Turning standard pop ups into wafters with excessive boosting

[elmoputney]

Hi guys 

I have been thinking of ways to improve my hookbaits this evening, at present I am favouring a wafter but I want to make some really kicking boosted ones, but I thought adding loads to my std wafters may just make them bottom baits so I have arrived at trying to make the standard pop ups(not cork or anything) into wafters by adding glugs and powder additives and air drying and repeating the process a bit until they aren't as bouyant will this work ? In my head it does

[yonny]

It'll work but you'll need some pretty poor pop ups for it to work in the next 12 months bud. You're better off getting some big wafters (20 mm or so), glugging them up and cutting them down to suit imo.

Wafters are so variable I don't think you can plan for the correct buoyancy without adjusting to suit the specific rig/hook etc. 

[elmoputney]

Cheers Yonny 

I will try and boost some of the wafters as well 16mm and see what happens, I did order some baitworks wafters and pop ups scent from hell range as well last night to give me some other options, I've found as long as I use a mesh bag or rig foam they tend to come in ok so far but I just want the hookbaits to stand out more in the silt, 

The other thing that clicked last night was I got a lot of liners on my far bank rods I think fishing closer and slacker may be the answer will certainly help as the fish seem spooky, I'm getting closer just need to keep learning

[salokcinnodrog]

14 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Hi guys 

I have been thinking of ways to improve my hookbaits this evening, at present I am favouring a wafter but I want to make some really kicking boosted ones, but I thought adding loads to my std wafters may just make them bottom baits so I have arrived at trying to make the standard pop ups(not cork or anything) into wafters by adding glugs and powder additives and air drying and repeating the process a bit until they aren't as bouyant will this work ? In my head it does

It took me around 3months to get my pop-ups to sink, constantly replacing/refilling the bait soak. Using Glycerine as much as 50% of the soak they also became rock hard. You could possibly speed it up by the Expander pellet method? Might be worth a try...

 

I do also long term soak bottom baits if I am fishing silty areas, or for quick pick-ups. Even gravel often has a layer of silt on top of it.

Thinking back, my pb river carp came on long term soaked bottom baits, and that was only in the water for around 30minutes. I could have been lucky that they were around, but I think that the current took some of the 'flavour' downstream as my mate had seen them swim upstream past him, avoiding a gravel bar that was a usual feeding spot.

 

Something else I do, with both bottom baits and pop-ups is glug and dry, glug and dry baits, but again unless you do it for a long time continuously (*continually(?), they will in case of pop-ups still float.

[elmoputney]

Thanks nick 

I have been pre baiting with a glugged spod mix including boilies, my thinking being they are getting rehydrated before they hit the water by the munga juice and liquids I am adding, I will have a play with a few hookbaits tonight and see what happens 

[elmoputney]

Let's see what happens with those these then 

[salokcinnodrog]

6 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Thanks nick 

I have been pre baiting with a glugged spod mix including boilies, my thinking being they are getting rehydrated before they hit the water by the munga juice and liquids I am adding, I will have a play with a few hookbaits tonight and see what happens 

If you need to harden them use glycerine in the bait soak.

 

Something I did long before the Kevin Nash baits was 'wash' my dried boilies in egg, with mixed in Betaine, then roll them in base mix.

 

You could try mixing glycerine in with the egg, then rolling them in base mix. You should get a dissolving outer layer, with a harder inner boilie.

[elmoputney]

I've just added robin red , glm ,betaine milk b+ and glugged in robin red liquid will let that lot soak in then dry them and repeat I think, 

Although I will be testing some this weekend but it can be an ongoing project, they will at least be boosted 

[carpepecheur]

I have read this thread with interest. May I suggest that there is one variable which has been ignored and that is the effect of water depth? If I understand the requirements of the op correctly he wants to make a boilie to be only just buoyant. If so you should design the boilie to be the required buoyancy at the depth you intend to fish the bait.

The deeper the water the less buoyant your bait will be. I did some tests some years ago and made a very poor quality recording of my experiment. However it will demonstrate the point I am making.

 

[yonny]

Good info ref depth/water pressure here too:

https://www.properjobpopups.co.uk/water_pressure.php

[carpepecheur]

Yes very good info but if you want to make and test your own boilies, not everyone has access to a pressure vessel. However with a bit of imagination and the junk found in the average garden shed you can do the required tests.

[yonny]

In the UK there really is no need to tailor your hookbaits to specific depths imo. There are a few waters that might warrant it (Bundy's etc).

But it's good to understand the principles all the same.

[carpepecheur]

You make a good point Yonny. I must confess I am more interested in the academics of the idea than any practical use. Having said that I usually fish in depths of 7 to 10 metres so the idea does have relevance.

 

Another question has popped into my head. Are pop ups more attractive to fish at some depths more than others? I would hazard a guess that they would be more attractive in shallower water but have no data to back up that thought.

[yonny]

7 minutes ago, carpepecheur said:

Are pop ups more attractive to fish at some depths more than others? I would hazard a guess that they would be more attractive in shallower water

Interesting. What are your thoughts behind that buddy?

I am of the opinion that if you can create a feeding situation effectively the hookbait isn't that important. As long as it's presented you'll get takes. It's creating that feeding situation that's the challenge.

[carpepecheur]

It is some years since I experimented with pop ups and never really found them more successful than bottom baits. That may be because I fish relatively deep water (7 to 10 metres).

 

I can imagine that natural food which does waft around in shallow water will sit flat on the bottom at greater depth due to its reduced buoyancy so fish expect stuff to waft around at shallow depths and not at greater depths. However, as I said, this is pure speculation.

 

I totally agree about creating a feeding situation. My most successful technique is heavy and prolonged pre-baiting with a single bait usually either maize or VERY cheap boilies. Fortunately hardly anyone else fishes the places I do so I do not have to worry about other anglers cashing in on my hard work.

[emmcee]

11 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I've just added robin red , glm ,betaine milk b+ and glugged in robin red liquid will let that lot soak in then dry them and repeat I think, 

Although I will be testing some this weekend but it can be an ongoing project, they will at least be boosted 

Sometimes less is more,  just saying. All those mixed together could be a repellent.  Hope they work for you though 

[elmoputney]

Wow some great responses guys and water pressure isn't something I would have even considered tbh , the lake I fish is probably only 9ft in the deeper part though so good to know it shouldn't affect me too much, I am right with you on prebaited spots btw it's certainly my most successful method so far 

 

I would assume that a pop up would be more effective in shallower water as it would be more likely to be taken by a non feeding cruising fish if it got close enough to pique it's interest , and also it would be more likely to be sending food signals right through the water column, but mainly you have to think if you have a bowl of crisps right next to you when watching TV , you are more likely to eat those crisps than if you have to go to the shop to buy them first, 

I always usually like to match my hookbaits with my free offerings  emmcee however the lake I am fishing is really silty so I am just wondering whether a more blatant hookbait will get taken quicker and also take on less smelly silt, so in that respect I hope you are wrong but I take your point that it could create a negative taste using too many additives as one may overpower the whole package, I can only try something has to work at some point

 

 

[yonny]

1 hour ago, elmoputney said:

the lake I am fishing is really silty so I am just wondering whether a more blatant hookbait will get taken quicker and also take on less smelly silt

What I do when fishing silty waters is saturate my freebies in a mixture of water and liquid food i.e a hydroslate, this stops them taking on the silt. With those freebies comes the feeding situation (assuming they're put in the right place) which allows you to fish pretty much anything over the top.

Regards shallow/deep water and pop ups/bottom baits, I don't think it makes a difference. The buoyancy of a bait (be that highly buoyant or not buoyant at all) should imo be chosen the suit the rig that will present effectively in the given substrate i.e. bottom baits on a clean deck and pop ups over weed or chod with wafters somewhere in between. I use pop ups for 99% of my fishing as I prefer the mechanics of pop up rigs and tend to fish weedy waters.

[elmoputney]

Thanks again yonny , I've been using a lot of mixed particles lately as I went a bit nuts on deals with monster but I may just try a simple boilie approach if I get out this weekend  I will try soaking them all in water and liquid first and maybe just feed little and often and have a different hookbait on each rod to see if any work best, 

I think for me bottom baits are a non starter as I wouldn't be confident due to the silt /weed I've been happy with my wafter rig set up nice and simple and seems to come in clean often enough to be confident it's fishing most of the time and I will try one on a pop up as well so have it all covered now just got to find them ,feed them and not balls it up

[elmoputney]

After a couple of minutes in water the wafters are throwing loads of goodness into the water, that's got to send them wild I reckon 

[commonly]

Or give off a warning signal??? 

Just playing devil's advocate. 

I used to fish a silty water & found the lead set up to be just as important as the bait. I caught on bottom baits, snowman and pop ups. 

I used to soak my hookbaits in Betalin, and previously in other glugs. Although I have to say I did better with bait straight out the packet.

I'm now of the mind to keep things simple & am determined to be successful with zigs. On the quicky I did the other week (which was the silty WATER), I cast the rake out to the spot a good few times, within 20-30 mins I had fish showing on both spots!!! (I believe chillfactor advocated this approach a while back) I was gutted packing up early, I firmly believe if I'd done the night I would of had a few.  

That will be my preferred method for the rest of the year.

P. S. No glug etc. on the foam

[emmcee]

You've mentioned milky b, I use something similar within my bait if I'm on a silty water. I also use tangerine/orange oil as my flavour. This combo has done me very well on silty waters. 

That said my current bait which I've been on for a fair few years now and used it in very silty areas of my lakes has no flavour what so ever. Just a bit of food for thought . 

[elmoputney]

6 hours ago, commonly said:

Or give off a warning signal??? 

Just playing devil's advocate. 

I used to fish a silty water & found the lead set up to be just as important as the bait. I caught on bottom baits, snowman and pop ups. 

I used to soak my hookbaits in Betalin, and previously in other glugs. Although I have to say I did better with bait straight out the packet.

I'm now of the mind to keep things simple & am determined to be successful with zigs. On the quicky I did the other week (which was the silty WATER), I cast the rake out to the spot a good few times, within 20-30 mins I had fish showing on both spots!!! (I believe chillfactor advocated this approach a while back) I was gutted packing up early, I firmly believe if I'd done the night I would of had a few.  

That will be my preferred method for the rest of the year.

P. S. No glug etc. on the foam

Don't worry about playing devils advocate it's always good to see other people's opinions, I've been using the castable rake myself although generally more when prebaiting though maybe worth giving it a fresh rake at the start of a session as well to stir it up, good luck with the zigs though 

 

4 hours ago, emmcee said:

You've mentioned milky b, I use something similar within my bait if I'm on a silty water. I also use tangerine/orange oil as my flavour. This combo has done me very well on silty waters. 

That said my current bait which I've been on for a fair few years now and used it in very silty areas of my lakes has no flavour what so ever. Just a bit of food for thought . 

When I was making my own bait a while ago I bought some milky b from feed stim the smell of it is lovely so any chance to use it and I will , I've gone off bait making now though too much effort and too little time for me, plus there are lots of companies that do it better 

I think it's just a lack of confidence at present causing me to make changes once I get a fish or two in the net I can work on it from there 

 

[salokcinnodrog]

7 hours ago, emmcee said:

You've mentioned milky b, I use something similar within my bait if I'm on a silty water. I also use tangerine/orange oil as my flavour. This combo has done me very well on silty waters. 

That said my current bait which I've been on for a fair few years now and used it in very silty areas of my lakes has no flavour what so ever. Just a bit of food for thought . 

I honestly think that many flavours catch more anglers than fish, however there are some flavours that are genuine attractors or give a definite purpose. I have gone through both flavoured and unflavoured baits; some flavoured baits were not as effective as unflavoured baits, and some good unflavoured baits could be improved by adding a flavour or flavour and essential oil combination.

 

Most of The better flavours to my mind come from natural products, the fruit ester, essential oil or dried and concentrated natural product.

 

 

There are certain taste enhancers that give a definite edge to baits, Milk B+ was one, Nutrabaits followed this up with the Creamy Super Sweets, Cajoler and the Cajouser range. Sadly since Bill Cottam left I am not sure that things are all the same🙁🙄

 

 

I really would like to find it again, but years ago in a Bait * catalogue, I read about benefits of certain essential oils and their uses in the diet, and how they could work in baits.

 

 

* I am positive it was one of the original Nutrabaits Bait catalogues, but no-one seems to have a copy of that year, or can't find that article, even Ken Townley or Bill Cottam.

[elmoputney]

3 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I honestly think that many flavours catch more anglers than fish, however there are some flavours that are genuine attractors or give a definite purpose. I have gone through both flavoured and unflavoured baits; some flavoured baits were not as effective as unflavoured baits, and some good unflavoured baits could be improved by adding a flavour or flavour and essential oil combination.

 

Most of The better flavours to my mind come from natural products, the fruit ester, essential oil or dried and concentrated natural product.

 

 

There are certain taste enhancers that give a definite edge to baits, Milk B+ was one, Nutrabaits followed this up with the Creamy Super Sweets, Cajoler and the Cajouser range. Sadly since Bill Cottam left I am not sure that things are all the same🙁🙄

 

 

I really would like to find it again, but years ago in a Bait * catalogue, I read about benefits of certain essential oils and their uses in the diet, and how they could work in baits.

 

 

* I am positive it was one of the original Nutrabaits Bait catalogues, but no-one seems to have a copy of that year, or can't find that article, even Ken Townley or Bill Cottam.

Have you tried feed stims milk b+ , I found out about them from reading a ken Townley article on the haiths site he seems to like feed stim for his additives 👍