Lead setups conversation from combi-rig

[elmoputney]

4 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

I did rig trials in Dec taking my stiff hinge pop-up rig and adapting (longer/straighter) for bottom baits and wafters.  I got 3 takes on it, all drop backs which indicated to me that they were the bigger fish (proper Kingy fish always do this) but all shook the rig before I connected.

Whilst this was disappointing I feel that the rig actually worked OK hooking the fish in the first place, they always come towards you and shake it free anyway (barbless) so really the problem was the semi fixed lead.  I clocked this and changed over to running set-ups but no more takes to prove the theory.

In a recent video Myles Gibson was trying a very similar rig.

Probably going to be Dec again before I come off the pop-ups and onto wafters and continue the experiment again.

 

PB products hit n run lead clips have become an essential part of my set up lately. From a safety POV, they are smashing, in the event of a crack off or cut off type incident the fish will only ever be left with the rig in its mouth and not trailing loads of line, 

and because it's essentially free running they can't use the weight of the lead to help eject the hook. I've had a lot of screaming takes since switching to them. 

 

[salokcinnodrog]

11 hours ago, elmoputney said:

PB products hit n run lead clips have become an essential part of my set up lately. From a safety POV, they are smashing, in the event of a crack off or cut off type incident the fish will only ever be left with the rig in its mouth and not trailing loads of line, 

and because it's essentially free running they can't use the weight of the lead to help eject the hook. I've had a lot of screaming takes since switching to them. 

 

I can't remember where I first bought them, but I had to replace my dwindling stock of run rings and clips.

https://www.korum.co.uk/en/products/rig-accessories/kp-00170

I've lost a couple or rigs recently, blooming swans, one swam through the line and tangled up, the other picked up the hookbait, both resulted in losing the lot. On the tangled up loss, it was just after the cast, so the line was still in the clip. The swan swam towards the splash of the PVA bag. I checked the line, and it had gone at the knot.

As for the running leads, and slack lines, the two carp this week were absolute screamers. The second carp during the fight I could see the lead on the run ring, and as the fish kicked right, I could see the lead eject off the clip, not losing the run ring, just the standard type clip like the picture. I'm not sure but it may be because I cut the swivel off the leads, and the wire loop can slip between the prong.

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I can't remember where I first bought them, but I had to replace my dwindling stock of run rings and clips.

https://www.korum.co.uk/en/products/rig-accessories/kp-00170

I've lost a couple or rigs recently, blooming swans, one swam through the line and tangled up, the other picked up the hookbait, both resulted in losing the lot. On the tangled up loss, it was just after the cast, so the line was still in the clip. The swan swam towards the splash of the PVA bag. I checked the line, and it had gone at the knot.

As for the running leads, and slack lines, the two carp this week were absolute screamers. The second carp during the fight I could see the lead on the run ring, and as the fish kicked right, I could see the lead eject off the clip, not losing the run ring, just the standard type clip like the picture. I'm not sure but it may be because I cut the swivel off the leads, and the wire loop can slip between the prong.

With a running rig you are still going to leave a trailer attached in the event of a crack off. That's why I am now using the pb ones same benefit of a running rig, but as the fish swims off the rig with swivel will travel up the trailing line and free itself leaving only the rig in its mouth, 

[salokcinnodrog]

4 hours ago, elmoputney said:

With a running rig you are still going to leave a trailer attached in the event of a crack off. That's why I am now using the pb ones same benefit of a running rig, but as the fish swims off the rig with swivel will travel up the trailing line and free itself leaving only the rig in its mouth, 

From the crack-off with the swan, it went at the hooklink knot, as it does in the majority of cases. It is normally only if the line gets fragged by snags or detritus does it go anywhere else. The run ring can travel up the line and off.

I think every trailer I have found, has been caught up with a semi-fixed lead, usually on a lead clip...

I have removed and freed a couple from snags in the past!

Yet never found one with a running lead on.

[elmoputney]

3 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

From the crack-off with the swan, it went at the hooklink knot, as it does in the majority of cases. It is normally only if the line gets fragged by snags or detritus does it go anywhere else. The run ring can travel up the line and off.

I think every trailer I have found, has been caught up with a semi-fixed lead, usually on a lead clip...

I have removed and freed a couple from snags in the past!

Yet never found one with a running lead on.

A trailer with a running lead could still leave a fish attached to a long trailer, yes it might be minus the lead but the rig is directly tied to the mainline via a swivel, with the hit n run lead clip if you got the same trailer, the rig would come loose as the swivel is free of the mainline,and therefore you will only ever leave the rig attached once the line parts as the fish can move up the mainline and be free of the trailer. It is also a running rig but neater and IMO safer. 

[kevtaylor]

On 13/06/2025 at 20:50, elmoputney said:

PB products hit n run lead clips have become an essential part of my set up lately. From a safety POV, they are smashing, in the event of a crack off or cut off type incident the fish will only ever be left with the rig in its mouth and not trailing loads of line, 

and because it's essentially free running they can't use the weight of the lead to help eject the hook. I've had a lot of screaming takes since switching to them. 

 

Cheers mate - I'll have a look 👍

[salokcinnodrog]

On 14/06/2025 at 18:20, elmoputney said:

A trailer with a running lead could still leave a fish attached to a long trailer, yes it might be minus the lead but the rig is directly tied to the mainline via a swivel, with the hit n run lead clip if you got the same trailer, the rig would come loose as the swivel is free of the mainline,and therefore you will only ever leave the rig attached once the line parts as the fish can move up the mainline and be free of the trailer. It is also a running rig but neater and IMO safer. 

I'm not sure, you have what is essentially a 'pulley rig' system as is used in sea fishing. There is inbuilt tension, so I don't think it is a true running rig. 

I've seen fish eject rigs when there is no tension, and Ken Townley wrote about it in Tim Paisley's Big Carp, where a lost fish at Savay came into Snags with a rig in its mouth. 2 days later the fish was swimming around in the snags minus the rig. 

As I mention, the majority of the time, the line breaks at the swivel anyway, the knot is the weak point. When I hooked the swan last week, and the line snapped, it was still in the clip, so I was able to check where it had broken; the loss was minimal, more where I cut off the curly-wurly. 

A fish trailing just rig and line is not likely to be giving false indication to other anglers, unless there is detritus caught up on the line, whereas a lead clip that hasn't ejected, and I have retrieved a lot of them, will. Not all had the tail rubber forced or pushed right on, some were just jammed up with a bit of weed, mud or stick!

 

Something else, the loop of line in the PB lead clip, with the lead or lead swivel butting up against it, may be at risk of damage from the lead itself. If that loops breaks you will still be losing line and the fish. I don't think it is as secure as a standard knot to the hooklink swivel.

 

[framey]

Don’t care what anyone says, There is no fool proof lead set up 

the best you can hope for is to minimise any problems if and when it happens 

underwater, anything can happen once the line has snapped off.

 

 

[yonny]

1 hour ago, framey said:

There is no fool proof lead set up 

This.

The safest set-up is the one that gets the fish in the net without problems.

[elmoputney]

8 hours ago, framey said:

Don’t care what anyone says, There is no fool proof lead set up 

the best you can hope for is to minimise any problems if and when it happens 

underwater, anything can happen once the line has snapped off.

 

 

I haven't said it's fool proof or perfect or anything but I think it is a little safer than most other things we chuck out into the water, and I think it's a good product. 

 

6 hours ago, yonny said:

This.

The safest set-up is the one that gets the fish in the net without problems.

I agree,

 

I probably should just stop making suggestions. 

[framey]

8 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I haven't said it's fool proof or perfect or anything but I think it is a little safer than most other things we chuck out into the water, and I think it's a good product. 

 

I agree,

 

I probably should just stop making suggestions. 

I wasn’t aiming my reply at anyone Elmo just a general comment.

i think the hit and run products are very good 

[salokcinnodrog]

16 hours ago, yonny said:

This.

The safest set-up is the one that gets the fish in the net without problems.

Without damaging the fish.

 

17 hours ago, framey said:

Don’t care what anyone says, There is no fool proof lead set up 

the best you can hope for is to minimise any problems if and when it happens 

underwater, anything can happen once the line has snapped off.

 

 

And that is why my usual set up is a run ring straight on the mainline or tubing.

9 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I haven't said it's fool proof or perfect or anything but I think it is a little safer than most other things we chuck out into the water, and I think it's a good product. 

 

I agree,

 

I probably should just stop making suggestions. 

Suggestions work, they are the basis of invention and problem solving.

 

However, in every product the idea then needs full inspection and development before production, or full proper instructions for use.

@elmoputney that is not aimed directly at you as Korda (in my view) were responsible for a lot of bad angling practices with lead clips.

 

As I have said above, I don't think that it is a true running lead, compared to a standard run ring and slack line you will have resistance, the internal bore of the lead clip reduces free line movement and any detritus can jam up that movement. It will need to be fished as a standard semi-fixed set-up.

However as a lead clip, it is possibly the best version available. As long as the line is still able to go through the lead clip the rig will be ejected. 

I should add a point that whether running lead or semi-fixed lead, tubing increases resistance and although the line should pull through, and crack-off above may cause a 'wind knot' and so stop it pulling through.

[framey]

4 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

I should add a point that whether running lead or semi-fixed lead, tubing increases resistance and although the line should pull through, and crack-off above may cause a 'wind knot' and so stop it pulling through.

Whilst it is unlikely 

it “could” still happen with a running lead.

that same wind knot “could” loop over itself pig tail and lock in the lead Ala a single granny knot.

“could” pick up a piece of detritus on the bed and do the same.

unless you can take out every “could”

You will always be left with an element of risk.

 

i am happy to use a leadcore leader but I will use a knotless knot (Moors knot ) to join it to minimise the risk.

Use a Korda no trace bead and again take out an element of risk

i would be happy to see the no trace beads more supple/stretchy rather than hard plastic.

 

[elmoputney]

10 hours ago, framey said:

I wasn’t aiming my reply at anyone Elmo just a general comment.

i think the hit and run products are very good 

No i know, I just think everytime I mention a product I like, I then have to write a essay to justify it. 😂

[salokcinnodrog]

13 hours ago, elmoputney said:

No i know, I just think everytime I mention a product I like, I then have to write a essay to justify it. 😂

Other than my buying tackle because it is 'shiny', I tend to analyse every tackle item I buy, and that includes end tackle. Various purchases have been made, and the item tested and slung in the bin, line, hooks, clips, PVA.

I don't like lead clips, pretty much full stop. Their original reason for manufacture was as a way to remove a semi-fixed lead at the end of the session, not as a way to dump the lead on a take. Whoever came up with that idea, deserves a place in hell for littering and pollution.

If you are using a pendant lead on a lead clip in weed, it may be an idea to change to a distance shaped inline lead. The inline catches up less, a lead clip might get jammed up with weed and not release, you are then playing a fish and a weed covered lead.

On one day at Nazeing I retrieved 5leads, leaders and rigs all on lead clips from the snags, and one of them may until my intervention have had a fish attached. 

@yonny makes a point about the safest set-up is the one that lands the fish, however it does not mean fishing in the thickest weed or up to impenetrable snags, which I think too many are still doing. 

[kevtaylor]

On 16/06/2025 at 15:30, yonny said:

On 16/06/2025 at 15:30, yonny said:

This.

The safest set-up is the one that gets the fish in the net without problems.

I use lead clips all the time and will continue quite happily, I can see some danger but happy to live with that as I fish heavy gear and fish sensibly.

If we were that concerned we'd use lower bs hooklinks than the line regardless like match anglers.

Snapped line springs back into a birdsnest, so even the running rig potentially tangles and tethers.

[yonny]

18 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

I use lead clips all the time and will continue quite happily

Me too.

On the water I'm fishing there's no way you'd be able to fish a running rig. If the fish takes lines on the take you're halfway to losing it already such is the severity of the weed.

 

[salokcinnodrog]

On 17/06/2025 at 12:37, framey said:

Whilst it is unlikely 

it “could” still happen with a running lead.

that same wind knot “could” loop over itself pig tail and lock in the lead Ala a single granny knot.

“could” pick up a piece of detritus on the bed and do the same.

unless you can take out every “could”

You will always be left with an element of risk.

 

i am happy to use a leadcore leader but I will use a knotless knot (Moors knot ) to join it to minimise the risk.

Use a Korda no trace bead and again take out an element of risk

i would be happy to see the no trace beads more supple/stretchy rather than hard plastic.

 

 

On 19/06/2025 at 20:02, kevtaylor said:

I use lead clips all the time and will continue quite happily, I can see some danger but happy to live with that as I fish heavy gear and fish sensibly.

If we were that concerned we'd use lower bs hooklinks than the line regardless like match anglers.

Snapped line springs back into a birdsnest, so even the running rig potentially tangles and tethers.

 

On 20/06/2025 at 14:34, yonny said:

Me too.

On the water I'm fishing there's no way you'd be able to fish a running rig. If the fish takes lines on the take you're halfway to losing it already such is the severity of the weed.

 

I think we all forget that accidents do happen. I have seen the springback from snapped line, and yes it most definitely happens; that bundle of birds nest that tangles up around the rod tip after a snap-off, a bite-off from a pike. No matter what, we do all lose rigs, with or without the lead.

Obviously we do the absolute best to reduce that risk, albeit in different ways due to our beliefs. I don't believe in using a leader, unless mega distance casting with big leads. If it is weedy, snaggy then I personally think go without the leader, and accept I can't cast as far.

I have tested lines and leaders, wet and dry, pulled for a break, and it nearly always breaks at the line join, the knot, or a fraction above it where it has been tightened down. The exception is if there is damaged line above it, where it breaks at the damage.

Run rings give me the thought that a larger bore, hole through the middle, will go over that birdsnest that @kevtaylor mentions, unless the break includes and goes over run ring.

I now come to @yonny 's point, a run ring and running lead is only truly a running lead when it is fished with a slack line, minimal tension, the line touching the bottom of each rod ring, dropping straight down from the rod tip, no tension on the indicator. When it is fished with a tight line it becomes 'semi-fixed', or a bolt rig. Preventing the fish having line, as in the same as snag fishing, forcing the fish to arc on the take can be done with a run ring and tight line, locked up rods and reels.

In weed I'm positive that lead clips can jam up, and not release the lead. Aside from some numpty attaching the leader with a swivel, I retrieved this from a snag. The lead most definitely had not released. I do not know whether they had cut off the mainline or pulled for a break but the line did reach roughly from the swim to the snag where I managed to catch up on it and retrieve it with 15lb mainline.

I've fished in weedy waters, Suffolk Water Park, Taverham Mills even areas of Nazeing Lagoons, and again with testing and experiments I found a Zipp shaped inline lead catches up less weed than a pendant setup, whether a run ring or lead clip. It colours my thoughts on why I don't like lead clips in weed, and do switch back to inlines, which can be fished to drop off.

[yonny]

2 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

Tail rubber jammed on. User error imo.

[salokcinnodrog]

56 minutes ago, yonny said:

Tail rubber jammed on. User error imo.

To be honest complete numpty error. When I retrieved that I was disgusted, and did give it to one of the bailiffs when he came round. The lead clip wasn't locked onto the hooklink swivel, you can see the gap. It had been forced onto the leader (I think a TFG one), and a swivel attached to the mainline end. 

Looking at the tail rubber, it was a Solar Soft rubber.

From that same spot on another occasion I retrieved a bundle of around 6 leads and rigs, some still with bait and plastic hookbaits on. I'll have to see if I can find that pic!

 

I've retrieved helicopter setups with rigs still attached, on leadcore and leadfree. Strangely very few on naked mainline.