salokcinnodrog

i dont follow you??? may be someone that HASN'T had a brain tumor removed by a surgeon that just got back from a holiday in Dublin can understand........but i dont. some thing to think about......a lead tied on to the mainline then hooklink tied to the lead, fixed lead.( death rig ) would be fine while its still connected to the rod....its when its NOT connected and left live in the water that it kills Your not following me right I mean a swivel tied to the end of the mainline then a weaker mono link tied to that swivel then the lead tied to the weaker mono. The hook link is still running on the mainline so no need for starky comments lol I got what you meant, hence my reply. I know you were aiming your comments at Beanz, but I think he has the same misgivings as I do If the hooklink is running on the mainline, and a swivel at the bottom, there is not enough weight to pull the rig free off the top end of the line. If the hooklink is in the "middle" of that broken, cracked off line, how does it pull free? It would take one end snagging up for the rig to be able to be ejected, yet if the line has twisted around itself then that may not be able to happen. It amazes me how little effort it takes for line to knot around itself, an almost untieable knot with loops hanging around it, yet those loops may also be enough to trap the line on a snag. That means the fish is now not only trailing the line, but is potentially tethered. Yet if the lead was attached, then the rig would previously have been pulled free as the lead dragged behind.

I try to keep it as simple as possible with my pop-up rigs on pendant or inline leads. I don't think that on most occasions a pop-up rig is actually sucked in at all, I think most pop-up baits are picked up, so with that in mind I keep the bait as tight as I can to the hookshank. A "standard" hooklink, with at least part of it being supple (and braided), or hinged. My "lazy" method is to tie a uni knot loop at the end of the hooklink, put the pop-up in, pull loop tight, and then attach hook by the knotless knot with the bait tight to the shank, maybe a small piece of silicon holding it in place. I also prefer "overweighting" the pop-up so that there is no way that it can be wafted about and risk foul hooking, although critically balancing it with only just enough weight to sink it can help at times. Other than that, I do sometimes use a D-rig

I don't think that fishing a weak link will increase the safety for fish! It will mean that should the lead be ejected, the rig is not "pulled off" the leader or mainline, and the fish will be trailing 2 lengths of line attached to the rig, with the rig in the middle, until one end is snagged up and pulls the hooklink free of the other. Strangely enough the comment about a lead whacking across the carp's head is pertinent though, and another reason for me not using helicopter set-ups unless I absolutely have to, which is usually long distance, and not as a Chod set-up. At range fishing the lead is going to be in front of the fish; the fish will be coming towards you or scrapping side to side, so the lead is not whacking the fish. However when the fish is going away from you in the fight it is possibly going to cause damage.

Years ago long before "Chods" were the fashionable name for Silt rigs I came up with a set-up that works with the beads fixed on a piece of sliding tubing. The whole length of tubing is able to slide up the line, so that the bait and hooklink settles on top of the silt, yet when you play a fish, it will slide down to the lead. I actually worry about a set-up where the lead is trailing a long way behind the fish if the rig is fixed say 30centimetres up the line, and I also don't think that it is best fished with a slack line. My reason for this is that at times the fish can easily eject (any) the hook/rig set up. If the line is slack you may not know that you have been done, whereas with a tight line you should at least get a bleep or 2 when you get done, and can deal with it.

Aye, I am Have a read of this link , maybe some other interesting links in the linked thread as well

Part of your comment is one reason I don't like Helicopter set-ups, especially with a "naked" line section of light breaking strain mainline. You should be using a line strength of at least 15lb to my mind. Have a read of these, some good pics and ideas here: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=51296 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=36456 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?p=519408#519408 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=37603 Thanks for your patience. That last thread had a brilliant picture in it and would be my preferred set up. The only thing is, if the beads can release then how do you prevent them sliding down the line on the cast or when playing a fish? This is probably obvious but not to me I currently use Daiwa sensor brown 15lb. I don't want to use a leader so should I go for a higher breaking strain line? The new lake I am fishing has some nice twenties and probably thirties too by now. What size beads should I use and which of the two sizes of sinker? The beads I used on that set-up were 8mm Rubber beads. A small PVA string loop or foam nugget will stop the beads sliding down on the cast, but it honestly doesn't matter that much, as you want them to slide up the line on impact with the water, so that the rig itself settles on the silt. As for playing fish, it doesn't matter if they slide down to the lead attachment, in fact it is more likely to help avoid the trailing lead getting snagged or stuck in anything. I've landed a fair number of fish to over 30lb on 15lb Daiwa Sensor, its a pretty good line, and years ago I did use it with Helicopter set-ups.

Part of your comment is one reason I don't like Helicopter set-ups, especially with a "naked" line section of light breaking strain mainline. You should be using a line strength of at least 15lb to my mind. Have a read of these, some good pics and ideas here: http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=51296 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=36456 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?p=519408#519408 http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=37603

If you include Combi rigs, braid to stiff section, then yes, for a lot of years

Not quite. I already had confidence in Carp-R-Us patterns, always had some in the tackle box, but also had some ESP patterns. Then when this article was published and accused me of being an armchair angler with nothing better to do than "argue" over something as trivial as leadcore, and not actually fishing, in fact the response almost totally avoided the actual opinion about leadcore, I decided to boycott ESP. Please also note, this was not the Keith Moors "Against Leadcore" piece, but the other anglers response.

Having tried Keiths test many times over the years, some intentionally and some not so those slack lines really do make a difference. Attempting to cut through the water is a whole lot harder than pulling through it. If you think of a tight line in water, and what happens on a take, the line is cutting through the water at any angle. You will only get any indication if the fish is actually able to move the lead any distance, but there is pressure holding the line in place, and again it would be cutting through the water Now with this running lead and slack line you have the line under no tension. On a take the run ring allows the line free passage, it slides through the run ring, the line is not cutting through the water, it pulls through this tube. I went back to run rings again, as even though you have your set-up shown with a running lead, I'm not 100% sure of the true effects of an inline running lead. I think that on most occasions that they actually dive into the lakebed, and go "nose down". Now on most lakebeds, there is always likely to be sediment build-up and as the lead lands it will put its nose at the very least into this sediment. Come to that, over time the lead may start to sink into the silt. Or even the nose just dinks into the gravel, clay or sand; This would prevent the lead being free running. Now with a run ring, again a lead may pull the whole lot into sediment (no arguments, it will happen), but as we tend to fish the least silty areas , is less likely to be buried; for those who do actively fish in silt and sediment, the simple addition of a lead link (curse and darn it, possibly made of leadcore), will keep the run ring and end tackle above it.

I used to have great faith in Carp-R-Us Centurions and Nailers, but found them difficult to get hold of. I used to use ESP hooks, and again, one hook landed plenty of fish with no resharpening, including fish to over 26lb, but after a "dispute" (over Leadcore of all things) with a well known angler and his views and what he wrote in a magazine, I started boycotting ESP products. I started using Covert Muggas over a year ago, and have yet to lose a fish on them (although I have lost fish in that time on other patterns). In that time I have landed a lot of fish, to over 30lb at ranges from the margins up to 100metres, so I have played fish under plenty of pressure. I don't worry about sharpening hooks, I test them out the packet, and if they are sharp enough they get used.

That's a bit close to the truth. My grandfather came over from Russia at the turn of the last century

Gary, I honestly think we "overthink" situations sometimes. I much prefer the run ring pendant set-up of running leads. I don't think that inline running leads behave at all as we think that they do. You need a heavier lead to have the free movement of the line through the lead, and you have to hope that the lead is not nose down and trapping any line, which unless you place the lead by hand you can't guarantee. In my case I accept the reduction of sensitivity with a length of tubing and the run ring on that, but again, with the heavier lead (3oz in my case), I think that the lead holds bottom well, yet light leads obviously do work as Moorsey has proved time and time again. Under this little lot is a couple of rigs, complete with tubing and running leads. These were taken from directly above the rigs, even with normal rubbish on the bottom in what is actually quite clear water, it is reasonably difficult to pick out lead, line, run ring and hooklink. It is the hookbaits that are the most visible and easily distinguished.

Fly fishing hook, for trout I think, probably not strong enough for Salmon Fishing in smaller sizes

Is this any use? http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=39298&highlight=rig+mechanics I think the only change I have affected in my fishing since then has been my change to an inturned pattern for pop-ups, like Kamasan B175's. The rig I worked out then, is still pretty much my standard rig on that water, and its still catching

Black and clear Amnesia worked for me, even the green when I could get it. I used the loop knot at the swivel end, 3 turn blood knot the hook on and then tie a bait floss or whipping thread hair down the shank from the eye. I did try it with a knotless knot from the Amnesia itself, but found it a little stiff and got a few hookpulls doing that.

I'm not sure with pop-up rigs whether that the fish suck the bait up at all, I think on many occasions that they pick it up, especially if it is higher off the lakebed. If it is very low and no more than a couple of centimetres off the lakebed then they may suck it as if they are sucking and blowing the rest of their food. If they are picking it up, then that blob of putty may not cause any problems as the fish take the bait anyway, and the hook hopefully take instant hold, especially with pop-ups with the hookbait tight to the shank. If they are picking the bait up and it is a bottom bait, then that putty may cause no problems. However if the fish are suckers and blowers then the putty may cause problems for the hook to even move off the lakebed towards the fishes mouth. I hope that makes sense, but you have to decide whether the fish you are after in the lake you are fishing are "suckers and blowers" or "pick up" feeders, or if the addition of putty to the rig rig will make a difference in the area or spot you are fishing as fish may have different preferences dependant on whether they are feeding over silt or gravel, or other harder bottoms.

Nick, do you ever find your controller flys back on the cast? I used to use a similar presentation but the controller flew back on the cast and the swivel started to weigh the hooklink down, thus dragging the bait closer to the float. Since then I have been using a rubber bead behind the float to hold it in place. The controller is firmly attached onto the tail rubber by the size of the swivel eye in the controller itself, it doesn't come off it, and the tail rubber sits on the hooklink swivel tightly.

If you want to find the actual depth of the silt, try tying a length of wool up your line from your lead towards your marker float. It may sit at a slight angle in the water, but the wool will take on the silt colour if it sinks into it. BINGO, rough idea of actual silt depth. 1 or 1.5oz lead should be able to get out to 50metres or so. I believe Moorsey uses 1.5oz at close on 100metres if he needs to fish that far out and casts it out.

Looks like the original D-rig going back up the hooklink line. The shrink tubing tidies it up very well. I used to do the same sort of thing, only using cotton or whipping thread to hold the tag end in place and the tag end of the whipping went under the "body" and was then cut very close. A drop of melted candle was used and held it in place quite nicely, although that way was very fiddly to do.

For years I've used various dog biscuits as my freebies, but occasionally the hookbait has been a bit of cork, or a fake dog biscuit. If the carp are feeding confidently enough they take everything as they mooch and munch around the area. At the moment I use Bakers Complete Dog biscuits as my bait, its very rare for me to use the big cubed meaty chunks as freebies, but often do as my hookbait. Its the same as bottom fishing. You may feed with pellets, particles or groundbait (stick, method or spod mix), yet your hookbait is often a boilie or the current fashion, a piece of fake plastic corn . Surface fishing is the same.

Yes Zig bugs do work as surface baits, at least the last 20lb carp I landed took one, and I also lost one that took another. Get the fish feeding confidently and they will take almost everything on the surface in the area.

Thanks for the comments Gentlemen,and I appreciate the chance to contribute to threads like this I dont know Nick personally,but I asked for his opinion on Pro-Carp because he seems to know what he's talking about regarding Carp gear,and has used a popular economical line for years.He ties a good knot and I hope He likes the line after a thorough testing. Pro-Carp and Gt80+ are based on a copolymer,which we have used for many years with some slight adjustments to help sink rate ,but not at the expense of casting performance. Lewis Read deserves a mention for developing these lines,and I confirmed his results with knot and abrasion tests. We are both responsible for any complaints---That keeps us on our toes. As I mentioned on the first post on this line I have only used the line to test it. However, it has made it onto my reel spools as I know I mentioned about the slightly smaller spool quantity than I would have liked to fill my reels to the brim. If I didn't like it, it would have gone into the bin, as a few other lines have gone that way in the past. Get a spool, it doesn't do what I think it should do, so it gets binned, or given to someone who is happy to accept my handoffs . I'd much rather spend money on what I know works rather than what may or may not work, so nearly all of my tackle gets tested thoroughly before being used in an actual fishing situation. (I think the only exception to this is leads). As for the knots, when I did the breaking strain tests I used a Uni knot (my standard fishing knot); however just to be sure in my own mind using some shorter lengths I have tied a few other knots in the line, and it holds well. Uni, Blood and Palomar knots haven't given way when tied to swivel and hook and pulled hard as you would (or should) test a hooklink. I have not found many lines that will take various knots and still work. I don't use Superglue on any knot I tie, every knot is just the knot holding the tackle together I'm currently juggling life again so I can get some fishing time in, but I have a distinct feeling that Pro-Carp is likely to be my choice of mainline from now on.

Only when all the slack is taken up. I fish my indicators at maximum drop, or resting on the ground. I use running rigs over groundbait (which I think is creating the same effect as particles), where the carp are just hoovering up the whole lot as they "graze" along the lakebed, and where I am fishing with scattered baits, stringers and bags and have not noticed any problems. In respect to when all the slack is taken up surely then slack lines would give worse indication? If a fish picks up you're bait and pulls 2 inches of line through your leads run rig does your alarm beep and your bobbin move? I believe it does, which is resistance, causing the bolt effect. Imagine a slack line running through a tube, you can pull it quite easily, the water acts in this way, as a tube, so there is minimal resistance. The indicator lifts up easily with the slack line. I think the only resistance is when the slack line has been taken up and is now pulling tight Now try a tight line cutting through the water, whichever way it moves there is resistance.

I must admit that I avoided GR60, for its breaking strain it was a very thick line (15lb was 0.40mm I think from memory), and compared to some other lines was expensive. With the price of the Pro-Carp I'm a lot happier putting my money that way now