Pop-up advice....

[smufter]

Despite accumulating countless tubs of various pop-ups over the years, I don't fish them that often. Lack of confidence I guess, as I've never had a sniff on one in the past.

I've read up/watched videos on the rigs involved, but the only thing I'm not really sure of is the amount of weight I need to use. My question is, can you use too much???

I don't like using putty, so tend to use Fox "Kwik-change" pop up weights. I find these much neater, and once on, they stay in place.
I use Gardner pop-up rig aligners, with a bait screw, and the rig to me looks nice and neat. I will test them out in a bucket before launching into the lake and this shows me they are sitting correctly. I strip my braid back just past the weight so I know that things are kicking up as they should.

But as I say, can I use too much weight? I tend to use the biggest of the kwik change pop up weights which are the equivalent I guess to the old swan shot. I just want to make sure that my rig is down on the bottom as it should be. I will vary the length of stripped braid from the weight to the hook somewhere between an inch to two, but tend to favour two inches due to the amount of leaf litter/silt in my lake. But despite the fact my rig "looks" and seems to present itself okay, (in the bucket test at least), I still lack confidence. Can anyone give me any tips or maybe point out where I might be going wrong??? Could it be the weight I am using???? Cheers m'dears.  (My "business end" looks exactly the same as the one pictured below)

 

[greekskii]

It really depends on how you want to fish said pop up. If you want it critically balanced so it slowly settles on the bottom then you need to weight it so it just sinks. 

A heavy weight will make it sink fast and pin it to the bottom. I tend to use this route when fishing hard bottoms as I think it helps hook grab the lip. If you use a heavy weighted pop up on soft bottoms then there is the potential the hook gets dragged in to muck and masked. 

Then you have the arguement of the fish. A critically balanced bait acts more natural and will waft up in the water column as fish root about. Some wise old fish have been known to flank the bottom to see which food items move and which ones don’t. Barnwell mirror and the nutsey fish are just two of them. 

[salokcinnodrog]

I must admit I have not thought of a heavy weight making the hook drop into the lip with a pop-up, possibly because I don't usually fish pop-ups as my main tactic, yet I do use it to hold the bait to the bottom. I don't often want the bait drifting around being so critically balanced that any current it moves, only just holding bottom.

 

 

My usual pop-up rig is currently a D-rig and I avoid carp taxed pop-up weights, and dive over to match anglers olivettes. There are two types; through the middle of the olivette, or held in place with a plastic sleeve. I think they are more streamlined than carp pop-up weights.

 

 

 

 

[yonny]

I use pop ups for 95% of my fishing.

3 hours ago, smufter said:

the only thing I'm not really sure of is the amount of weight I need to use. My question is, can you use too much???

Not really buddy. There are pro's and cons for over-weighting pop ups and likewise for balancing baits. I tend to lean towards a balanced approach although I'll not balance it too well - I think a weightless tethered pop up wafting around feeding carp will look worse than one that's nailed to the deck.

To be honest I fish pop ups so frequently because I tend to fish spots which would be difficult to present a bottom bait on. I don't want the bait wafting about in any weed but at the same time I don't want it dragged down into said weed so I'll balance somewhere in the middle.

[yonny]

31 minutes ago, Dannygooner said:

Test the rig in the sink lol. That's what I do.

Likewise. I have a little tank I use, it sits on top of the bait freezer. There's almost always something in there on test, either new rig components or new pop ups (usually pop ups, testing for prolonged buoyancy). Just this morning I checked in on a new pop up I've been looking at..... 12 hours in and buoyancy is perfect maintained, so far so good.

Most off-the-shelf pop ups don't maintain buoyancy for 24 hrs therefore rig efficiency is compromised. Not a lot of people realise that. There's no way I'd rig one up without extensive testing at home first.

[crusian]

Well one of my most important pieces of equipment is my old 2L semi translucent ice cream tub ; this tub doubles as my refresh water container to splash over any Carp lying in my Carp Cradle , and my Pop Up tester .

I am a putty user , it's a lot more fiddly than a weight , but you can fine tune the balance of your pop up ; I also like to wrap the Putty around the tag end of my last knot .

I also like to position my Grip Stop opposite to where the hook barb ends .

Oh , I'm a Ronnie Rig user .

Hope some of this rambling makes sense , Smufter .

  

[salokcinnodrog]

11 hours ago, Dannygooner said:

Test the rig in the sink lol. That's what I do. I have no confidence in pop ups. Never deliver for me. I'll use a wafter topper these days but that's as far as it goes. Far too many Blanks on pop ups 

I test pop-up rigs Either in the margins, or my dogs bowl😅😉😱

 

I would prefer to use putty than pop-up weights for critically balancing, but sadly crayfish mess that up as they pinch the stuff. Can reel in a popped up wooden ball not knowing if I have been fishing a mini zig...

27 minutes ago, crusian said:

Well one of my most important pieces of equipment is my old 2L semi translucent ice cream tub ; this tub doubles as my refresh water container to splash over any Carp lying in my Carp Cradle , and my Pop Up tester .

I am a putty user , it's a lot more fiddly than a weight , but you can fine tune the balance of your pop up ; I also like to wrap the Putty around the tag end of my last knot .

I also like to position my Grip Stop opposite to where the hook barb ends .

Oh , I'm a Ronnie Rig user .

Hope some of this rambling makes sense , Smufter .

  

 

[smufter]

Thanks for your advice lads. I do test my rigs before I use them (in a bucket of water on the bankside prior to casting out).

Just got no confidence in pop ups I guess.

I've caught on popped up corn before now, but never on an actual "pop up".

[greekskii]

2 hours ago, smufter said:

Thanks for your advice lads. I do test my rigs before I use them (in a bucket of water on the bankside prior to casting out).

Just got no confidence in pop ups I guess.

I've caught on popped up corn before now, but never on an actual "pop up".

wont catch anything on them if you dont use them. 

I'm like yonny and use pop-ups for 95% of my fishing, I will put on a snowman no problem but not used a straight bottom bait for years. My go to rig doesnt even suit using one.

[yonny]

I would add to this thread that while I do not believe in such a thing as a big fish rig, in my opinion you will increase your average size of capture by using pop ups. The higher you fish them off the deck, the higher your average size will climb. If you whack a pop up 3 inches off the deck you'll hook fewer small carp imo as it just looks alien to them. Bigguns wont be be able to tell as they are approaching from above due to their sheer size.....

I have a close mate that's fished the same waters as me for the last 5 years. His average, every year, has been significantly smaller than mine, and he catches just as many fish. Only difference is he fishes bottom baits where I use pop ups. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not.....

Last year, in an attempt to target that huge mirror I has in October, I increased the height of my pop up rigs significantly to avoid the smaller fish. I landed 16 fish after that modification with an average of 31 lb, and then the biggun at 49. Normal average on this water is about 25 lb, my smallest fish was 25 lb. Coincidence? Maybe. Maybe not.....

You might have to wait longer for bites with big blatant pop ups but when the bite comes I find it's worth the wait. My first piece of advice to anyone looking to target big fish would be to use blatant pop up rigs.

Seems to have worked for Vik too looking at his results last year.

[greekskii]

13 minutes ago, yonny said:

The higher you fish them off the deck, the higher your average size will climb. If you whack a pop up 3 inches off the deck you'll hook fewer small carp imo as it just looks alien to them.

tell that to the hordes of small bream and tench I had on the country park fishing 18+15mm snowmen pop ups 3 inches off the deck with size 4s!! if they are ravenous then they will try their luck. But on average yeah, they do pick up the bigger fish and avoid the small stuff. 

 

14 minutes ago, yonny said:

Seems to have worked for Vik too looking at his results last year

Yeah, I have dropped down to 15mm pops for the estate and fish them tight as possible to the deck most of the time however after a bit of maths... 

53 fish landed since June 16th, 2 on bread crust and 3 on snowman baits... leaves 48 on pop ups
Total combined weight of these was 855.07lb with an average of 17.12lb approx. which sounds about right... 48 fish including 20 fish over 20lb, 5 of those being over 25lb, and one of those breaking the 30lb barrier.

Coincidentally all the fish on snowman baits and off the surface were below 15lb... or maybe not?

Luck does come in to it as I said above about the tench and bream! But I do think pop-ups, blatant high ones do pick off bigger fish most of the time. 

Main reason to use pop-ups is that 90% of those gravel spots you find will have a bit of something on them, silt, silkweed, etc. and it's why I use pop ups just over hook height, to keep the hook point clear of it all

[spr1985]

Very interesting reading lads 👌🏻

[yonny]

1 hour ago, greekskii said:

tell that to the hordes of small bream and tench I had on the country park fishing 18+15mm snowmen pop ups 3 inches off the deck with size 4s!!

Lol.... I didn't count the tench I caught! Sometimes there's just no stopping them.....

1 hour ago, greekskii said:

one of those breaking the 30lb barrier.

.... which just so happened to be a lake record in your first season......

1 hour ago, greekskii said:

Coincidentally all the fish on snowman baits and off the surface were below 15lb... or maybe not?

Food for thought eh......

[greekskii]

3 minutes ago, yonny said:

Lol.... I didn't count the tench I caught! Sometimes there's just no stopping them.....

I was going to get 24mm pop ups made up but then decided I'd just fish through them.

4 minutes ago, yonny said:

.... which just so happened to be a lake record in your first season......

Yep, done that twice now! but the other one was on a snowman 

[smufter]

17 hours ago, yonny said:

I would add to this thread that while I do not believe in such a thing as a big fish rig, in my opinion you will increase your average size of capture by using pop ups. The higher you fish them off the deck, the higher your average size will climb.

I'll try this next time out Yonny. As I say, the lake bed at White Cottage is strewn with leaf litter. I normally fish with my pop up about 2" off the weight but I'll try upping it by a couple of inches next time out to see if that makes any difference at all.

Again, thanks all for your thoughts. Much appreciated.

Edited April 19, 2018 by smufter

[yonny]

3 hours ago, smufter said:

I'll try this next time out Yonny. As I say, the lake bed at White Cottage is strewn with leaf litter. I normally fish with my pop up about 2" off the weight but I'll try upping it by a couple of inches next time out to see if that makes any difference at all.

This can only apply if you're getting regular bites Smufter i.e. if you're not getting frequent takes on a 2" pop up changing to a 3" won't do you any favours at all. With bites so hard to come by on White Cottage I'd be looking to increase the chance of any fish, not just the bigguns. Maybe reduce the size of your hookbait?

[smufter]

3 minutes ago, yonny said:

This can only apply if you're getting regular bites Smufter i.e. if you're not getting frequent takes on a 2" pop up changing to a 3" won't do you any favours at all. With bites so hard to come by on White Cottage I'd be looking to increase the chance of any fish, not just the bigguns. Maybe reduce the size of your hookbait?

I'm on 14's at the moment mate, and a lot of the time I whittle those down a bit too.

 

[smufter]

I know!!

I'll change bait

Edited April 19, 2018 by smufter

[yonny]

Lol.....

You know what @smufter, small lakes with big fish tends to mean riggy carp in my experience. Your situation might be one of the few in which I'd be tempted to have a look at bottom baits/wafters (or, more likely, alternative baits i.e. naturals).

[greekskii]

It sounds a busy lake too, I'd be making sure my lines were proper slack and everything as hidden as possible. As @yonny says, wafters are normally a killer tactic on the wary fish.

[smufter]

I already use wafters and bottom baits. Rig tubing, semi slack lines to ensure it's all pinned down

 

[snowman01]

You need to commit to them properly, I was the same roll about 2 years ago. I started on a new water that I realised they would be a useful tool to have but didn't have any confidence having never caught on one. I went to a runs water for a few hours and had a few fish on popups, gave me the confidence to start trying them properly. Now I fish them 80% of the time. I'd still use a snowman bottom bait blow back rig everytime if I can guarantee how clean the bottom is, but most of the time it's a popup. 

[smufter]

8 hours ago, snowman01 said:

You need to commit to them properly, I was the same roll about 2 years ago. I started on a new water that I realised they would be a useful tool to have but didn't have any confidence having never caught on one. I went to a runs water for a few hours and had a few fish on popups, gave me the confidence to start trying them properly. Now I fish them 80% of the time. I'd still use a snowman bottom bait blow back rig everytime if I can guarantee how clean the bottom is, but most of the time it's a popup. 

Funnily enough, I was like that with boilies when I first started lol!
Had always caught my fish on breadflake, luncheon meat, corn etc. Thought I'd have to give these new fangled boilies a try and blanked the 1st couple of times.
Took me a while to get my head around them. 

[snowman01]

On 20/04/2018 at 07:24, smufter said:

Funnily enough, I was like that with boilies when I first started lol!
Had always caught my fish on breadflake, luncheon meat, corn etc. Thought I'd have to give these new fangled boilies a try and blanked the 1st couple of times.
Took me a while to get my head around them. 

Yep, you need to have confidence in what you're doing. Whether you can just accept logic, or have to prove something through some sort of test etc. Like if your fishing popups to combat debris etc then find a clear margin spot and plonk your rig on it in a similar way you imagine the cast landing. You can see how it lands and settles, and how it sits. Like I've just changed to a slightly stiffer coated braid for my boom section because I realised sometimes my previous one wouldn't quite boom out enough. 

These are the two slightly different versions of the hinge rig I use. Those tungsten weights balance my homemade 15mm corkballs out nicely, settle slow enough to sit on top of silkweed but don't sink too slowly. In my mind they are also less likely to snag in the weed than swivels, and the stripped bit of braid behind them gives the movement and rotation. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by snowman01
Added some info!

[Carpbell_ll]

37 minutes ago, snowman01 said:

Yep, you need to have confidence in what you're doing. Whether you can just accept logic, or have to prove something through some sort of test etc. Like if your fishing popups to combat debris etc then find a clear margin spot and plonk your rig on it in a similar way you imagine the cast landing. You can see how it lands and settles, and how it sits. Like I've just changed to a slightly stiffer coated braid for my boom section because I realised sometimes my previous one wouldn't quite boom out enough. 

These are the two slightly different versions of the hinge rig I use. Those tungsten weights balance my homemade 15mm corkballs out nicely, settle slow enough to sit on top of silkweed but don't sink too slowly. In my mind they are also less likely to snag in the weed than swivels, and the stripped bit of braid behind them gives the movement and rotation. 

similar to the reverse combi rig i use for my pop ups, i have been putting the weight at the start of the stripped back braid making some of the braid stand up, gives a nice natural movement in the water, think i could of done with something closer to the deck this past week though.