ouchthathurt

another "fashionable rig then... can see what knorty is saying, the KD rig is designed to make the rig act "point heavy" so as it is being sucked into the carps mouth boilie first, the hook is "supposed" to hang so the hook is near-upside down? this would mean the hook is hanging as a grappling hook almost, so if a point heavy hook was to be dragged accross the outside of the carps mouth on its way in, then it is conceivable that it could hook up on the outside of the carps mouth. after all the hook is following the boilie as it is propelled out of its mouth. so surely its conceivable that the hook will act the same regardless of which way its being sucked/blown as it is being forced in a particular direction by the propulsion of the boilie. the KD rig is designed to be point heavy - so the point is designed to drop into the floor of the mouth, and the point to hang low down to snare in the bottom lip, floor of mouth, surely if this action is snaring fish on the way out, as the hook point is hanging so it is the lowest point of the rig, then the same action would be true when it is being sucked in? when the hook point would (perhaps) drag along the chin and hook up. if i'm honest, i couldnt give a monkeys about these so - called wonder-rigs, i find good bait application in the right location is much more important, you can catch a carp that is not there, no matter how hi-tec the rig is, i think the more hi-tec rigs are to catch anglers and make money - in my experience, the more hi-tec the rig is, the more likely it is to fail. i've used the simple silkworm - knotless knot - ESP/JRC hook for years, sometimes with the addition of shrinktube to flip the hook, which has always outfished the complicated hi-tec rigs i've used. i went through a phase where i hadnt been fishing for a while due to work/family commitments. when i got back onto the lake, i struggled to get a fish, so convinced my rigs were at fault, so i trawled the mags and tied up all these complicated wonder-rigs and all i did was get increasingly more confused with each rig change, on the end my confidence was shot, i didnt know what i was doing, what would work, nothing - but i had the best hi-tec in vouge wonder-rig by the mags, so surely that couldnt be it? maybe it was my location? - no, there were carp over my spots, the bait? no it was a bait i had used lots of time in the past to brilliant success, so what was it? i reeled in and looked at my rigs and they were rediculous, shot and tubing and rings and swivels everywhere - but the magazines had raved about these rigs as the next best thing since sliced bread, but in the cold light of day - on the bank in a real life situation, they looked clownlike, cluttered, a useless mess really! so i cut them off, tied up simple knotless knot hair-rigs on silkworm, to simple running rigs, exactly the same rigs i'd started with over 12yrs before - and had been using ever since - as they worked a treat, cast back tothe spots and finally, the alarm went into its warcry - i started to catch again, the bait and location were the same, but the rigs were different, the ironic thing is, if i had looked back to my previous successes on this rig/bait combination, then i should have had the confidence to stick to my guns and ride out the blanks safe in the knowledge that they worked, and worked well, but i fell into the trap of believing that my rigs were at fault and i needed to "upgrade" them to the wonder-rig of the day, which ended up destroying my confidence and doing much more harm than good, that was about 3yrs ago, and i still use the exact same type of rigs now, and have done really well on them wherever i've taken them. its the correct bait application and the correct location that will produce the goods, not the spinning/cutting/blowback/flipper/rythymisadancer rig. in fact, i can think of many occassions when i have been tempted to use more compicated rigs than the situation dictated - because the mags say its the wonder-rig when the simple rig would have been much better - and my catches have suffered as a result. i now refine my basic rigs to suit, silkworm or amnesia - shrinktube or not, and i'm happy with my success rate now. ouchthathurt

yeah your right, i still like to test all my rigs by laying them in the margin beforehand, sometimes we can really overcomplicate matters. theres something that gives you a good feeling when you look at your rig in the margin and it looks good, it really does help. ouchthathurt

i tend to just hair rig my pop ups using a fine mono hair and micro needles, i tend not to worry about pop ups up staying up for 24hrs+ my sessions are only about 6-8hrs long... secondly, a pop up that dont float is a critically balanced bait is it not? i do like to test my pop ups both on casting and on retrieval, to make sure they are still floating. however we do need to be mindful of wether the pop ups are really floating as we would like in the lake - what with all that water pressure bearing down on it. it is easy - and perhaps wrong, to assume the pop up behaves the same way in 10feet of water as it does in 1ft of margins where water pressure is much less. ouchthathurt.

i used to hate using pop ups, didnt really see the point, my analagy was if you "came across a plate of chips and one was hovering above the rest, you wouldnt eat it would you?" now recently, looking back, i'd say approx 75% of my 20s and 30s have fallen to pop up presentations. usually fished about 3/4" - 1 1/2" off the bottom, usually on their own or with a light scattering of whole boilies about - i'm a fan of the big boilies approach, yet, for years i hated pop ups. these days, when i put a pop up out, i know that there is a good chance that the bait will be presented over the bottom debris, and that the presentation will suffice until i can suss out the best course of action, indeed when i caught a 27 + 31lb common i was fishing red plum double strength pop ups over pva bags of micro pellets over a large - plain silt bed, now i'm sure the micro pellets didnt last long, either dissolved - eaten by silvers or snk into the silt but the bright red stinking pop ups did the biz(za) twice that night, so they do work. ouchthathurt

yes i agree, recently there have been many improvements in fluro technology, i even saw in a magazine to steam your fluro, something a few years ago would've weakened it. i am currently using ultima powercarp fluro as a mainline, its really thin for its strength, reasonable abraision resistance and knot strength, its not too bad, however i do need to contsantly clean the line off. ouchthathurt

if all else fails, go back to the good old trusty amnesia! much cheaper than these modern fluros and seems stronger too, modern fluro is a really delicate material, you need to tie rigs with kids gloves, inturned eyes cause flat spots on the fluro which can really weaken it, as can friction if you tie it too "roughly" or forget to moisten it, and by that i mean "coat it in so much spittle that its dripping off" - i find this keeps the friction down! out turned eyes are brought about as they lessened the acute angle caused by the "no-knot" styles, of which many people were experiencing the same dramas you describe. ouchthathurt

my rigs for this year are the same as last year, and the year before, and before etc - only change rigs if there is a need to - i think they are no longer doing the job. i like to keep things simple, silkworm braid, JRC dave lane hooks, helecopter rigs, leadcore. as for all these wonderrigs out there, well i think they catch anglers more than carp - all these new "spinning-flipper-razor-hooker-30lber rig" well you can keep it, i am always amused how tey are sold as the "only big carp rig" and the rig that will "definiatly catch more big carp" - so if i tie one on it will definiatly catch me a big carp? well only if my location was spot on and my baits are well chosen and there is a big carp feeding in the swim to begin with, it cannot guarantee you will catch a big carp anymore than i can. simple is best, KISS! oucthathurt

from experience, most river carp can fall to really simple tactics, they are as a rule not any near as pressured as their lake cousins. even the "pressured" ones, however there are cases of lake fish "holidaying" in flooded river systems when rivers burst their banks in winter floods, and the carp move into river systems, whilst i have no doubt that this is sometimes the case, i am not convinced this happens as often as we'd like to believe, most fish heading to their established shelters and "safe areas" during times of hardship - i would like to think that a big ole carp would rather hunker down in his favourite snag during the floods, rather than face the raging torrents of a flooded bank,to head into an area that is fast flowing, shallow with no possibility of knowing whats at the end. however smaller carp must have done this journey, willing or otherwise, in order to have ended up in the river system, indeed, it is documented that a Colne valley lake lost approx 1/3rd of its stock during floods into the river, but i hope this is a rare example! there are documented sightings/catches of carp in my local river Stour, in Dorset, we are talking the upper reaches around (and above) Blandford Forum, now we are talking low deep, wide meandering reaches up until you hit the weir in Blandford which is shallow, fast, clear grayling/trout/chub territory. its a very strange set up, above the weir, Crown meadows area is bream/perch/carp/tench territory, water goes over the weir to fast shallow grayling/barbel ground, i've seen carp anglers and fly anglers mere metres apart, one fshing below the weir, one above it! as for the bream, they love fishmeals/pellets, so prebaiting with those will attract them, they seem to ignore tiger nuts, so these can be fairly selective. however, the point is this, why do you want to avoid attracting them? a large shoal of feeding fish will surely get the carp moving in to investigate, if you think to the "baiting pyramid" theory where the larger fish are attracted by the feeding signals of smaller fish and move in over the feed, pushing out the smaller fish in the process. you say you know the area well and can see the carp in residence? then yu can spend some time watching them, work out their resting areas, where they feed, where they go if they feel threatened, etc. learn their habits and things (should!) get easier. once you have established feeding areas, then you can begin to target them using precision baiting and tactics, negating the need to prebait - reconnicaince is never wasted. as for rigs, well they need to be strong and simple, a good decent braid and strong hook is a good start, river carp spend their lives working n and against the flow, so they are often more tuned and lean than their (more flabby(!?)) lake counterparts. so they can fight like tigers, especially if they can use the flow to their advantage. good strong tackle is a must to help you counter this. many rivers have snaggy/rocky/gravelly/zebra mussel infested bottoms, so good strong abraision resistent lines and leaders are important. river carp are a good challenge, i'm currently hunting a particular mirror that haunts the crown meadows... ouchthathurt.

if you have no experience of using leadcore, then dont. try anchor rig tube. i have used leadcore for years and there is two ways of tying it, using a spliced loop in the 'core and attaching the mainline loop to loop which is the best way, or else you can use a needle knot. but 'core is a skill to use, not for the inexperienced or the faint-hearted.

the more complicated the rig, the more complonents needed to make it, the more money goes to the manufacturers, look at korda, made a fortune convincing the nation their rigs were a pile of toss in their "revealing" DVD series, then cleaned up selling the "wonder" components as seen in said DVD... exellent marketing strategy, all fair in love and business i suppose...

it dies in transit to wherever your taking it, its an illegal move, without paperwork, its worthless now its dead, so why not pull over and sling it out the back of the van? some people are sick. moving back to the subject of magazines slightly, when i was younger, the emphasis was on bait, every article had a bait recipie involved, aminos peach, robin red fishmeals etc, it taught us that bait was the overriding factor, and as a result, i grew up learning how to formulate a great bait, and concocted a bait on a premier aminos base, with GLM, betaine, fruit factor 6, smoked ham flavour, granulated sugar and salmon oil, with the egg shells crushed up for exta calcium, it was a stonking bait that still works just as well as it did when i made it up 15yrs ago. rigs were hardly mentioned in articles, and as such all i did was straight mono hooklinks with sensible bait application. these days it seems to be all about having the most advanced, complicated rigs with little more than a passing mention to the most important item of the whole package, the bait in the first place! people are tying the most complex rig in the magazine, then coupling it with a cheap, low quality bait and slinging the whole sorry mess somewhere into the pond.

what working along the theory that if the carp can see it, they are able to move around it without spooking? maybe they will, after all, i doubt they dont spook off every stick poking up off the bottom, can they tell the difference from a length of tube and a stick rubbing along their flank? i know they feel different, but how does the carp know that? he dont have fingertips!

i saw that in carp talk, on the front cover. didnt buy the mag though, just wanted to see the article. how the hell can you "lose" a 30lb carp? its gotta be poachers or a french import, either way, it did not deserve to end up there.

why not just scrap them altogther??? sowing needle and dental floss, does a pukka job for me!

well i never... ought to be ashamed of themselves!!! i see it a lot, i remember using Zigs in the early nineties to target these carp who sat basking over a sunken log 1ft under the water over 8ft margins. i would cast a zig tight to the log then the pop up would be set at 7ft so it hovered just on the edge of the sunken log. the carp would drift along the margins, up onto this sunken log, following it like a road then at the root end, the carp would skim over the edge into the 8ft of water below. brilliant ambush carping. also... if every "named" angler are all claiming to be the only person to be using the latest rig, and they all claim to use slack lines and mono hooklinks and particles ont boilies so they are "different from the crowd" then how they can they possibly be different? they ALL claim to be the only person to be using a particular method! say they are the only person to be using, say, method X, then they tell the anglng public their method X, then say 1/3 of their readership start to use method X then they no longer are the only person to be using it, yes? so does this mean they have changed their methods to do something else? say method Z? so they are telling the world they are on method X, when they are realy on method Z? is this fair on the magazine devouring public? personally, i dont mind what they do, as i take these angling publications with a large pinch of salt anyway, and really dont care what they are up to, but what of those who follow their articles religiously? those that actually read, digest and try their articles based on the fact they think this named angler is using it? i understand and accept that for newcomers, angling publications are an easy and readily accessible source of easy to follow advice on many methods to carp fishing, for me, reading yet another article called "50 ways with PVA" or something similar really doesnt float my boat, but thats just me. i know that these articles can prove invaluable for those who want to learn the subject they are covering. do you think that magazines should move away from the current trends of publishing and pushing forward these new and wonder rigs, and perhaps concentrate mre on the basics, like bait making, location, feature finding, KEEPING IT SIMPLE!!! etc. in this day and age of carping where "SAFE" rigs are all important, then shouldnt magazines stop showing these latest wonder rigs who often turn out to be quite dangerous and not as safe or effective under water as they are on their kitchen table at home where it was origionally concieved?

those maggot clips that everyone were singing that would "revoloutionise" maggot fishing, what is it one/two seasons on? you dont hear them entioned. is this because there were unnecessarily complicated? too cumbersome? too heavy?

do you feel, like me, that all these new wonder rigs have a faint hint of "de ja vous" to them? for instance, i brought my first carp angling magazine for years recently, and every "big name" angler were all going on about the wonders of the "KD rig", the "revoloutionary rig" that will improve your catch rate, with out a doubt. as i looked at this new "wonder rig" i couldnt help but think how similar it looked to a rig called the "simple/complicated rig" that steve renyard brought to the magazine buying generation a few years back. yet, another angler made the comparison from the KD rig to the "shot on the hair rig" which was claimed to have similar hooking properties. yet again, comparisons were made to supposedly unknown rg called the "through the eye rig" that was used on a few waters in the mid nineties, yet actually appeared in rob maylins "tiger bay" first published in 1988 about fishing savay and the colne valley in the 1980s, called the "through the eye pop up rig" (No1 carp angling book - tiger bay!) all of the above rigs work of the same principle of kicking the hook out at an aggressive angle, yet despite the re-incarnations and name changes, they are essentially the same blooming thing. i used to think i was missing out by not buying magazines, now i realise not being bombarded by these excessive, constant, and quite frankly, useless attempts to reinvent the hair rig, is actually an advantage, as i now just stick to my simple, proven rigs that i'm confident in. rather than try the latest "hooking/singing/dancing/wonder/fantaboulous/braided/pop-up/snowman/twister/gripper/swimmer/longshank/benthook/barbed/tubed/shrunk/swivelled/floating/sinking/wafter/corked/maggot/ringed/D/A/B/KD/XYZ rig" that someone is claiming the best thing since lenny middleton and kevin maddocks thought "hey if i tied the bait to the hook instead of burying it inside it might hook better..." what does everyone else think, do you look at these new "wonder rigs" and think, yep, seen that one before, or doy you think, WOW!!! i simpily MUST try that one straight away? can carp anglers think for themsleves when it comes to rigs?

ihave used leadcore fro years and acannot remember a time when i have had any problems, but i am open to new ideas, so i have recently changed over to rig tubing, to see how i get on. i can see the arguement against 'core in some respects, so feel i should experiment.

i have used longshank hooks for years, from the kamazan B175 fly hooks to the ESP longshanx. i have recently started using the korda kurv shanks. still love the ESP hooks as have taken carp to 31lb on them with exellent hookholds.

i used trilene big game mono hooklinks for ages with no problems. i often start with fluro/mono links anyway due to the popularity of braided/coated hooklinks, its nice to do something different!

i had exellent results with amnesia. i have also used ESP ghost to good effect. i have ultima powercarp fluro mainline in 12lb, that is pretty thin and good for hooklinks. one 1000m bulk spool was good to respool both baitrunners with plenty left over for hooklinks.

i've used amnesia for years, it was a big edge for me on my water as everyone was using these hi-tec modern coated braids, i used good ole amnesia and did really well on it. i know it was the link that made a difference, i went from not having a single take all season, just the odd bleep or lift to having full blooded one toners with decently hooked fish. i've also been playing around with ESP ghost and bristle filament. i feel the ghost is easier to work with.

when i fished in silt, i used to hammer my 1.5oz leads flat so they sank slower, instead of crashing into the silt. i lengthen my silkworm hooklinks to 10-12" and put a PVA foam nugget over the hook. still, each and everyone of us will have found something that works for them.

or just tie a PVA stopknot a short way from the lead.

most of these "wonder-rigs" are designed more to catch the angler than the carp. i use the most simple rig i can get away with, i am more interested in offering a decent bait in the correct location. if the carp find it, and they want it, they'll have it. the more simple things are, the eaiser it is to analyse things when things go wrong.