hutch

You've probably already had the answer you need in the above posts. But in answer to your question it can dull the colour slightly if your using for example black liquid with a light coloured mix but not enough to effect the finished bait. I pick a colour/colours you want to make and buy the ready done coloured mix, if you need to get a dye to make a pink for example make sure its non soluble or it will just wash out (not all the peddled ones are non soluble). With the better dyes you need very little to get the colour you want. Im not a fan of cork ball pop ups but thats just because im never happy with my finished product, i use pop up mix. If your going to make your own i recommend nipping down the supermarket, visit the baking aisle and buy some sachets of whole egg white powder, one sachet per 100g of pop up mix used it just gives a nice hardened skin to the outside of the finished bait.

Not personally but one of our members used to work on the site where the factory is located that the ready mades are produced, Im sure he will have a rough idea even if he doesn't publisize it

Have my eyes gone funny. You've just said 1 of your fav writers is Rod (as is mine he was way ahead of his time) who's primary writings were about Bait and its application. I actually quite like Dave's writing style but thats down to personal choice.

Clearly haven't read Flick of the Tale, Dave actually says he doesn't know much about the make up of bait prefers to let someone else do that side for him as he is usually focused on other parts of his fishing. Chilly has stated that once he's out of the sponsored game he is going to write a book about all the behind the scenes stuff that goes on in the fishing industry. Both are great anglers though

Hmmm theres alot of rumours regarding Korda members going to baitworks due to bait quality issues (not my headline just whats circulating in the industry) Your not far wrong I don't think, and would reflect the listing on the bag. Maybe missing a bit of skimmed milk powder

No but close If your using a bait that depends on its liquid profile, then that part needs to be very attractive. Parma Ham is no longer available Campbells discontinued it but that did slot in the really good flavour band. Who mentioned a good bait needs to be expensive, there are loads of great baits around the £6-7 a kilo mark some even less. How many times its on the BAG!!!!!!!!!!!, they sell in europe therefore to meet regs for selling in the EU they have to list the ingredients. Nothing wrong with using whole egg powder, it sometimes used to aid quick attractor release and breakdown quite a few people use liquid egg. Used a lot by our friends on the continent in there baits.

Wont say which product this is analysis of but its from a lab test on a big bait companies product 25g citric acid50ml Water15ml Boiled Ham10ml Maple5ml E422 (Glycerol) Close enough for me, quantity is based around he amount of liquid tested. And the guy who tested does lab testing for a living, Cereals are bulking agents there is nothing in there nutritional profile a carp can process they simply do not have the requirements to do so, they are used in baits as they are cheap and although not directly bad for carp they just stinky winky it out because there is no gain in there. Nearly every ingredient in use has come from animal/aquatic feeds industry these industries are heavily regulated by DEFRA and any item used in feeds has to have a detailed spec sheet produced detailing exactly what is in that ingredient and the process that's been used to create it. From these sheets you can tell whether an ingredient is useful for a bait or not. CM is that you 😒

You taking your tablets this morning Dez Dont believe Vic stated what his ideal protein level is, I would guess its not above 50% as carp can only utilise around 38% in one passing, its not about protein % any way it about how well the fish can utilise the protein in a given product. No one mentioned halibut pellets Its on the BAG!!!, lab analysis can tell exactly whats in a given product. oh and Vic's lab used to be at Sparsholt College , before calling someone out do your ground work

Ok lets phrase it another way, how much of that £10 per kilo your paying is actually the bait ? , the cost of the mix has to be offset by packaging, marketing, cost of manafacture, supplying consultants. Not much of a margin left. There are better baits developed by better bait brains out there for half the cost. Companies like Essential and ABS have been built by 2 of the best guys in the bait business but I haven't seen B5 at £10 a kilo

So when you were listen you should have been told yeasts are mainly digestion aids well the one in Cell is, the key to the yeast type is in the name.

Hope they don't read the bag ;), bait companies send each others products for lab testing all the time mate, please don't think they don't If it works for you and your confident in it and happy with the price keep going with it Mufty, if you move between several waters on short sessions it could work out well using that sort of bait.

I really dont think it does, bites on my water have slowed right down, its designed attraction (its possible its an investigative trigger that it uses) will only appeal in the short term the base is minimal on the nutritional front but is digestable which might be another reason they keep picking it up, but they will soon work out there not gaining anything from eating it. That time frame though can vary from water type to water type, also how much of it a water is seeing might be a factor as well.

Looks like you didn't get the invite Nige 😂

Not rocket science but possible simple science which makes it effective in the short term as the base is nothing special.

Good job Kev doesn't come on here, he's had comments about his hooks and his baits bet it would have him reaching for the whiskey 😂

😲😲Nige cover your eyes 😂😂

Sometimes they are mate, but when some one knows some of the elements in the equation quite well your salt in take can be reduced Semolina is a [censored] for then to process as they can't absorb anything from complex carbs, makes a good binder though. Errr not sure about your last bit mate

Not the first time I have seen mentions of bait company loosing some important people recently, last time they didn't name the company but did say some of the folk had gone to baitworks.

I dont think anyone is mate from what people have posted, their just generalising about human grade foods

Tight lines fella

Just me mate there are no super hidden ingredients in the bait industry most are from the animal feed market, and there are no super veg protein ingredients in use (but there are a couple of good ones), Cell is mainly cereal meal the rest can be guessed as the ingredients are on the bag. Sticky are better at what they do for my money. In the 90's everything wasn't about hitting a price, fishmeal was a lot cheaper than it is now quality hasn't changed and so were high end refined milks which are now also super expensive, some of the best baits out there are still in there original form Essential B5, Premier Baits Fish Mixes, BFM, Trigga to name but a few, all still catch loads of fish a year. Dynamite went through a stage of using a lot of bread crumb in there mixes to cut them, Don't believe everything you read in the mags or see posted on bait companies catch reports a lot of them have not been caught on what they say they have, also alot of the Korda boys use Baitworks in there off screen fishing.

I wasn't directing at you personally fella, I was more generalising about the state of the bait market in general 👍 You might have seen Nick posting about some companies dipping there baits in glycerine which is essentially the above

Nope not all components in a flavours make up are attractive to carp, but certain elements in some are. Fair enough, its not for everyone mate and is very time consuming, which some people just don't have the old ready made debate is being covered in a another thread here, interesting topic for debate like i posted in there some ready mades are shocking and if I owned a water I wouldn't want some of those baits putting anywhere near my expensive investment in fish, even Gary Bayes says there is a slight nutrional hit with making readymades as you have to reduce the contents of the volatile ingredients (which are generally the ones you want more of) to achieve the a good shelf life, also what is shelf life couple of months to never go off. You are right there are a couple of people trying to do it right but that's just the preserving side of the argument. There is also an argument over how long if ever these baits take to breakdown, lake are being drained to find kilos and kilos of boilies on the bottom that haven't broken down, Mark Pitchers experienced this when he drained Wainstone down, he'd had a guy heavily baiting with shelf life tuttis when he was clearing the bottom in the areas he had been fishing there was kilo's and kilo's of non broken down tutti's, kilos of rotting bait will end in a water quality issue eventually. You say big names but I have seen a lab analysis of ready made against the frozen version of a well known companies bait and they are very different, and this company had done a magazine article to claim this bait had x quantities of an element and the lab test showed half of that in the ready made. Because of the competitive market you are sold the dream via the marketing hype but realities are sometimes different. The main thing is you have found a company that your happy to part with your cash for so all is good.

I should have put a specific boilie, not bait, bait expands far beyond just the humble boilie, so they may stick to one boilie but will bring other items of bait in to play as and when they determine it is required. the best boilie mixes are generally balanced these days rather than being 1 specific type. Over complicate how ?? a carp is a carp right still has the same dietary requirements how it gets those can vary from water to water, I never said all flavours were useful just a high percentage, there are still some out there that are pretty good and companies blending them to a high standard, a good flavour has many chemical components scopex has around 15/16 from a good supplier and JB Plum has around 20+ I think, some of which are attractive to our cyprinid friends

If its working for you that's great confidence is key element to successful angling. I was just highlighting the fact that in respect of giving the fish something from the bait you are feeding them fish/meat based products are king, some of the nut products in use have there place as well to an extent. But they don't have a sense of smell mate, so pretty much all detection of items has to come via gustatory or chemoreception its the only way they a fish can detect what is food and what isn't, even a nut or bird mix will have something that appeals to them on 1 of those levels either via ingredients in the mix or liquid attractants.