Hook sizes

[Juan pablo]

so by trial n error, i started off with size 2 n 4 hooks...now i'm down to 6-8 I'm catching and hooking more carp then ever. I have noticed when I"m using a smaller size i'm losing fish especially 8 and 10s.

Also what rigs can i make with size 10 other than hair rig?

[Carpbell3]

Depends what line you use you can tie a multi rig easy enough you will need to use a much finer line for the hook length as the eye of the hook will be smaller considerably so once you get above a size eight hook. Then you have the TC of the rod, a heavy rod anything above 2.50 test will always lose more fish than land using small hooks.

[framey]

Put a half inch #6 screwinto a piece of 4x2 wood and see how easy it pulls out 

then Try that with a 11/2 #10 screw 

[salokcinnodrog]

16 hours ago, Juan pablo said:

so by trial n error, i started off with size 2 n 4 hooks...now i'm down to 6-8 I'm catching and hooking more carp then ever. I have noticed when I"m using a smaller size i'm losing fish especially 8 and 10s.

Also what rigs can i make with size 10 other than hair rig?

Say you are using metal sizes, in engineering I think called a 'gauge". The higher the number, the finer or thinner the gauge.

A size 10 hook may be made with 18 gauge material, but a size 6 or 8 is made from 14 or 16 gauge wire.

Now think about the fight of the fish, by putting pressure on the hook, you are 'trying' to straighten or break it. A finer gauge wire or hook is more prone to straightening than a heavier gauge. It may have the elasticity to return to shape after the fish has gotten off, or it may not; if it has sprung back into shape you may not notice the problem.

Then think about other issues, a small hook in a big mouth, less weight, or mass, more easily blown out. The bigger hook is more likely to get a point into a piece of flesh.

Plus you have as @Carpbell3 has said. Yet with a smaller hook, a size 10 can land a big carp when on say a 1½lb test curve rod.

8 hours ago, Carpbell3 said:

Depends what line you use you can tie a multi rig easy enough you will need to use a much finer line for the hook length as the eye of the hook will be smaller considerably so once you get above a size eight hook. Then you have the TC of the rod, a heavy rod anything above 2.50 test will always lose more fish than land using small hooks.

I actually use size 10 hooks for floater fishing, a dog biscuit fixed to the shank of the hook by a loop or tying the hook on with a knotless knot after creating the loop so the dog biscuit is tight to the hook.

[yonny]

14 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

A finer gauge wire or hook is more prone to straightening than a heavier gauge. It may have the elasticity to return to shape after the fish has gotten off, or it may not; if it has sprung back into shape you may not notice the problem.

That's not accurate.

Hooks are made from high carbon steels and heat treated (sometimes referred to as spring steels). While it's true that a finer gauge wire or hook is more prone to straightening (obviously), elasticity (or Youngs Modulus of elasticity to be precise) is a physical characteristic of steel - there is no 'may' about it. A hook is essentially a spring - it is critical that it can flex during the fight (this is known as elastic deformation), otherwise it would just snap because it would be too brittle to deal with the loads applied to the steel. However, it's not possible for the hook to flex to the point of straightening without the yield strength of the steel being exceeded. The yield strength is the point at which the steel deforms under load permanently (this is known as plastic deformation).

So yes, a hook flexes (to a point) but no, a hook cannot straighten and then spring back into shape. The physical properties of spring steel do not allow it.

If a hook straightens, you know about it.

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, yonny said:

That's not accurate.

Hooks are made from high carbon steels and heat treated (sometimes referred to as spring steels). While it's true that a finer gauge wire or hook is more prone to straightening (obviously), elasticity (or Youngs Modulus of elasticity to be precise) is a physical characteristic of steel - there is no 'may' about it. A hook is essentially a spring - it is critical that it can flex during the fight (this is known as elastic deformation), otherwise it would just snap because it would be too brittle to deal with the loads applied to the steel. However, it's not possible for the hook to flex to the point of straightening without the yield strength of the steel being exceeded. The yield strength is the point at which the steel deforms under load permanently (this is known as plastic deformation).

So yes, a hook flexes (to a point) but no, a hook cannot straighten and then spring back into shape. The physical properties of spring steel do not allow it.

If a hook straightens, you know about it.

@yonny I did have a problem with a particular brand of hooks (model no longer available) that were opening out enough under pressure to straighten and spring back into shape. Maybe it was a particular batch of the Series 2 being faulty, but I did lose a couple of fish before I tested and changed from them, and have not used the brand since.

I have also had a few from other manufacturers that did just snap after snagging, at the point of the bend, or straighten out.

[yonny]

39 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I did have a problem with a particular brand of hooks (model no longer available) that were opening out enough under pressure to straighten and spring back into shape.

You're mistaken Nick. The laws of physics prevent this. There is no mechanism that makes it physically possible. I was the Manager of every lab and quality function in Europe for one of the worlds biggest metal-forming and heat-treating organisations in the world for 17 years. So I know this.

Modulus of elasticity of steel is a constant. It is slightly different for different grades of steel but all in the same range. It is a physical property of steel that can only be altered by heat treatments:

- Under-treated steel has a lower yield point so the hook will be subject to plastic deformation more readily, making it impossible for a hook to regain shape after straightening.

Over-treated steel will lead to embrittlement which means tensile strength will be exceeded more readily (which means a snapped hook). Again, impossible.

There is no characteristic in steel that can feasibly vary from batch to batch that can result in the phenomenon you think you saw. 

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I have also had a few from other manufacturers that did just snap after snagging, at the point of the bend, or straighten out.

Perfectly feasible and I expect most seasoned anglers will have seen this at some point. But a hook straightening out and springing back into shape is not possible.