Hookpulls and how to cure them

[framey]

had one of those as a kid 

metallic red it was

couldn’t play it like him though lol

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, framey said:

had one of those as a kid 

metallic red it was

couldn’t play it like him though lol

No me either he was pretty good 😁

[elmoputney]

I got a few rig bits in the post today, got some size 4 bank tackle wide gapes (beaked. Point) I'm not going to change two things but they do look quite good so I may make one up to try later, they seemed very sharp out the pack I though with a little tickle they could be super sharp I think, 

[elmoputney]

Quite like that I think, seems to turn quite nicely and actually does OK on the old palm test, 

[framey]

Pop the line out before the end of the shrink tube 

yes it’s a pain to do but it works better 
im sure I used to do miles better years ago using a proper line aligned set up 

[commonly]

Do you move the hook bead at all elmo? 

I try to keep it at the end the shank, before the curve, so the bait screw (I use micro swivel with dental floss) only moves on the shank. Imo meaning more of the hook is in its mouth,  always goes centre  bottom lip.  

I use floss on the micro swivel as I think it allows the hook bait to move more naturally. 

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, commonly said:

Do you move the hook bead at all elmo? 

I try to keep it at the end the shank, before the curve, so the bait screw (I use micro swivel with dental floss) only moves on the shank. Imo meaning more of the hook is in its mouth,  always goes centre  bottom lip.  

I use floss on the micro swivel as I think it allows the hook bait to move more naturally. 

Yes that was a bit of a rushed one this is more like the finished article, 

I find floss and microswivels too time consuming and annoying lol, I much prefer the ease of a bait screw tbh this is what I use for a wafter rig around 5 - 6, inches 

[elmoputney]

9 hours ago, framey said:

Pop the line out before the end of the shrink tube 

yes it’s a pain to do but it works better 
im sure I used to do miles better years ago using a proper line aligned set up 

I might try it next time I had already done a few before I spotted this, 

Personally I think I've done better since I simplified the rigs, the less there is to go wrong the less I worry about them 👍

[salokcinnodrog]

On 15/09/2020 at 14:35, yonny said:

Lads, a hook is essentially a very stiff spring (they're made from high carbon spring steel). They need to flex to absorb the forces loaded during the fight. If they didn't flex, they would snap. Flexing is absolutely critical to any hook. Without it they cannot absorb the load/force.

 

On 15/09/2020 at 15:20, Pete Springate's Guns said:

Agreed. But surely too much flex must impact the security of the hookhold? i.e. a hook ‘opens’ momentarily due to a powerful, lunging fish and the hook slips/pulls?

I went through a series of hookpulls years ago on Fox Series 2's in size 6 and 8.

During the fight the hook was opening out enough to pull free, and then springing back into shape. It was only when one stayed 'straight' that I figured what was happening. The fish were fighting very hard, in a silty water,  from the off, normally hooked close to the rods. 

 

My usual course of action on hookpulls is to lengthen the hair, working on my theory; 

Hooked at the extreme edge of the mouth/lip, getting hookpulls then lengthen the hair. 

Hooked deep down in the mouth shorten the hair. 

Dead centre of the lip, perfick. 

 

While this is all well and good, sometimes simply increasing the amount of free bait around the hookbait can also improve your hookholds. 

 

 

[elmoputney]

7 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

I went through a series of hookpulls years ago on Fox Series 2's in size 6 and 8.

During the fight the hook was opening out enough to pull free, and then springing back into shape. It was only when one stayed 'straight' that I figured what was happening. The fish were fighting very hard, in a silty water,  from the off, normally hooked close to the rods. 

 

My usual course of action on hookpulls is to lengthen the hair, working on my theory; 

Hooked at the extreme edge of the mouth/lip, getting hookpulls then lengthen the hair. 

Hooked deep down in the mouth shorten the hair. 

Dead centre of the lip, perfick. 

 

While this is all well and good, sometimes simply increasing the amount of free bait around the hookbait can also improve your hookholds. 

 

 

Thanks nick 

Well I've changed hook to a wide gape and still had a hook pull so I guess it's not the hook, i think it has to be the bait screw tbh,and having the bait to close to the hook, I have two options can either switch to the swivel bait screw or go back to using a hair instead of a bait screw 

[crusian]

33 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

Thanks nick 

Well I've changed hook to a wide gape and still had a hook pull so I guess it's not the hook, i think it has to be the bait screw tbh,and having the bait to close to the hook, I have two options can either switch to the swivel bait screw or go back to using a hair instead of a bait screw 

Hi Elmo .

I use a combi rig with an ESP Gripper hook with a hair .

Using pop ups , almost all my hookholds are in the scissors , but after reading your post I altered the rig so that the hair came off the middle of the bottom of the hook ; I've had one fish hooked middle of the bottom lip , so I'll see if this was a one off , or I carry on with improved  hookholds 🤔

😃

 

[elmoputney]

I had put my middle rod on a ronnie rig with a curve shank absolutely nailed the bottom lip one 20+ mirror in the retainer from a little spot I've often ignored but seem to catch from when I don't 😂 

Now I just have 2 wafters out there till sunrise 😬 I think they need a longer hair next tbh 

[crusian]

2 hours ago, elmoputney said:

I had put my middle rod on a ronnie rig with a curve shank absolutely nailed the bottom lip one 20+ mirror in the retainer from a little spot I've often ignored but seem to catch from when I don't 😂 

Now I just have 2 wafters out there till sunrise 😬 I think they need a longer hair next tbh 

Tight lines , Elmo , and congratulations on the 20+ , I'll look for the 'photos on another thread .

😁

[elmoputney]

Well I switched to Ronnie's but back onto the curves not sure If it's still the bait screw or the actual hooks, I think I've found a way to overcome it, change hook brands , and switch to a multi rig but use heat shrink to create the kicker, this will leave the bait screw farther away from the shank hopefully causing less issues 😁

Overthinking it maybe, need to change it somehow definately, gonna be moving swims so a fresh start won't hurt with rigs too, nice and simple pop up rig which should hopefully reduce the number of hookpulls 

[elmoputney]

I've been watching through the crypography back issues when I get a chance, I happened to chance upon one with elliot grey showing his rig off, so I made one as its not dissimilar to the one I made but using a knot less knot hair and a proper line aligner (as suggested by framey) this is both of them in a jug, I quite like the hair it just looks less blatent and it doesn't rattle, just a bit more delicate and tuneable if required 

[elmoputney]

On 28/09/2020 at 22:54, DENNIS said:

Its the trend for short stiff rigs that is the problem

The carp is feeling something wrong far too quickly (especially if you've been mug enough to put swivels and shrink tube anywhere near your hook)!

 

Richard Walker noticed that stiff monos etc is a horrible choice of hooklink, about 60 years ago!

And I'm surprised more of you haven't noticed that: it still is!

So what did Richard walker use then? A lot has changed in 60 years 

And also what would you suggest to use I am open all ears?  

[yonny]

12 minutes ago, elmoputney said:

So what did Richard walker use then?

Par boiled potatoes lol.

Times change......

[elmoputney]

11 minutes ago, yonny said:

Par boiled potatoes lol.

Times change......

Must have been tricky getting the fish to feed While they were still warm cos no one eats cold potatoes do they? 

[salokcinnodrog]

2 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Must have been tricky getting the fish to feed While they were still warm cos no one eats cold potatoes do they? 

Potato salad... 😅

 

On 19/09/2020 at 20:59, elmoputney said:

Thanks nick 

Well I've changed hook to a wide gape and still had a hook pull so I guess it's not the hook, i think it has to be the bait screw tbh,and having the bait to close to the hook, I have two options can either switch to the swivel bait screw or go back to using a hair instead of a bait screw 

Try using a free running rig ring on the shank instead and tie the (pop-up) bait on.

Thats pretty much my choice for snowman or pop up set-ups, and sometimes bottom baits. 

You get more freedom of movement, and to some extent, even with bottom baits, it resets, or can be taken, after a missed take. 

[elmoputney]

34 minutes ago, salokcinnodrog said:

Potato salad... 😅

 

Try using a free running rig ring on the shank instead and tie the (pop-up) bait on.

Thats pretty much my choice for snowman or pop up set-ups, and sometimes bottom baits. 

You get more freedom of movement, and to some extent, even with bottom baits, it resets, or can be taken, after a missed take. 

Potato salad is a bit wrong though isnt it, when you think chips, roast, bombay potatoes, even mash, potato salad is never the one I would reach for, I'm sure carp would agree 😀

I've tried hook swivels before and find them a bit of a faff, I think rig rings may be the same, I really want to try and keep it simple and quick, I'm starting to think a hair or bait screw is probably about as hard as I want to make it,

I quite the elliot gray one on my last pic simple and easy to tie and with less added bits on and I can adjust the hair length if required