Today's Bait rolling thought.

[jh92]

Got my bait rolling setup complete, just need to get some ingredients in. In two minds whether to stick with my lt94 mix that has worked for me during the warmer months, or try a new recipe for a nut/milk mix 🤔 one of them with it being cold and the bites being less frequent, is it really the time to be trying a new mix or should I just stick with the current lt94 mix lol.

 

[emmcee]

On 07/01/2025 at 12:32, jh92 said:

Got my bait rolling setup complete, just need to get some ingredients in. In two minds whether to stick with my lt94 mix that has worked for me during the warmer months, or try a new recipe for a nut/milk mix 🤔 one of them with it being cold and the bites being less frequent, is it really the time to be trying a new mix or should I just stick with the current lt94 mix lol.

 

I recall one year when I switched baits in January, it also coincided with a change of lakes as well i might add. Ditched my fishmeal that I'd been catching on on the first lake to try a bait my mate had designed which was a milk/nut bait. It wasn't an ordinary milk/nut bait mind being really high in milk protein and the nuts used will 100% not be used in any nut bait on the open market , it was a nightmare to roll and the process of mixing/rolling it was long winded. I ended up preparing it  one evening and rolling the next evening. So started baiting up in January onwards. Didn't catch for a month or so but when they switched on coming out of there winter slumber I caught plenty and wasnt far off top rod even though i only fished 3 months til the end of the season. So my advice is, if you think you can knock up a decent milk/nut bait then go for that.  

[jh92]

23 hours ago, emmcee said:

I recall one year when I switched baits in January, it also coincided with a change of lakes as well i might add. Ditched my fishmeal that I'd been catching on on the first lake to try a bait my mate had designed which was a milk/nut bait. It wasn't an ordinary milk/nut bait mind being really high in milk protein and the nuts used will 100% not be used in any nut bait on the open market , it was a nightmare to roll and the process of mixing/rolling it was long winded. I ended up preparing it  one evening and rolling the next evening. So started baiting up in January onwards. Didn't catch for a month or so but when they switched on coming out of there winter slumber I caught plenty and wasnt far off top rod even though i only fished 3 months til the end of the season. So my advice is, if you think you can knock up a decent milk/nut bait then go for that.  

Thanks for the reply mate, I think what I'm going to do is just put an order in for my lt94 mix that works and an order for a nut/milk mix and fish 2 rods over the lt94 bait and 1 over the other and see if it produces while still having confidence in the other two rods on a proven bait 👍

Rolling is no biggie now cos its all machine automated and can do around 75 - 100kg a day with ease 💪 problem for me now is I have a few recipes and tweaks i wanna try, it's just finding the time to try it, bit of a rabbit hole tbh 🤣

[Ron Jeremy]

I'd make a bait with no nut or fish meals in if I was to start rolling bait again. The biggest edge in bait making is that you can be different. 

[elmoputney]

22 minutes ago, jh92 said:

Thanks for the reply mate, I think what I'm going to do is just put an order in for my lt94 mix that works and an order for a nut/milk mix and fish 2 rods over the lt94 bait and 1 over the other and see if it produces while still having confidence in the other two rods on a proven bait 👍

Rolling is no biggie now cos its all machine automated and can do around 75 - 100kg a day with ease 💪 problem for me now is I have a few recipes and tweaks i wanna try, it's just finding the time to try it, bit of a rabbit hole tbh 🤣

If you wanted a nut base mix to have a tinker with the Reaper Nut Mix might be a good starting point for you. I've been using the boilies for a couple of years and the fish do seem to like them. 

https://innovatebaits.co.uk/products/?category=base_mixes

[emmcee]

15 minutes ago, Ron Jeremy said:

I'd make a bait with no nut or fish meals in if I was to start rolling bait again. The biggest edge in bait making is that you can be different. 

Totally get what your saying there with you can be different by rolling your own. Though you can still use fishmeal,  nut bait etc and still be different.  The bait my mate designed used a few of the ingredients used in other nut baits but the process in making the bait would 100% not have been used by bait manufacturers due to the aggro of preparing it the way he did and the time it took to prepare properly and that was his edge. The lucky few who got to roll his bait absolutely rinsed lakes with it, some of which were hard lakes , though that bait at times made them look easy. 

 

 

[Ron Jeremy]

So by preparing a nut ingredient, in a different way, it made a bait that obliterated all other baits? Yeah right o 🤣

Edited Friday at 19:37 by Ron Jeremy
Missed a word

[Ron Jeremy]

33 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

If you wanted a nut base mix to have a tinker with the Reaper Nut Mix might be a good starting point for you. I've been using the boilies for a couple of years and the fish do seem to like them. 

https://innovatebaits.co.uk/products/?category=base_mixes

I just looked at the website after you recommended them on my thread. There's 1 bait on there which I really like the look of, are you part of the company or just use them? 

[elmoputney]

2 hours ago, Ron Jeremy said:

I just looked at the website after you recommended them on my thread. There's 1 bait on there which I really like the look of, are you part of the company or just use them? 

No i just get my bait from them. I needed a new bait Co, as the last one I used sadly closed during covid, these were local to me and it just made sense tbh, I've got 20kg of this one at the moment,smells lovely, I was using RNM  for the last couple of years. I bet it's apocalypse? 

[Ron Jeremy]

1 hour ago, elmoputney said:

No i just get my bait from them. I needed a new bait Co, as the last one I used sadly closed during covid, these were local to me and it just made sense tbh, I've got 20kg of this one at the moment,smells lovely, I was using RNM  for the last couple of years. I bet it's apocalypse? 

No it's Kreme something or other, I don't like nut baits really, and I've used so many tonnes of fishmeals over the years, they work well but I've had non fishmeals that work as well as fishmeals, plus I like to be different 

[elmoputney]

9 hours ago, Ron Jeremy said:

No it's Kreme something or other, I don't like nut baits really, and I've used so many tonnes of fishmeals over the years, they work well but I've had non fishmeals that work as well as fishmeals, plus I like to be different 

Kream crunch jaffa, ive not used it myself tbh but you only have to look at the fb catch reports. It definately catches lots, I do have a lot of confidence in their choc n orange pop ups though, they work and smell lovely also 😏

The banarama is based on KKJ but  I've only used it once so far, I didn't catch but that was probably my fault not the baits. I would use any of them confidently. 

[Ron Jeremy]

Yeah that's the one, looks ideal tbh

[elmoputney]

53 minutes ago, Ron Jeremy said:

Yeah that's the one, looks ideal tbh

This is one my daughter caught within 5 minutes of chucking out Cmc pop up with a handful of RNM around it. 

[Ron Jeremy]

Nice one 

[salokcinnodrog]

15 hours ago, emmcee said:

Totally get what your saying there with you can be different by rolling your own. Though you can still use fishmeal,  nut bait etc and still be different.  The bait my mate designed used a few of the ingredients used in other nut baits but the process in making the bait would 100% not have been used by bait manufacturers due to the aggro of preparing it the way he did and the time it took to prepare properly and that was his edge. The lucky few who got to roll his bait absolutely rinsed lakes with it, some of which were hard lakes , though that bait at times made them look easy. 

 

 

Bait companies have to roll baits that are economically viable, so few can go to the 'edge' of preparing ingredients by fermentation, and often have to use ingredients that are off the shelf. Also bait rolling companies need to make baits that will go through the machine, whereas at home I may have to roll by hand.

 

15 hours ago, Ron Jeremy said:

So by preparing a nut ingredient, in a different way, it made a bait that obliterated all other baits? Yeah right o 🤣

Not many anglers are willing to pay for a bait that works out at £10 a kilo to produce.

An example of being different from others was when I was rolling my own Trigga. The standard Trigga worked and was quite simply Trigga base mix, Liquid Trigga and eggs, but by adding extra Betaine, Liver Elite and Sweet Cajouser it outfished the basic mix, either as a shop bought frozen or angler rolled Trigga.

I can roll a basic nut mix bait, tiger nut flour, peanut meal, semolina, (for example) and it will work, but by adding garlic oil and liver powder creating a meaty nut mix improve the base.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

12 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Bait companies have to roll baits that are economically viable, so few can go to the 'edge' of preparing ingredients by fermentation, and often have to use ingredients that are off the shelf. Also bait rolling companies need to make baits that will go through the machine, whereas at home I may have to roll by hand.

 

Not many anglers are willing to pay for a bait that works out at £10 a kilo to produce.

An example of being different from others was when I was rolling my own Trigga. The standard Trigga worked and was quite simply Trigga base mix, Liquid Trigga and eggs, but by adding extra Betaine, Liver Elite and Sweet Cajouser it outfished the basic mix, either as a shop bought frozen or angler rolled Trigga.

I can roll a basic nut mix bait, tiger nut flour, peanut meal, semolina, (for example) and it will work, but by adding garlic oil and liver powder creating a meaty nut mix improve the base.

 

Yes I understand, I've been involved in commercial bait design previously 🙂 a lot of these so called edges that home rollers think they are achieving don't really do a lot. They certainly don't produce a bait that outsides a standard balanced fishmeal or bird food/carb bait. In the case of some of these home made so called hydrolysed liquids home rollers are making, they have no idea which bonds of which proteins they are breaking down, in the case of fermentation you can just add the end product rather than trying to turn complex carbohydrates into simple sugars. Quick and easy. The Old saying a little bit of knowledge can be worse than none springs to mind. 

[elmoputney]

22 hours ago, Ron Jeremy said:

Yes I understand, I've been involved in commercial bait design previously 🙂 a lot of these so called edges that home rollers think they are achieving don't really do a lot. They certainly don't produce a bait that outsides a standard balanced fishmeal or bird food/carb bait. In the case of some of these home made so called hydrolysed liquids home rollers are making, they have no idea which bonds of which proteins they are breaking down, in the case of fermentation you can just add the end product rather than trying to turn complex carbohydrates into simple sugars. Quick and easy. The Old saying a little bit of knowledge can be worse than none springs to mind. 

So which end product liquids would you be adding to baits? 

[jh92]

On 10/01/2025 at 19:11, elmoputney said:

If you wanted a nut base mix to have a tinker with the Reaper Nut Mix might be a good starting point for you. I've been using the boilies for a couple of years and the fish do seem to like them. 

https://innovatebaits.co.uk/products/?category=base_mixes

Thanks bud I will have a look what they using 👍

I find I get a good buzz from catching on something I've put together myself 🤣

[Ron Jeremy]

4 hours ago, elmoputney said:

So which end product liquids would you be adding to baits? 

Nowadays it's really easy, with both the Internet and a lot more products available, hydrolysed products are everywhere and sugars of the correct type have always been available. 

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, Ron Jeremy said:

Nowadays it's really easy, with both the Internet and a lot more products available, hydrolysed products are everywhere and sugars of the correct type have always been available. 

That's what I could have said to you regarding the bait question, but that's kind of not the point of the forum, we bounce ideas about and share, I have my own ideas about liquids and know which ones have been good in the past, however at the moment BAF have pretty much tried to stop supplying the average Joe fishermen, so it can be an expensive game buying duff liquids. So I'll ask a slightly different question who do you consider a reputable hydro/liquid manufacturer now BAF only want to do trade sales? 

[jh92]

1 hour ago, elmoputney said:

That's what I could have said to you regarding the bait question, but that's kind of not the point of the forum, we bounce ideas about and share, I have my own ideas about liquids and know which ones have been good in the past, however at the moment BAF have pretty much tried to stop supplying the average Joe fishermen, so it can be an expensive game buying duff liquids. So I'll ask a slightly different question who do you consider a reputable hydro/liquid manufacturer now BAF only want to do trade sales? 

I get all my stuff from aabaits.co.uk, used a few of the liquids from there and have done well 👍 ones I've used so far are the shrimp hydro, krill hydro and the ocean+ mate 👍

[elmoputney]

30 minutes ago, jh92 said:

I get all my stuff from aabaits.co.uk, used a few of the liquids from there and have done well 👍 ones I've used so far are the shrimp hydro, krill hydro and the ocean+ mate 👍

Thanks I've used AA Baits a couple of times, not for hydros though so good to know thanks. 

[Ron Jeremy]

I buy smaller amounts from aa too, they're the real deal. 

[salokcinnodrog]

On 12/01/2025 at 09:27, elmoputney said:

So which end product liquids would you be adding to baits? 

Hydrolyzed beef and liquid liver are both good additions.

Decide what liver you want as both liquid chicken liver and beef liver are available.

 

Something else that is useful in baits is garlic oil, very low level. 

 

The other thing is that a number of powders are hydrolyzed, beef, fish etc.

They may go under the name of bio-active.

 

[jh92]

I've done my order and gonna go with a milky nut bait and If I've worked it out correctly the finished bait should give roughly 

39% protein

45% carbs

15% fats

👍