hutch
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Posts posted by hutch
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Do you know exactly what goes into them?
Not personally but one of our members used to work on the site where the factory is located that the ready mades are produced, Im sure he will have a rough idea even if he doesn't publisize it
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Have my eyes gone funny.
QuoteNobody will ever come close to BB and Rod..
QuoteBait is BORING
Fishing is NOT about bait!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You've just said 1 of your fav writers is Rod (as is mine he was way ahead of his time) who's primary writings were about Bait and its application. I actually quite like Dave's writing style but thats down to personal choice.
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Go from there, make your own if you want, but respect Chilly, Lane etc. for they do not muck about.
Clearly haven't read Flick of the Tale, Dave actually says he doesn't know much about the make up of bait prefers to let someone else do that side for him as he is usually focused on other parts of his fishing. Chilly has stated that once he's out of the sponsored game he is going to write a book about all the behind the scenes stuff that goes on in the fishing industry. Both are great anglers though
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Plus Fairbrass and Hamidi use it, so:
Hmmm theres alot of rumours regarding Korda members going to baitworks due to bait quality issues (not my headline just whats circulating in the industry)
QuoteAs for the cell recipe, I shouldn't imagine it's much more than rapeseed meal, soya bean meal, micronised maize, copra meal, yeast and at a push some added lysine mega cheap and would work. Add a suitable angler friendly flavour, big names all over social media and voila, money machine.
Your not far wrong I don't think, and would reflect the listing on the bag. Maybe missing a bit of skimmed milk powder
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Activ 8
But that's just the liquids and doesn't explain the bulk of the bait, and it's Parma ham not boiled ham
No but close
If your using a bait that depends on its liquid profile, then that part needs to be very attractive. Parma Ham is no longer available Campbells discontinued it
but that did slot in the really good flavour band.
QuoteI tried an ''ultrabait'', it was from a super duper bait scientist, top secret old school ultra expensive mix
Who mentioned a good bait needs to be expensive, there are loads of great baits around the £6-7 a kilo mark some even less.
QuoteYou do NOT know the Cell recipe. If you do, prove it by sharing..
How many times its on the BAG!!!!!!!!!!!, they sell in europe therefore to meet regs for selling in the EU they have to list the ingredients.
QuoteMy experience of smaller bait companies is that they are all ''know alls'' who claim this, that and the other about the big names, one of them said that he was better as he used ''whole egg''.. and cited Dynamite for using powdered egg..
Nothing wrong with using whole egg powder, it sometimes used to aid quick attractor release and breakdown quite a few people use liquid egg. Used a lot by our friends on the continent in there baits.
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Wont say which product this is analysis of but its from a lab test on a big bait companies product
25g citric acid
50ml Water
15ml Boiled Ham
10ml Maple
5ml E422 (Glycerol)Close enough for me, quantity is based around he amount of liquid tested. And the guy who tested does lab testing for a living,
Cereals are bulking agents there is nothing in there nutritional profile a carp can process they simply do not have the requirements to do so, they are used in baits as they are cheap and although not directly bad for carp they just stinky winky it out because there is no gain in there.
Nearly every ingredient in use has come from animal/aquatic feeds industry these industries are heavily regulated by DEFRA and any item used in feeds has to have a detailed spec sheet produced detailing exactly what is in that ingredient and the process that's been used to create it. From these sheets you can tell whether an ingredient is useful for a bait or not.
QuoteSo you're barking up the wrong tree at an old boy who has heard it all before. Sorry if I sound like I'm overreacting but One thing I refuse to come on here for is people trying to shove their TRIPE opinions and easily swayed beliefs down my throat
CM is that you 😒
- Donnygooner and commonly
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You taking your tablets this morning Dez
Dont believe Vic stated what his ideal protein level is, I would guess its not above 50% as carp can only utilise around 38% in one passing, its not about protein % any way it about how well the fish can utilise the protein in a given product.
No one mentioned halibut pellets
QuoteAlso, you DON'T know what's in cell, mate, no scientific test can reveal the formula and all the ingredients
Its on the BAG!!!, lab analysis can tell exactly whats in a given product. oh and Vic's lab used to be at Sparsholt College
, before calling someone out do your ground work
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Funny how people like to aim their criticism at just about the three, or very near to it, best selling baits UK wide: being Cell, Manilla, and Scopex Squid or Key or whatever (Nash don't do many different ones anyway).
Ok lets phrase it another way, how much of that £10 per kilo your paying is actually the bait ? , the cost of the mix has to be offset by packaging, marketing, cost of manafacture, supplying consultants. Not much of a margin left. There are better baits developed by better bait brains out there for half the cost. Companies like Essential and ABS have been built by 2 of the best guys in the bait business but I haven't seen B5 at £10 a kilo
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You don't know what's in it, mate
Nobody does apart from Mainline management, I doubt even the floor staff know
Hope they don't read the bag ;), bait companies send each others products for lab testing all the time mate, please don't think they don't
QuotePersonally I have good results on it wherever I fish but then again I don't do long sessions or do a baiting campaign on one lake.
If it works for you and your confident in it and happy with the price keep going with it Mufty, if you move between several waters on short sessions it could work out well using that sort of bait.
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If it's only effective in the short term why does it still do so well?.
I really dont think it does, bites on my water have slowed right down, its designed attraction (its possible its an investigative trigger that it uses) will only appeal in the short term the base is minimal on the nutritional front but is digestable which might be another reason they keep picking it up, but they will soon work out there not gaining anything from eating it. That time frame though can vary from water type to water type, also how much of it a water is seeing might be a factor as well.
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He said he knows where you live mate he's here with me in the pub with Alan, Carl & Alex, Wislon etc.
Looks like you didn't get the invite Nige 😂
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So it's not rocket science to work out why it ''has its doubters''
Not rocket science but possible simple science which makes it effective in the short term as the base is nothing special.
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Lol ... I think Nash bait is pants too
😲😲Nige cover your eyes 😂😂
- chillfactor, yonny and nigewoodcock
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These types of rumours are always very ambiguous mate
Sometimes they are mate, but when some one knows some of the elements in the equation quite well your salt in take can be reduced
Quotesoya and semolina (which happens to be the number one carp catching basemix of all time!
Semolina is a [censored] for then to process as they can't absorb anything from complex carbs, makes a good binder though. Errr not sure about your last bit mate
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with people in the trade not wanting there name associated with there bait & these are people behind the recipes
Not the first time I have seen mentions of bait company loosing some important people recently, last time they didn't name the company but did say some of the folk had gone to baitworks.
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They are a superb bait company and one of the most responsible around, the products get tested, re-tested, tested again, and then five more times for luck, they use ingredients which have been going into lakes for decades as well as some new forms of completely kosher vegetable derived proteins that they keep to themselves (as do Mainline, the Cell is also a vegetarian bait, as is Hybrid)
Just me mate there are no super hidden ingredients in the bait industry most are from the animal feed market, and there are no super veg protein ingredients in use (but there are a couple of good ones), Cell is mainly cereal meal the rest can be guessed as the ingredients are on the bag. Sticky are better at what they do for my money.
QuoteSome of you are stuck in the 90s when there were indeed some very dodgy baits about
In the 90's everything wasn't about hitting a price, fishmeal was a lot cheaper than it is now quality hasn't changed and so were high end refined milks which are now also super expensive, some of the best baits out there are still in there original form Essential B5, Premier Baits Fish Mixes, BFM, Trigga to name but a few, all still catch loads of fish a year. Dynamite went through a stage of using a lot of bread crumb in there mixes to cut them, Don't believe everything you read in the mags or see posted on bait companies catch reports a lot of them have not been caught on what they say they have, also alot of the Korda boys use Baitworks in there off screen fishing.
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I wasn't directing at you personally fella, I was more generalising about the state of the bait market in general 👍
QuoteI do trust Sticky when they say their preservative is ''natural'' as I believe it's just sugar
You might have seen Nick posting about some companies dipping there baits in glycerine which is essentially the above
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Nope not all components in a flavours make up are attractive to carp, but certain elements in some are.
QuoteI'm not into bait making mate, tried it and hate it
Fair enough, its not for everyone mate and is very time consuming, which some people just don't have
Quoteso many excellent readymades about, competitive market all push each other, fully trust a few bigger names
the old ready made debate is being covered in a another thread here, interesting topic for debate like i posted in there some ready mades are shocking and if I owned a water I wouldn't want some of those baits putting anywhere near my expensive investment in fish, even Gary Bayes says there is a slight nutrional hit with making readymades as you have to reduce the contents of the volatile ingredients (which are generally the ones you want more of) to achieve the a good shelf life, also what is shelf life couple of months to never go off. You are right there are a couple of people trying to do it right but that's just the preserving side of the argument.
There is also an argument over how long if ever these baits take to breakdown, lake are being drained to find kilos and kilos of boilies on the bottom that haven't broken down, Mark Pitchers experienced this when he drained Wainstone down, he'd had a guy heavily baiting with shelf life tuttis when he was clearing the bottom in the areas he had been fishing there was kilo's and kilo's of non broken down tutti's, kilos of rotting bait will end in a water quality issue eventually. You say big names but I have seen a lab analysis of ready made against the frozen version of a well known companies bait and they are very different, and this company had done a magazine article to claim this bait had x quantities of an element and the lab test showed half of that in the ready made.
Because of the competitive market you are sold the dream via the marketing hype but realities are sometimes different.
The main thing is you have found a company that your happy to part with your cash for so all is good.
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I don't agree that the best anglers stick with one bait, not a bit of it
I should have put a specific boilie, not bait, bait expands far beyond just the humble boilie, so they may stick to one boilie but will bring other items of bait in to play as and when they determine it is required. the best boilie mixes are generally balanced these days rather than being 1 specific type.
Quotedon't agree with how you overcomplicate things, I know of VERY experienced anglers who swear by certain flavours over others
Over complicate how ?? a carp is a carp right still has the same dietary requirements how it gets those can vary from water to water, I never said all flavours were useful just a high percentage, there are still some out there that are pretty good and companies blending them to a high standard, a good flavour has many chemical components scopex has around 15/16 from a good supplier and JB Plum has around 20+ I think, some of which are attractive to our cyprinid friends
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'hutch'' mate I saw what happened to my results by switching to non-fishmeals so that's good enough for me mate, results improved drastically and they loved the big name baits
If its working for you that's great confidence is key element to successful angling. I was just highlighting the fact that in respect of giving the fish something from the bait you are feeding them fish/meat based products are king, some of the nut products in use have there place as well to an extent.
QuoteI liked the nice smelling nutty baits and whether the carp liked them too or liked the chemorecepticalisationals, the effect was the same they loved it too
But they don't have a sense of smell mate, so pretty much all detection of items has to come via gustatory or chemoreception its the only way they a fish can detect what is food and what isn't, even a nut or bird mix will have something that appeals to them on 1 of those levels either via ingredients in the mix or liquid attractants.
but that did slot in the really good flavour band.
, before calling someone out do your ground work
Rolling my own baits
in UK Bait and Bait Making
Posted
You've probably already had the answer you need in the above posts. But in answer to your question it can dull the colour slightly if your using for example black liquid with a light coloured mix but not enough to effect the finished bait. I pick a colour/colours you want to make and buy the ready done coloured mix, if you need to get a dye to make a pink for example make sure its non soluble or it will just wash out (not all the peddled ones are non soluble). With the better dyes you need very little to get the colour you want.
Im not a fan of cork ball pop ups but thats just because im never happy with my finished product, i use pop up mix.
If your going to make your own i recommend nipping down the supermarket, visit the baking aisle and buy some sachets of whole egg white powder, one sachet per 100g of pop up mix used it just gives a nice hardened skin to the outside of the finished bait.