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Quick night on the local day ticket on Friday. Managed to get on them easily enough but a bit disappointed to just catch the one. I put a bucket of bait out about 30 yards in front of me and got continuous liners on it from about 9pm until 3am. Bizarrely, the only rod to go was the one chucked under the bush in the near margin. I can only assume my hinges were not the one..... should have put bottom baits out. Still, better than a blank and a very pretty little patchy common. I'll not get out again until the end of June which is a killer.

Exactly..... I'm a hero really 😁

When I reached the age of 70 I thought I'd better start acting like a grown up. Didn't like it so I've gone back to being a pillock. Far happier now. Ian.

"Not only is the effect the same, the products you mentioned are more or less hydrolysates" Oh dear, you really need to be right if you do want to try to make a point. If you really want to get in an argument I will wear you down with facts, and be correct with my facts, which sadly yours are not. I can get my data from the original research I did years ago, quite frequently back in the early 2000's when I was working with bait manufacturers. (Some of the references and sources are listed) The oat milk research was when I was working in the catering industry as we had to do full allergen test and have full data sheet to hand. Also standard oat milk will not produce a cappuccino with much 'body', you won't get ⅓coffee, ⅓milk and ⅓froth, you'll get a milky coffee, almost identical to a latte. So far I have shown many of your arguments as incorrect, and instead of 'cherry picking' and missing words out like you. (You were close on Nutramino) You missed a bit: Hydrolysates are simply formed by adding water, adding an enzyme, or acid to create a smaller particle. I do mention adding an enzyme or acid, which you ignored. Yes, commercially produced oat milk is a carbohydrate hydrolysate. (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10534225/) During manufacturing, oat flour and water are combined and treated with natural food-grade enzymes (like amylases). This enzymatic hydrolysis process breaks down the oats' dense, gritty starches into smaller, sweeter, and highly soluble simple sugars (like maltose and glucose) This controlled hydrolysis serves three critical purposes: Texture & Creaminess: It prevents the oat starch from turning into a thick, gummy paste and ensures a smooth, milky liquid. Natural Sweetness: It breaks down starches to naturally sweeten the beverage without requiring the addition of processed sugars. Ingredient Labelling: Because the starches are broken down intentionally to sweeten and smooth the drink, labels will often list "hydrolyzed oats" in the ingredients. Multimino is a form of pre-digested liquid food. However, instead of being a traditional animal-protein hydrolysate, it functions as an amino-acid-rich syrup based on Phosphorylcolamine (PPC) and natural extracts. How it works: Because the protein chains are already broken down, this highly water-soluble syrup is considered "pre-digested," making it extremely easy for fish to digest and absorb. Ingredients: It is traditionally a blend of PPC, predigested liver extracts, spleen extract, fruit extracts, and natural sweeteners. Difference from Hydrolysates: While pure hydrolysates (like Salmon Hydrolysate) are the direct breakdown products of whole animal flesh, Multimino is a specialized medical-grade nutrient supplement that provides a similar profile of free-form amino acids. Nutrabaits Nutramino is essentially a human-food-grade pre-digested liquid food. While Nutrabaits sometimes uses the term "pre-digested," the process of breaking down complex proteins (like liver, spleen, and gastric mucosa) into highly absorbable, free-form amino acids is exactly what enzymatic hydrolysis entails. Because it mimics a pre-hydrolyzed or pre-broken-down protein source, it gives carp an irresistible and instantly digestible amino-acid profile. Standard corn steep liquor (CSL) is not naturally classified as a hydrolysate. It is instead the raw, concentrated liquid byproduct of the wet-milling process, generated by soaking corn kernels in water and sulfur dioxide. Liquid Yeast is an interesting one, it is actually the soluble liquid left behind after the hydrolysate has been removed. This is used as a flavor enhancer (like Marmite or Vegemite) or as a nutrient for cell cultures. Active Liquid Yeast: This refers to intact, living yeast cells used in baking or brewing. This is not a hydrolysate.

Cup half full , Yonny . You know that the Carp are going to start spawning soon ( in some places they have already had a go ) , and then they will need a rest to recover . So you are selflessly waiting until the end of June before you fish next . 😁

Another afternoon on my local park lake and 8 fish up to 18-4 chalked up. It's not the most difficult lake in the world but it's nice to have a confidence boost to compensate for a run of blanks on other waters. I was sending the boat out to the far bank tree line with a combination of boilies, pellets and crumb and topping up every hour and the fish certainly responded to the bait. I did chuck a little bit of crumb in the margins to see how it descended through the water column as I was worried it might be spreading out too far. A few hours later I saw a fish over the bait and it dropped down on it with it's tail waggling clear of the water as it mopped it up. Needless to say, my confidence on adding it to my baiting up has gone through the roof!

I have to agree with your take on the bailiffs at Horseshoe. They seem to revel in being important, some to a greater degree than others. I've fished the water on many occasions but never really felt welcome there. Ian.

Dumbbell boilies? Mixers for surface fishing? Circle punched meat or pepperami?

I had a visit from the EA about a month ago on a commercial miles out in the sticks, the first time I've seen them in over 30 years. At least a few years ago you used to get a printed licence with a David Miller painting that softened the blow a bit, now it's all done virtually. Mind you, the state of the Royal Mail, it probably wouldn't have turned up anyway!

I spent some time on there late 80's, flitting between summer and winter bays, the attached photo was summer point, this was also when I became aware of tiger nut's, having been mostly using chick peas until then, the carp went mad for tigers so I made the most of it, getting hold of them wasn't easy though, a non fishing shop in Swindon refused to sell any to me as they knew I was using them as bait..! Good times then though, I seem to remember some of the guys talking about an angler there fishing the winter bay near all the snags (now long gone) called John Allen, who'd recently had that 200lb cat from the Ebro..

What a session. Well done to the lad. Yesterday I went for a walk around a water on which I have a ticket starting in June. It's an awesome place, nearly 90 acres of water in a massive nature reserve/SSSI/SPA. A proper big pit with everything that you could hope to see..... bays, islands, snaggy margins, massive sheets of water that go on forever, a really impressive place. I actually fished this water ~25 years ago when I was completely out of my depth. I caught one carp, to this day one of the best I've caught. Would you believe it..... I walked into the swim I caught from all those years ago, and there were loads of gulls diving on a huge hatch. I persuaded the Mrs and kids to stop for 5 mins so I could check it out. Straight away I spotted the carp popping there heads out feeding on this hatch, well within casting distance too. All that water and I found them straight away. Couldn't believe it. Law of the sod dictates I'll not find another chance like that once my ticket starts but it certainly got the blood flowing ready for June!

And here you have raised very pertinent additional points. Any ingredient in a boilie is denatured, or liquids evaporate as they are boiled, less so if they are steamed. By denature, the food value is reduced, the protein level is lowered, and enzymes 'killed', even vitamins and minerals are reduced, especially those on the outside skin of the boilie. The inside of the bait may still not be 'cooked' on short boiling times*, as the full temperature takes time to get to the middle. So the only part of the boilie that still contains fully effective or as you nicely describe it, beneficial effects is the middle. The best way to get these liquids to continue working effectively is to soak or glug the baits after boiling. You can add these liquids to your spod mix, your particles, your powdered groundbait, your pellets. I don't know if anyone remembers the days of the CarpWorld/Nutrabaits Lac Fishabil trips, but Bill Cottams favourite mix I think was a bucket of birdfood, boilies crushed and whole with added Nutramino, Multimino PPc and condensed milk. This is where you have different effects in water, the solubility of the liquid, how it mixes in the lake. Some liquids will spread out across the lakebed, others will cloud lakebed to surface. The 'hope' is that the carp will follow the reverse track of the water current if any down to the source, and it creates a spot to investigate. *My aim when making my own bait was to have a solid skin, but a paste middle.

Oh and there's some good discussion here so let's keep it going and keep it friendly, unlike the other forum where you get banned for simply thinking out loud lol..

I know there are a few bikers here so thought i would start a biker chat. Would be good to see your bikes (past and present) also any pics of tours, meet ups etc. I will start with my Triumph Street Triple, loaded for last years trip to the IOM TT.

That was summer 89 I think; no bans for anything then, you had to buy a ticket at the post office in Lechlade to fish, £7.50 a day or £25 a week seems to come to mind.. That 200lb cat actually was from Cassien not the Ebro I remembered after posting above; one of the fist massive cats caught by an English angler at the time. Nowadays it has obviously changed a lot, like everywhere has, it is still a nice place to hand out fore a few days when not too busy..

That's the problem these days; and partly why I no longer have any fast bikes, certainly in the SE of the country anyway, way too many cameras etc, you just can't enjoy riding freely much without doing track days..

And my old GS1000HC this was my last bike, had 1100 big bore kit yoshi cams harris 4 into 1 full race pipe

That was the swim that many years ago I think it was Mike Winstone and another bloke won one of the first 'Carp matches' held there, using PVA mesh bags of pellets? I actually thought Tiger nuts were banned at the time on HorseShoe but might be wrong? Anyway, I used to concentrate my efforts on Winter bay, winter point and disabled swim and the middle road bank swims were good. Not sure what the place is like now, and sounds so anti what it was set up to be, obviously cannot turn the clock back but early days were actually a very special time imo Best times were before the flying rats arrived and those carp could be caught so easy on mixers very early morning when the big group of carp moved into winter bay

You are missing the point, it does not need hydrolysates to have a 'controlled breakdown', to enable protein to be more easily digested, or solubility and leakage. Absolutely everything you have put down about free amino acids and peptides does not require hydrolysates. That was accomplished for years with Multimino, Nutramino, Minamino and various other brand names, Corn Steep Liquor and Liquid Yeast or other ingredients. Soaking and glugging baits after boiling in them did exactly the same thing. They could also be mixed in with the base mix. The effects are the same. Hydrolysates are simply formed by adding water, adding an enzyme, or acid to create a smaller particle. A basic hydrolysate is oat milk!

Bet you they do😉 If you put a flavour in a bait, it has the base solvent, which is in many cases a preservative. If you put in a powdered ingredient, it likely contains either an anti-caking agent, or an ingredient to slow down or prevent it going rancid, they are preservatives. Even basic sugar and salt are forms of preservative. Actually it is, to quote myself "Hydrolysate is a posh way of saying more digestible or usable protein". If you copy my statement above, go to Google and then type in 'is' followed by pasting my wording above you will get the answer "Yes, basically it is", and then a scientific process review. I would not have said it without knowing what I was saying, and buzzwords get put into baitmaking just like in convincing humans that isotonic, hydrolysates, are better for you than a standard diet. However, for the average person, regular protein is digested and used just fine. Hydrolysates often come with a much higher price tag, so you are mostly paying for the speed of absorption rather than a magical increase in overall nutritional quality. Then you have potential side effects of hydrolysates, poor palatibility, bloating, gas, diarrhoea or constipation and funnily enough, many contain preservatives, sugar alcohols, thickening ingredients and artificial sweeteners.

Or a quick way to empty your pocket.

Not necessarily. Even soaking and boiling is releasing attractors, additional fermentation of particles releases hydrolysates. Aging certain beef cuts, steaks, increases the utilisation of the available protein. Hydrolysate is a posh way of saying more digestible or usable protein, and can refer to meat, seeds, beans, legumes. Soaking and boiling hemp is doing just that. In fact while hemp is edible 'raw', it is more attractive when heated and oils are released. Even plain crushed hemp is more attractive after boiling water is poured over it.

As some of you know I've inherited a koi pond after the purchase of a new home. It's not your average garden pond... in fact it's pushing 7000 gallons. Quite an installation I tell thee. It holds 16 koi to nearly 30lb, and 1 albino grass carp which is also a biggun. I'm considering doing a diary of sorts on here to document my journey keeping koi. I'd talk about the set up, any changes, and more importantly the kippers and their condition and growth. Obviously I know a thing or 2 about carp but I'm a complete newbie to ponds so it could be interesting to share in the fun of it all, as well as the blood, sweat and tears that are bound to manifest!

We have a cat. She sits on the side of the pond watching the fish, she loves it. This keeps all the other pests like birds away. I have a fake heron next to my smaller goldfish pond, wouldn't recommend it. The cat couldn't care less about it and I suspect none would. We had a heron visiting this pond despite the plastic one, but not seen it for months now.

No sign of cats, or birds? Ive got both. Luckily not a heron, but a magpie (which have fairly large beaks I've noticed) I nearly got a fake heron, but wondered how long that would deter the cats. The hexagons do keep the food in the middle, they're not ideal, but dont fancy having a net.

I get your point, but this a bit like shouting 'I LIKE CHOCOLATE MILK' when people are discussing wines.

My pond is raised with a good drop to the surface so not accessible for pests (and so far no issues with herons either). You could try a feeding ring which would keep food away from the edges but the koi might take a while to get used to it. The floating hexagons might work if they keep food away from the edges. It is defo worth keeping pests away. If they come to the pond to feed they'll end up pooing in the pond and that can introduce parasites.

How do you keep pests out? Ie. Cats, birds and the like. Ive noticed a few animals that'd take them given half a chance. Im trying these floating hexagons

Persevere. Koi will generally be slow to accept any new foods (although mine loved boilies straight away too 😅). Once they're used to it, they'll be fine. I chatted with a koi keeping mate about my koi's reluctance to eat the dried shrimp/silkworm and he said they'd take a while to get onto it. They have done now... they love them all of a sudden.

I remember baulking at 20 quid..... then 30...... I agree 40 notes just disappears as soon as you walk into the tackle shop.

I had no bass, but 11 doggies on Friday night. Mine are Daiwa 7HT's on a 12ft6in Daiwa Sandstorm and a 12ft6in Daiwa SeaHunter Z.

something a bit different, Leeda Icon Elite Match rods and Daiwa 7HT multipliers, hunting bass at 5am! had a nice brace of bass, best going 4lb. (3 doggies too 🙄)

Can always use the pellet band a tight hair as well so use anything pull it through the bait and use a piece of grass as a stop not a fool proof method but if something turns up in the swim it’s quickly doable.

If they had spawned and dropped a bit you know that you can trust his estimates on fish sizes in the water. I have seen the stress of a carp with the blood vessels and blood pressure increasing after capture. I don't know if you can remember it the 29lb fish I had from the syndicate has a 'birthmark' of blood vessels near the pectoral and right gill, it goes red during capture and stress. I've seen it in other fish as well.

I made the standard anglers mistake of going into Birds tackle shop today, ended up spending £40 on bits, more Gardner Incizors, Running lead systems, quick lead clips, another pair of forceps, a few Sea fishing hooks, squid and crushed hemp. I really should make a list of stuff I need rather than trying to remember my way round fresh and saltwater tackle boxes. It looks like the standard tackle shop spend is now £40 for 'odds and sods'.

I told you why it was removed:

Something needs to be put in place, the spam is getting pretty bad

Ha, thanks, I guess there's different levels of grown up

Yes it didn't link to any hydrolysates link, it was a 'rant' by someone about people copying their bait. Now hydrolysates are actually fairly easy to use, and many people can use bait that is effectively breaking itself down without realising it. I think it is in the Specialised hookbait thread, where I mention efflorescence, the enzymes, salts and sugars coming to the surface of baits

grown up !!!

I might be mistaken, but think one of your original posts on here was deleted? Anyway, I have wasted a bit of time earlier looking into hydrolsates, seems too much faffing about and can't be bothered with it. God knows what the fish one smells like!!! Seems like there is nothing new anymore in the 'bait war' trends, will younger carpers actually do this... of course not. As a property program said ages ago, it's all about 'location, location, location' 👍 Tight lines to all, hopefully I will get on bank when my club lake reopens after spawning is done 👍

Wrong forum lol

On Saturday we got the koi out one by one to measure them (koi size tends to be expressed in length (cm) rather than weight which I struggle to get me head around!). We have 4 over 70cm, biggest 75, 5 x 60s, 5 x 50s, 4 x 40s and a couple at 39 cm. Weight wise, 31 and 30 lb are the biggest. It was actually a bit of a stressful operation. When you net the white ones you can see them going pink as the blood vessels expand with stress. This just makes you want to get them back as quick as possible. Obviously you don't see that when you catch a normal carp as their colour hides the pinkness. The koi are in a right mood after the ordeal. They're feeding but nowhere near as well as they were. I even bought them a load of dried shrimp/silkworm as a treat and even that stuff's not getting them excited. I suspect it'll take a few days for them to get over it properly.

I used to fish some of the South Cerney waters many years, mainly Ham Pool, Bradley's and Hill's for the tench before Watermark took the last two over. The Bailiff they had then was a annoying old curmudgeon and he used to check my ticket every single time I was there. I think it was a 2 rod rule then and I had an old pike rod set up with Heath Robinson spod made out of an old washing up bottle. The good old days, if you wanted something, you had to make it, not like the kids of today........(better stop there, I'm sounding like one myself!) After he checked my ticket, he shouted that it was a 2 rod rule and so I fired back at him that it was a spod rod and he turned away laughing to himself - the old [censored] got me! One day when he was in a more agreeable mood he told me a funny story. At Ham Pool there was a club house and bar and it included a fruit machine and one of his jobs was to empty the cash from it. You could buy day tickets on the bank then and for juniors it was £1 in advance or £2 on the bank - I did say it was a long time ago! Anyway he came across 2 lads and they came out with the old "I've only got a £50 note trick". Quick as a flash, he went to his van and dumped £46 in pound coins on them! I bet they didn't try that again!

My Scrambler will be my last bike... I'm 66 in a few weeks so I'll have this one a while till my back says "beggar off, yer done sunshine"...🤣

Here's my old girl cbr600fn 1992, I've had her 11 years now and I wouldn't dream of parting with her.

Me new Scrambler... A hoot...😉

Me bobber... (Shudders...🥴)

My old Thunderbird sport...

no i bought it as is, no longer have it as due to divorce some time ago i ended up having to sell it on