woodchester17 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 cant say ive ever used it but been reading a few articles on it. after some personal opinions on it. do you think its any better than a standard knotless knot?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 i cant get my head around how its any different to a standard knotless knot once in the fishes mouth....maybe with a stiff hair but not with limp braid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodchester17 Posted November 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 im with you on that. keep looking at pics of it and i cant see it being any better than standard knotless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 its because the angle the hook comes off of makes it drop into the bottom lip a lot easier. not that i have used it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 its because the angle the hook comes off of makes it drop into the bottom lip a lot easier. not that i have used it so is the kk less effectual ??? and could the same effect be gain by less turns on a kk??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Basicly it's the same as the old hair rig from the eye set up, nothing new there............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 beanz, i dont buy in to all the "new" rigs and "fancy" rigs so tbh i dont know if it is more affective or not because i dont use it. tbh though the aggressive angle of the hook looks like it would take hold of the bottom lip a lot easier than a normal kk when used for a pop up (which ultimately it was "designed" for) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmanstevo Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I use the kd for my snowman set ups and its allways done ok for me and there normally well hooked in the bottom lip Tied some up a few years ago and stuck with them ..... Don't know how much different they are to KK but it's done ok so I still use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthanphil Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 beanz, i dont buy in to all the "new" rigs and "fancy" rigs so tbh i dont know if it is more affective or not because i dont use it. tbh though the aggressive angle of the hook looks like it would take hold of the bottom lip a lot easier than a normal kk when used for a pop up (which ultimately it was "designed" for) Know what you mean, but I wouldn't exactly call the KD fancy. It's a very slight variation on a bog standard KK and can be very effective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 my problem i get get my head around is....when its blown out ,the hair is folded back over the same twisted line on the shank as it would be if its just a standard KK. the KD bit plays no part on ejection..........or does it???? educate me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 as the fish takes the bait and hook in, because the hook is already pointing down in quite an aggressive way it will (hopefully) already take hold onto the bottom lip (as long as you have a sharp hook) as i say though i dont use it because quite honestly i agree with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I believe the original intention was with the hair leaving after just a couple of twists of the KK and a critically balanced bait. Is the KD fashionable because of its supposed effectiveness, or because it has been renamed after Kenny Dorset? (it was first fished long before the current reinvention and re-naming in the magazines) Would getting the feeding "right" possibly with a bit more bait in the first place make the KK or basic hair rig as as effective? Or would a standard Knotless knotted hook work better if it was fished with a line aligner or shrink tube "kicker"? I've not used the KD rig in its current fashionable state, I have simply adapted the standard knotless knotted set-up, or used something totally different, by the amount fed so that I have gotten the fish feeding almost pre-occupied if possible. Or correctly, since I can't see the fish picking up (and likely ejecting) my hookbait in the middle of the pond, I have fed so that I get some takes that lead to proper runs and a hooked fish. That is not in the slightest to say that more advanced rigs don't work, but sometimes there is no reason to change rigs, when possibly getting the fish to feed more comfortably may be a better bet, and just changing the standard hair or rig length could be all it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 At the end of the day, rigs catch Carp, some more than outher! I use my own rig, I am no sheep, and my rig will hook a huge persentage, purely because it it so different! If the bait is taken then the spool starts spinning! The thing is that every single componant part has been thought through a 100 times, now that is a rig! If I get a beep, I know why, you must understand the mechanics! If my bobbin moves an inch, I know why! Deadly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 At the end of the day, rigs catch Carp, some more than outher! I use my own rig, I am no sheep, and my rig will hook a huge persentage, purely because it it so different! If the bait is taken then the spool starts spinning! The thing is that every single componant part has been thought through a 100 times, now that is a rig! If I get a beep, I know why, you must understand the mechanics! If my bobbin moves an inch, I know why! Deadly! Kev, lets have a look at this rig of yours then. Would be really interested to see it with the claims that it can't be ejected once the bait is taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 At the end of the day, rigs catch Carp, some more than outher! I use my own rig, I am no sheep, and my rig will hook a huge persentage, purely because it it so different! If the bait is taken then the spool starts spinning! The thing is that every single componant part has been thought through a 100 times, now that is a rig! If I get a beep, I know why, you must understand the mechanics! If my bobbin moves an inch, I know why! Deadly! Kev, lets have a look at this rig of yours then. Would be really interested to see it with the claims that it can't be ejected once the bait is taken. Nige to Quote Nick...................Use the search button Hahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Sorry Nige, I'm not being a pain, but these things were posted when I was in HK, different now I'm back, I'm sure you understand! Same as my hook baits, all posted on here, but no more, my inovation is for me, as I will be on some difficult waters in the spring, I do so hope that you understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigewoodcock Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Sorry Nige, I'm not being a pain, but these things were posted when I was in HK, different now I'm back, I'm sure you understand! Same as my hook baits, all posted on here, but no more, my inovation is for me, as I will be on some difficult waters in the spring, I do so hope that you understand? No worries Kev. Up to you if you want to share or not It's just that I can see how trying to blow a cocktail stick out of your mouth is difficult. But that also means sucking one in no handed would be of equal difficulty???! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keenook Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Sorry Nige, I'm not being a pain, but these things were posted when I was in HK, different now I'm back, I'm sure you understand! Same as my hook baits, all posted on here, but no more, my inovation is for me, as I will be on some difficult waters in the spring, I do so hope that you understand? No worries Kev. Up to you if you want to share or not It's just that I can see how trying to blow a cocktail stick out of your mouth is difficult. But that also means sucking one in no handed would be of equal difficulty???! No Nige, goes in easy Babe xxx As for sharing that was here years ago, sleeping and a waiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthanphil Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 as the fish takes the bait and hook in, because the hook is already pointing down in quite an aggressive way it will (hopefully) already take hold onto the bottom lip (as long as you have a sharp hook) as i say though i dont use it because quite honestly i agree with you It's also to do with that fact that when fishing a critically balanced bait, you're taking the weight away from the shank/eye of the hook and making the point the heaviest part - which as you say makes the point naturally point downwards. It's a rig that looks odd out of the water, but when you get how it works, is pretty clever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Nige to Quote Nick...................Use the search button Hahaha! oh ka-heeeev you know my thoughts on the search function ...93 pages! i going to have to pass on a 90% hook up rate unless......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garysj01 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 At the end of the day, rigs catch Carp, some more than outher! I use my own rig, I am no sheep, and my rig will hook a huge persentage, purely because it it so different! If the bait is taken then the spool starts spinning! The thing is that every single componant part has been thought through a 100 times, now that is a rig! If I get a beep, I know why, you must understand the mechanics! If my bobbin moves an inch, I know why! Deadly! Is this what your rig does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoogi Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 as the fish takes the bait and hook in, because the hook is already pointing down in quite an aggressive way it will (hopefully) already take hold onto the bottom lip (as long as you have a sharp hook) as i say though i dont use it because quite honestly i agree with you It's also to do with that fact that when fishing a critically balanced bait, you're taking the weight away from the shank/eye of the hook and making the point the heaviest part - which as you say makes the point naturally point downwards. It's a rig that looks odd out of the water, but when you get how it works, is pretty clever wouldnt just 2-3 turns on kk be the same...im yet to understand what the extra turns after the hair do??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liamclose Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Forget rigs location location location. What angle your hair leaves the hook should be the least of your worries if the fish are up the other end of the lake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthanphil Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 as the fish takes the bait and hook in, because the hook is already pointing down in quite an aggressive way it will (hopefully) already take hold onto the bottom lip (as long as you have a sharp hook) as i say though i dont use it because quite honestly i agree with you It's also to do with that fact that when fishing a critically balanced bait, you're taking the weight away from the shank/eye of the hook and making the point the heaviest part - which as you say makes the point naturally point downwards. It's a rig that looks odd out of the water, but when you get how it works, is pretty clever wouldnt just 2-3 turns on kk be the same...im yet to understand what the extra turns after the hair do??? As it's generally done with a soft material, that would quite possibly have the same effect! For some reason having that few turns down the shank would make me feel uneasy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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