chillfactor Posted March 22, 2016 Report Share Posted March 22, 2016 Completely agree fella , I've said before you need the lead on these set ups to make sure the fish is only left with a short rig to deal with. salokcinnodrog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) In my opinion the lead release system for heli setups is the most dangerous item of tackle in recent years Hmmmm I've avoided this discussion on this and other forums as I'm on the fence. I don't use them myself for the reason you state but the more I think about it the less I'm averse to their use. IMO the safest rig is the one that lands the fish safely and I do believe the system will give you a better chance of that. If you get snapped off the line will no longer be tight therefore the leadcore could still fall under its own weight and become snagged allowing the fish to escape. Like I say, not entirely convinced either way so will continue to avoid for the time being. Edited March 23, 2016 by yonny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 i wouldnt contemplate using a chod without a heli safe, poor fish gets its face smashed in otherwise. I get round this by either fishing the chod on a short boom (like a short HSR) or tying a stop knot between the hooklink and the lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkitson Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 (edited) No the fish only gets its face smashed in if there is slack between the bottom of the hooklink and the lead, which if the bottom bead is used correctly there won't be. Point of fact I never use chod rigs, as for my money there are better ways of presenting a pop up in any situation than a chod rig, so my lead is always at least 6 inches from the hook anyway. The heli safe stopping the fish getting its face bashed in assumes firstly that there will be slack between the hook and the lead while playing the fish, which there shouldn't be, and assumes that the lead will snag up on something during the fight, which It shouldn't. If the line snaps the leader will sink under its own weight, but the heavier end will sink first/further. If that is a lead then the end the fish can escape from will trail up allowing the fish to escape. If there is no lead then the longest length of leadcore will sink. Given that during the fight this will invariably be the end that the mainline was attached to there is a much higher chance of this end snagging up. The fish cannot get past what is left of the heli safe system so will be totally teathered. I agree that a safe rig is one that allows a fish to be landed, but not with a total lack of consideration for what happens if it goes wrong. A good safe rig will take both into account, which this doesn't. Edited March 23, 2016 by adamkitson salokcinnodrog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkitson Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 I get round this by either fishing the chod on a short boom (like a short HSR). So a HSR then? Not a chod rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted March 23, 2016 Report Share Posted March 23, 2016 HSR for me is with the boom horizontal and weighted. Not sure about Yonny but I have fished a chod with a short boom unweighted sitting vertical. It can allow the rig to spin freely 360 in silt or weed where normal style can be restricted from the curved hooklink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonny Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 So a HSR then? Not a chod rig. Call it what you want fella. It's fished up the leader, like a chod, but constructed like a HSR. dalthegooner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkitson Posted March 24, 2016 Report Share Posted March 24, 2016 (edited) Call it what you want fella. It's fished up the leader, like a chod, but constructed like a HSR. Perhaps I was a little pedantic. Edited March 24, 2016 by adamkitson yonny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkitson Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Hmm, have just had a thought, I guess a heli safe system would be preferable if fishing a rotary rig without a leader, i.e a naked chod, something on tubing, or otherwise a rotary system where the main line is tied off below the hooklink. A crack off or break during a fight is much more likely to be at the knot, so it makes little difference if the lead is still there or not, and dropping the lead would help in getting the fish up and out of the weed and onto the bank. I am personally trying to remove leaders from my fishing as much as possible. I already don't use them for inline lead setups, or lead clips, but still do for rotary setups. Does anyone fish helicopter rigs or non-naked chod rigs on just tubing rather than a leader? If that would work I'd be able to bung all the leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 It's just a matter of finding the right size beads for the tubing so it can slide off . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkitson Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Hmm, yeah. Didn't think about not being able to use the no trace beads, which are great IMO. a sticky bead on tubing would just leave them with tubing instead of the leader. Ok, probably best solution would be heli's and standard chods on safe zone/dark matter leaders with no trace beads and no heli safe system, and naked chods on heli safe, again with no trace beads. I really wish some other manufacturers would produce some of this stuff. Sounding like a right "friend of Danny" but the no trace beads are genius, and if you have to use a leader and don't want to use leadcore (which is allowed on my waters) the safe zone/dark matter range are hard to top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 These are what you need if your looking at bead on tubing, just as a top bead , as the lead will of already gone in a break this will leave one end of the tubing completely bead free for the rig to pass over . The other bead will also slide with little pressure. adamkitson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkitson Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Thanks Chillfactor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Pardon me fellas . I've read the last few posts and having difficulty following it . Phil or Adam , the reason for tubing as opposed to naked is ? Humour me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillfactor Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Because that's what Adam asked about & fancies trying , I just pointed out how it could be done. Perhaps the lake Adam fishes you suffer a lot of cut offs this would certainly help with that, without the need for a leader which is what he is trying to achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkitson Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Yup, all of the above. Also naked has its place, fished over weed with a critically balanced weighted chod rig with nothing on the line to weigh the pop up down. Super slack line of course otherwise it'd just pull into the weed. However if the wind is blowing debris around the lake and it's being fished over "chod" rather than weed then a bit more weight to hold it down in the form of a weighted leader or tubing allows you to stay a little more in touch with it, even back lead under the tip and fish semi-slack, with the pop up sunk by the tubing/leader rather than any weight on the hooklink. Naked is much more likely to be blown around by line drag and water movement than with some weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmarket Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Thanks men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooseman Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Adam I've successfully fished a rotary setup on tubing, the top bead being oversized with a short piece of dry spaghetti under it to keep in place. The bottom bead pushed down onto a long tail rubber to prevent it from snapping the tubing when playing a fish. Going back to something mentioned earlier in the thread (Can't remember who) my opinion is also that dropping the lead with rotary/chod setups on leadcore, will make the rig more dangerous. cyborx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkitson Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Yeah I'm not a fan of dropping the lead on a rotary rig with any kind of leader. Shall be playing around with the tubing approach, although it presents issues as well as solving them, and begs the question, what is the difference between leaving a fish with a meter of tungsten tubing, and leaving the fish with a meter long leader. I personally like the idea of a naked/on the line setup with a lead drop system, and a leader setup with a fixed lead. Always tubing for lead clips and safety lead drop setups with tubing for inlines. I'm out for a few nights later in the week, and can foresee myself using every one of those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooseman Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Adam, if you fish a rotary on tubing, there really is no way to leave a fish with the tubing if you get a snap up. Due to the nature of the material, which remember is running "On" the line not attached to it, the beads and hooklink will come off it, or it will simply part if put under any tension. Try it in your hands, And I'll assume you were generalising when you say a "Meter" of leader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkitson Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 And I'll assume you were generalising when you say a "Meter" of leader? Yeah just from my own fishing, I use 1m leaders, they seem plenty long enough to me. Ahhh, is this where the "leadcore is lethal" argument comes from? People who use long lengths of the stuff? If so no wonder I've never really got it. Seems a bit of a small issue to be so hotly discussed, between leadcore or any other sinking leader, but yeah, if people are using 2m or more then I would probably have to readjust my thinking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Yeah just from my own fishing, I use 1m leaders, they seem plenty long enough to me. Ahhh, is this where the "leadcore is lethal" argument comes from? People who use long lengths of the stuff? If so no wonder I've never really got it. Seems a bit of a small issue to be so hotly discussed, between leadcore or any other sinking leader, but yeah, if people are using 2m or more then I would probably have to readjust my thinking! It only takes 6inches to catch around a twig or snag if a fish swims in a circle! Also a well known angler was advocating a length of leadcore around 10feet long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beanz Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 It only takes 6inches to catch around a twig or snag if a fish swims in a circle! Also a well known angler was advocating a length of leadcore around 10feet long. Hey, if you want to pull your hair out. I once worked out it only takes 9" of leadcore to use as a boom on HSR with a 15mm pop up to do away with any putty or shot dalthegooner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamkitson Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 It only takes 6inches to catch around a twig or snag if a fish swims in a circle! Also a well known angler was advocating a length of leadcore around 10feet long. You could say the same about a 6" braided hooklink with a swivel on the end! Leadcore is in my opinion as safe as the user makes it. 10feet of anything apart from main line is frankly, ridiculous! dalthegooner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salokcinnodrog Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 You could say the same about a 6" braided hooklink with a swivel on the end! Leadcore is in my opinion as safe as the user makes it. 10feet of anything apart from main line is frankly, ridiculous! Problem is, you try to snap 6inches of 40lb leadcore from a standing start, then try the same with a 15lb hooklink. It is likely that you can snap the hooklink, but almost definitely not the leadcore. As for the hooklink with swivel on it, the hook can still be ejected, there is minimal inherent weight. Yet with the leadcore, even if only 6inches long, the inherent weight of the leadcore will stop the hook being ejected. A carp can eject a hook, even barbed, if there is no weight on it. As soon as you add weight, this ejection is prevented, as it pulls the hook down in the lip, and it makes a fresh hookhold, or stops the hook lifting up and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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