

Then you proceed to pull the rigs up, most likely spooking anything creeping into your area, then smashing them back out - definitely spooking any not spooked first time.  Better still I'll bait up messing it up for anyone nearby too.

Why make and check rigs that are, anti tangle, re-setting, tried and tested, spots good enough to present on, bait up carefully - then just when you need to sit on your hands and do nothing.........

You know the rest, and you said the results ain't great! 

Stick to plan A and be confident 😊

[Golden Paws]

Yes Kev, I'm being to doubt my reasoning for doing it, hence why I've started this thread. We do get 'done' far more than we realise, the underwater films sometime make me wonder how we ever catch them at all! I try to tip all the odds in my favour, good bait, sharp hook, resetting rigs (noramally combi's), fluorocarbon leader and slackish line but still get a lot of 'twitches and pulls' that I'm sure are fish mouthing and rejecting the bait. Most of my fishing in the warmer months is based around spodding fairly large quantities of hemp/mixed seeds/sweetcorn and fishing either a boilie or fake corn over the top. I can see that creating that competitive feeding zone in a small area can lead to that rather than using a throwing stick to put 100 boilies over the area of a tennis court to encourage 'browsing and moving' feeding to hopefully convert more pick up's into runs.

Most of my fishing is on a local club lake that is day fishing only that is fairly prolific and it is noticable that I can almost 'buy' a bite by regularly spodding to freshen up the area, I've even caught when spodding over the top and that includes sloppy casts that create a huge splash. I've also fished larger waters like B1 on Linear where Spodding/Spombing seems to be the norm, the classic 'OX29 fishing' as it's more commonly known.

My mine quandry is that I want to be sure that I have some bait in the swim to attract and hold the fish but also to be confident that the carp can feed in realitive peace and not spook.

So, let's say I'm fishing B1 and have had a quiet night. I've not had a bite all night and it's now an hour past dawn. Would you spod now or leave it and how much longer?

[greekskii]

I will happily bait up through the night if I need to, a bit of late night spombing really helps you get in tune with your casting!

Recasting at first light is a nono, unless its a quiet flick down the margin/being dropped in off the rod tip. A few quartered baits to clear the fish off quickly and a quietly dropped rig is no real disturbance IMO. I'd only be doing that if I think I've been done though, or it's unsafe to fish the snag whilst asleep. 

[emmcee]

22 hours ago, Pete Springate's Guns said:

I’m probably in the ‘remove their dangly bits brigade’! This has been reinforced this morning when a guy arrived opposite at first light and proceeded to spod for 2 hours.....Its ok for him, he’s down for another 3 nights, he does this every week in the same swim, usually midweek hence I was somewhat surprised and disapointed to see him today. Complete lack of respect for others; the lake is hard, pressured and swims are tight. Cock.

 

What peg you in mate? Black or white? 

[Pete Springate's Guns]

41 minutes ago, emmcee said:

What peg you in mate? Black or white? 

77 on White. Its happens regularly.

[Ginger9991]

This decision should be based on the water you are fishing, the lake should dictate what you do. I will spod regardless of the hour if i have just landed a fish, be it midnight, Dawn, 9am or whenever. Theres no way that a fish has come into my swim and ate only my hook bait, For me it would be madness not to apply some more bait, After every fish i will add 3 to 4 spods back over the top. If i hadnt had a bite, I will see on my hands until "bite time" is over.

I have also fished waters where i have woke up at dawn, Fish have already been high in the water so i have gambled and hit full zig tactics and caught well before half the lake have got out of bet.

People may get the ass about it (no one has ever said anything to me), But if i then put another fish on the bank, What can they have the ass about?

[kevtaylor]

4 hours ago, Golden Paws said:

Yes Kev, I'm being to doubt my reasoning for doing it, hence why I've started this thread. We do get 'done' far more than we realise, the underwater films sometime make me wonder how we ever catch them at all! I try to tip all the odds in my favour, good bait, sharp hook, resetting rigs (noramally combi's), fluorocarbon leader and slackish line but still get a lot of 'twitches and pulls' that I'm sure are fish mouthing and rejecting the bait. Most of my fishing in the warmer months is based around spodding fairly large quantities of hemp/mixed seeds/sweetcorn and fishing either a boilie or fake corn over the top. I can see that creating that competitive feeding zone in a small area can lead to that rather than using a throwing stick to put 100 boilies over the area of a tennis court to encourage 'browsing and moving' feeding to hopefully convert more pick up's into runs.

Most of my fishing is on a local club lake that is day fishing only that is fairly prolific and it is noticable that I can almost 'buy' a bite by regularly spodding to freshen up the area, I've even caught when spodding over the top and that includes sloppy casts that create a huge splash. I've also fished larger waters like B1 on Linear where Spodding/Spombing seems to be the norm, the classic 'OX29 fishing' as it's more commonly known.

My mine quandry is that I want to be sure that I have some bait in the swim to attract and hold the fish but also to be confident that the carp can feed in realitive peace and not spook.

So, let's say I'm fishing B1 and have had a quiet night. I've not had a bite all night and it's now an hour past dawn. Would you spod now or leave it and how much longer?

 

[emmcee]

2 hours ago, Pete Springate's Guns said:

77 on White. Its happens regularly.

Weekends on there are 10 times worse. I feel your pain. I'll have to try and get down and introduce myself when I'm free. 

[kevtaylor]

5 hours ago, Golden Paws said:

Yes Kev, I'm being to doubt my reasoning for doing it, hence why I've started this thread. We do get 'done' far more than we realise, the underwater films sometime make me wonder how we ever catch them at all! I try to tip all the odds in my favour, good bait, sharp hook, resetting rigs (noramally combi's), fluorocarbon leader and slackish line but still get a lot of 'twitches and pulls' that I'm sure are fish mouthing and rejecting the bait. Most of my fishing in the warmer months is based around spodding fairly large quantities of hemp/mixed seeds/sweetcorn and fishing either a boilie or fake corn over the top. I can see that creating that competitive feeding zone in a small area can lead to that rather than using a throwing stick to put 100 boilies over the area of a tennis court to encourage 'browsing and moving' feeding to hopefully convert more pick up's into runs.

Most of my fishing is on a local club lake that is day fishing only that is fairly prolific and it is noticable that I can almost 'buy' a bite by regularly spodding to freshen up the area, I've even caught when spodding over the top and that includes sloppy casts that create a huge splash. I've also fished larger waters like B1 on Linear where Spodding/Spombing seems to be the norm, the classic 'OX29 fishing' as it's more commonly known.

My mine quandry is that I want to be sure that I have some bait in the swim to attract and hold the fish but also to be confident that the carp can feed in realitive peace and not spook.

So, let's say I'm fishing B1 and have had a quiet night. I've not had a bite all night and it's now an hour past dawn. Would you spod now or leave it and how much longer?

Its a tough call, but I'm only re-casting around morning bite time if I feel I have been done or should have had a take because fish were on me for a significant amount of time.  If I have other rods on the spot I might not recast the done rod in case it ruins the chance for the other 2 rods.

I think the biggest issue here is stock density and how spooky the fish are generally, there are waters where it would be a no no and others where it wouldn't matter or could even be beneficial to re-bait.

You hadn't mentioned the rod knocks before and that shows that you have fish at least checking the area out and quite possibly feeding.

You say you fish short sessions and also like to put a decent amount of bait out, results not great.  On short sessions I'm fishing for a bite not a red letter day, maybe you'd do better, catch more quickly if you fished far less bait to begin with. 😉

[The Compleat Angler]

A lot depends on the venue and fish behaviour but, I never re bait, or re cast at first light, unless I’ve just had a take. Even if I’m awake first light, I don’t touch anything until around mid morning. First light can be bite time on the majority of venues, so leaving the bait and rigs that have been out all night well alone has always served me well.

In fact, on many waters I leave everything alone, sometimes for over 24 hours.

[salokcinnodrog]

On 16 September 2018 at 11:37, Golden Paws said:

When fishing overnighters, I never sleep very well and am usually rousing before first light, even around the shortest day. To capitalise on that, I used to recheck my rigs and put on fresh bait and spod over the top so that the fish should find the new bait. I also reckoned that if I didn't have a bite during the night, it was probably because I had been 'done' and the fish had already eaten the loose feed! Been doing that for a few years and thought it was my 'little edge', although I can't seem to recall any spectacular hits to back that up. Recently someone commented in an article that 'those who bait up at dawn ought to have their dangly bits removed!' That made me think a bit.

So, what is the concensus, am I ruining it for myself (and others fishing the lake) or is it worth doing? Obviously if I did start catching first thing, I would probably add more bait after each fish to hold them.

Your Dangly bits should most definitely be removed!

 

First thing in the morning is spotting time, not baiting up time😉

I have been out on a lake in a boat first thing in the morning over my baited spots, and if I didn't catch the night before, my bait is usually still there untouched. There are some occasions when I had been sussed, or a tangled rig prevented a take, but very few.

Carp and other fish cannot visit every spot in the lake that has food on it every night, and they simply can't eat it all. Add to that night time darkness takes, they cannot see the rig, so it is suck and blow ejection, not visibly avoid.

Carp do not  always feed at night on every water, I have had numbers of fish during the day. Some are night waters, but some are definitely waters where the carp will feed during the day.

If you do catch first thing, the only bait to put in is with a PVA bag or stringer, don't be spodding loads more in. Even cattying baits in can be enough to spook some fish. The splash of a lead and PVA is one splash. Cattied or throwing sticked baits is numbers of splashes, as for the spod/Spomb...

 

If I was turning up for a day session then all my baiting is nearly always done with PVA, a single chuck with a stringer or bag. It is very rare I spod in. It is extremely unfair on other anglers, disrespectful and plain ignorant. If no-one else is on the lake, maybe I will if I know the fish respond to loads of bait,  and maybe if I am baiting up for later, but most definitely not around other anglers,

Just a few first light fish: