Rig mechanics

[Lumeymorris]

How can I get a better understanding of how a rig works? As I have a rig that works but I'm always changing the hook or length of the hair and never know weather it helping or making it worse I'm always guessing not really knowing what to change and what to keep

[phildalton1982]

Trial and error, follow other peoples rigs, mags, vids, websites, what i did, find a rig that suits your fishing

 

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[salokcinnodrog]

How can I get a better understanding of how a rig works? As I have a rig that works but I'm always changing the hook or length of the hair and never know weather it helping or making it worse I'm always guessing not really knowing what to change and what to keep

There is a very simple way of looking at your rig:

A) Keep it simple, a standard knotless knotted or knotless knotted and line aligned rig will catch most fish. A knotless knotted rig will not always work, sometimes you do need a line aligner, and a proper line aligner rather than a shrink tube kicker.

 

B) Look at where you hook, or even lose your fish.

If you are hooking in the cheek, the back of the mouth or throat of the fish your hair is too long.

If you lose fish, from hookpulls, or the hook is in the extreme edge of the lip then the hair is too short.

If you get a perfect bottom lip hook placement then the hair length is exactly right.

 

Only change one thing at a time, the hair, the hook, or hooklink material, or length of the hooklink.

The stiffness or suppleness of the hooklink material will make a difference as to how easily the hook and bait is taken, as will whether the hooklink is straightened out or not. Try fishing the same (braided or coated braid) hooklink straightened out or allowed to collapse flat and compare results.

 

Different brands of hooks may be different sharpnesses, even if the pattern shapes are the same or similar. Personally, I have found that the sharpest hooks straight from the pack are Solar 101's, Gardner Muggas, Gamakatsu, ESP/Drennan and Kamasan. I will only ever use those brands.

[smufter]

Try not to fill your head with all the latest wonder rigs. As mentioned above, the simplest rigs have caught the most fish over time.

 

Amen to that!

German rigs, Ronnie rigs, Seesaw rigs....... add a different type of bait screw and let's call it a Bertie rig.

Just tie a hook on the end of your line, freeline a lump of luncheon meat, a worm, some sweetcorn or a lump of breadflake into the margins at first light, tighten up a tad and watch your line where it enters the water.

No rig mechanics and will fool the wariest of carp.

   

[yonny]

I have a rig that works but I'm always changing the hook or length of the hair

 

If you have a rig that works why would you want to change it bud?

 

Stick to what catches you fish fella. If you start changing things for the sake of it you can end up ruining your chances and not knowing why.

[Ghost hunter]

You could always try something different in your second or third rod. Im always looking at improving my rigs so ill always have a slight change on my third & record how it performed in my rig book.

Just an idea

[smufter]

I'm going over to using wafters a lot more so fancy giving this "German Rig" a try as it seems to offer decent presentation and slightly less chance of tangles for a slower sinking bait over my usual blowback rig.

Plus it's easy to tie, and with the line going straight to the swivel attached to the hook will be a lot easier to freeline if necessary (with the correct weight of hook).

[cyborx]

Look at where you hook, or even lose your fish.

If you are hooking in the cheek, the back of the mouth or throat of the fish your hair is too long.

If you lose fish, from hookpulls, or the hook is in the extreme edge of the lip then the hair is too short.

If you get a perfect bottom lip hook placement then the hair length is exactly right.

 

 

 

Nick, please elucidate, just for the thicko's out their (and me )

if the carp sucks the bait into its mouth it will suck with almost the same force every time (imo) therefore the bait should stop in the same place every time, back of the mouth or just in etc.

now comes the confusing bit, surely if the hair is long IE distance from bait to hook point the hook will be toward the front of the mouth, thereby shortening the hair would put the hook further into the mouth and not closer to the lip?

surely too the bait on a short hair would place the hook toward the throat and not the other way round as you state above?

i have read many comments that state it the way you have but i just can not for the life of me grasp the concept... help!!

[phildalton1982]

Surely it depends which way the carp swims off and if the carps mouth was in the right position for the hook to take hold. Fish picks up bait, turns right gets hook in left of mouth and vice versa

 

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[phildalton1982]

I get the concept though, hair length etc

 

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[muftyboy]

Nick, please elucidate, just for the thicko's out their (and me )

if the carp sucks the bait into its mouth it will suck with almost the same force every time (imo) therefore the bait should stop in the same place every time, back of the mouth or just in etc.

now comes the confusing bit, surely if the hair is long IE distance from bait to hook point the hook will be toward the front of the mouth, thereby shortening the hair would put the hook further into the mouth and not closer to the lip?

surely too the bait on a short hair would place the hook toward the throat and not the other way round as you state above?

i have read many comments that state it the way you have but i just can not for the life of me grasp the concept... help!!

I concur.

[snowmanstevo]

Just my 2peneth but I think all carp feed differently,so different rigs will react differently to how they feed.

[salokcinnodrog]

I'm with you on this Cyborx, longer the hair the further away from the bait the hook is, therefore more likely to be at the front of the mouth or outside the mouth, depending how hard they are feeding.

Think Nick must of had a long day before he posted, or he knows something we don't

 

It is the longer the hair the more freedom of the bait to go into the mouth.

A short hair won't allow the bait the freedom to be sucked in, so the hook doesn't even go into the mouth.

If the hair is long enough the hook will follow it into the mouth, then with that hook following the carp 'realises' a foreign object is attached or the bait has something with it it shouldn't, so attempts to blow that foreign object out, giving the chance for the hook to pr ick into the lip.

The hair needs to be long enough for the hook to be taken in in the first place.

 

 

 

You have actually picked up on another point

how hard they are feeding

.

If they are feeding on close together particles, pellets or groundbait, then you can get away with a shorter hair, whereas boilies that are further apart you will likely need the hair to be longer.

 

You can actually watch fish in tanks or ponds, if you put a baited hook in there, after a few hookings, the carp will suck the bait from further away, so lengthen the hair and you can continue to hook them.

Now imagine that in a big lake, big as in fishable size, and you can see how the hair needs to be changed to suit.

 

Rod Hutchinson wrote about most of this in The Carp Strikes Back, so it's not new

 

Carp don't suck in with the same force each time; each food reacts differently, size, density and the lakebed will change how much pressure to move it is required. Sweetcorn is a light bait, so will require less suck than an 18mm boilie. That 18mm boilie on a firm sand or clay lakebed will need less suck than an 18mm boilie sat in silt. Other particles, hemp or tares are pretty dense and 'heavy', or larger particles like chick peas, maple peas or maize are almost boilie size.

 

Steve then picks up another point, carp feed differently. Some carp are suckers and blowers, others pick certain foods up, and some truffle, trough or dig the lakebed, especially when feeding on bloodworm or maggots in silt. (Deeper areas that have been cleaned down).

 

A pop-up rig will need to be considered as to whether the carp is clamping down on it, or sucking the bait in from a distance.

[Lumeymorris]

You really need to know more about how fish feed in different situations. Different baiting situations, different types of food on offer, and different types of bottoms, gravel,silt, weed etc...

I would start there first, and you will gain a better understanding of why certain rigs work in certain situations.

If you've messed around lately to the point of confusion, (don't worry, we've all done that.). Then go back to the very basics of , decent sharp hook, hair rig knotless knotted with the bait hanging a couple of mm from the hook bend, and a 7/8 inch hooklink. It's as simple as it gets. You can make small adjustments from there. 

Try not to fill your head with all the latest wonder rigs. As mentioned above, the simplest rigs have caught the most fish over time.

Location and a decent bait are more important IMO.

 

I've recently started using the ESP Cryogen range of hooks and found them to be very sharp.

 

 

That's what I've done I've stopped following the latest and greatest and gone back to a real simple rig and its working so don't want to change only improve if need be now I get the hair side of it but now how do you know what shape hook to use? As this is mainly what I change and lately I've gone for a bigger hook a size 6 and seem to landing more fish when using a bigger hook (which is a esp raptor wide gape I think) when I would normally use a size 7/8 fang.

And are there thing I can research up on at home instead to get a better understanding of baiting strategies on different bottoms just to give me half an idea.

[beanz]

I'v done well on long hairs over the years, even on pop ups, one of my best sessions came while using a 2inch gap between hook and bait with the hook 3inches of the deck, all were hooked solid and bang dead centre , and one had the bait cut off.....this I guessed was because the bait had been taken back into the teeth.............now a bit of a ramble as its hard to write what I think, but, the mass (?) of the bait is affected far greater when blown out then the mass of the hook ( or is it drag?? something anyway), so when the bait goes in further with the hook, the hook stays in longer(milliseconds) until the bait is ejected which I believe gives a better chance for the hook to turn and take a hold.

 

One thing that I know for sure is that while using long hairs I hardly ever have hook pulls.

[salokcinnodrog]

And are there thing I can research up on at home instead to get a better understanding of baiting strategies on different bottoms just to give me half an idea

In theory yes, but in practice no, because every lake and how fish feed is different.

Carp on some lakes may eat groundbait, yet on others due to other fish getting there first, they don't. Maybe Sweetcorn attracts tench, roach or bream before the carp, yet on waters with no or fewer silver fish the carp get there first

 

On smooth clean lake beds smaller particles will lift up as fish or water currents move them around. In silty waters, the particles may sink in or sit on, so the response there is different.

How far a boilie lifts up when a fish sucks will depend on each water, some waters the fish may use 'only just enough' suck to draw the bait to them, yet after being hooking they may actually use two sucks to test a food item (the reason for the invention of the extending hair).

The first suck takes the extent of the hair, the second suck draws the (expected) free bait into the mouth.

A bait that is on a hair shorter than the distance for the first suck, and if will ping back as if on elastic.

 

You really need to fish and learn your water, and then as you move on remember that waters don't all fish the same because you have different stock levels, different lakebeds, different strains and shapes of carp.

[smufter]

Carp feed differently. Some carp are suckers and blowers, others pick certain foods up, and some truffle, trough or dig the lakebed, especially when feeding on bloodworm or maggots in silt. 

I've just got to hope that the carp I meet up with are troughing it like a load of hungry Germans.....

   

[smufter]

I like to keep my hooklengths to 8" or under.

I have a Korda rig safe that will only take 8" hooklengths

   

[smufter]

Well I've just tied my first German rig... everything went ok. Funny thing was that when I held it over my steaming kettle to shrink the tubing, I'm sure I heard a little voice squealing "nein, nein, nein". It then went very quiet.

[yonny]

I never alter the length of my hairs. I'll change the length of a rig to suit the substrate but never the length of the hair, I just stick to what I know works with my chosen rig.

In fairness I hardly ever use hairs nowadays, I usually present on D or micro swivel of some kind.

[cyborx]

since getting confused by the hair length thingie a couple of years ago i developed my own take on the german rig and found that i was nailing them quite acceptably all of a sudden instead of having to firk the hook out of the scissors which actually makes a mockery of Nicks explanation above (sorry Nick, no insult meant) and that was the reason that i asked as it still dont gell

i must be a lost cause

[smufter]

Like Yonny, I very rarely alter the length of my hair. If I'm using a slightly larger bait than usual I'll use a hair extender bait stop to help keep the same separation between bait and hook. The only thing I'm not happy about with this German rig is having to attach my bait to a micro swivel..... I'd much rather be using an eyed bait screw but then I'm not going to get the same free movement of my bait.

[cyborx]

Glad Cyborx re posted, was beginning to go mad.

 

what the hell did i post that saved your sanity?

and here i am losing mine

[smufter]

I bought some bait screws with micro swivel attached, if that helps..... Try Colne Valley Tackle or Bankside Tackle on the bay, about £1.20 for ten....

You haven't got a link have you B.C? Just carried out an extensive search and can find bait screws with rings attached but none with swivels...Thanks mate.

[cyborx]

You haven't got a link have you B.C? Just carried out an extensive search and can find bait screws with rings attached but none with swivels...Thanks mate.

heres a couple for ya smufter

 

http://www.tacklebox.co.uk/bait-presentation/soft-bait-and-maggot/thinking-anglers-hook-ring-swivel-screws.html

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Taska-Carp-NEW-Fishing-Matte-Black-Threaded-Swivel-Bait-Ring-/232127257110?hash=item360bdcda16:g:66MAAOSwMVdYExuI