phil dalts Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Hi everyone,I've been fishing a lake recently where you have to chuck it over 100yrds, when you get a take its normally a screamer! Trouble is because you have to bully the fish through weed and away from snags 90% of the fish have some kind of mouth damage, I've used barbless to see if this helps but I lose em or still get damage,any ideas???? I'm using a standard bottom bait rig,knotless knot with tubing on shank to an 18mm bait,size 8 hook. I'm feeling guilty about the damage because that's what I don't to happen just to land em,plus the state of the poor carps mouth....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborx Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) hey phil, its the barbless hooks that do the damage IMO as they can and do come free then rehook rattle about and do all sorts when the fish is acrobating about. whereas a micro barb will catch and hold every time, if you use a pattern that will catch in the bottom of the lip (such as the gardner mugga) then you minimize the damage to a single puncture in the meatiest part. you can always cut the hook free with side cutters by pushing it all the way thru then clipping off behind the barb, the hook will then slide easily away. a quick dab of carp treatment and she can go back feeling like shes had a day at the spa as i said before IMO, this will be disputed by others i dare say tight lines jon Edited October 6, 2014 by cyborx hawkman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil dalts Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 That's why I try not to use barbless, I think its the bullying that's causing the damage though,no way round it. Alternative is lose the fish which defeats the object of going! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Fishing can be ugly at times mate .... The fact that your considering your options speaks volumes and is all you can do , stick with the micro barb . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil dalts Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Its making me not want to fish there,fish are imaculate and its a crying shame they are scared by hooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Not wanting to start a big debate again on the subject but am I right in thinking you fish braid mainline ? Or have I got you confused with someone else ? Also have you had a chat with fellow anglers on the lake to see if there experiencing similar issues ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmcee Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 up the size of your hooks. 90% of my fishing is done with size 4's. nice bit of metal, it goes in and stays in. no tares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil dalts Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Not wanting to start a big debate again on the subject but am I right in thinking you fish braid mainline ? Or have I got you confused with someone else ? Also have you had a chat with fellow anglers on the lake to see if there experiencing similar issues ? no,someone else mate,I use 18lb mono n 3lb t/c rods,as for other people there aren't any I've see yet.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkman Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Pick a hook with a 'generous' barb. As said above, Gardner hooks offer this. Muggas, Incizors , take your pick and reel them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil dalts Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Pick a hook with a 'generous' barb. As said above, Gardner hooks offer this. Muggas, Incizors , take your pick and reel them in. im slightly concerned,what's a "generous barb"?? Sure its the pressure exerted on the fishes mouth during the fight,trying to pull it away from snags and through weed? I use micro barb for ease of getting hook out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welder Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Phil, scroll back up and read the last few lines of Cyborx' post. Then Hawkman's post will make more sense. I wholeheartedly agree with both of them, by the way. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Yey agree with everyone else Phil , barbed hooks stay put and barbless hooks cause a lot more damage mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil dalts Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I agree,just don't like the damage caused by the pulling force,gonna try larger hooks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnplumb Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 The pulling force will remain the same the difference will come by using a thicker wire hook ( usually bigger ) this will help spread the load on the point of entry in the mouth , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Good post john . Just a thought here but nobody has mentioned dumping the lead here . Would that help ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil dalts Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I get ya,thinner gauge hook is like cheese wire, so size 4,5,6 is the way to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil dalts Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Dumping the lead would reduce the drag through the weed but the main problem is the volume of the wriggling fish resisting being pulled towards you. The best solution is a netting boat and if it is as bad as you describe, it may be worth the owners while spending some money. I dump the lead,there's pockets of weed that the fish swim towards and through, U can get em out with steady pressure, just think its as you guys say,hook gauge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalthegooner Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I'd use a braid. Its definitely the way to go :evilgrin: Along with bigger barbed hooks of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I'd use a braid. Its definitely the way to go :evilgrin: Along with bigger barbed hooks of course What he says. Less stretch at range improves the hook set, braid will saw through weed better than mono, and the fatter hook will cut less lip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Oh, ok. I have a venue with the same problem, we cast 95 yds to get past the weeds then have to try to keep them heads up and out of trouble all the way in. Sometimes I keep the barb but it's normally pinched back (who knows what I'll do?) - I have factory barbless carp hooks but haven't used them, they just seem too slick. Mouth damage for me is normally not an issue with pinched barbs but if the swim is likely to give me trouble I'll probably keep the barb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Cm ,I only mentioned if he was fishing braid wondering if the lack of stretch and the fact he is really having to bully them , was exerting more pressure on the hook than with mono , certainly wasn't to wind up a grumpy old man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalthegooner Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) unless I am mistaken Buzz, old Dals having a naughty little pop at someone not very far away, but thanks for agreeing with me through him, ho ho. I actually think that on a very weedy lake, and if you are allowed, braid is better and the way to go. Although I did post it knowing it could spark a well overdone debate again Edited October 8, 2014 by dalthegooner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyborx Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 i too think that on a well weedy lake braid and barbed are the way to go,, us grumpy old men gotta stick together ok as an after thought tho, if you dont like using full barbed take a pair of pliers and very carefully pinch the end of the barb all the way down and this will give you a hump that still stops the hook pulling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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