Hooking Potential and Hooklink Material

[garysj01]

I have watched carp for many years dealing with my rigs, i have experimented a lot, i have read a lot, do you think the humble bottom rig could be improved on?.

 

Once straightened out any bottom rig only has a certain percentage of hooking capability, dependant on feeding and the direction a carp approaches your rig.

 

If cast out and left to fall into a heap, even though you run the risk of the hooklink looping up, the chances of a carp hooking itself are improved slightly.

 

We all know about the 360 pop up rig which can possibly hook a carp, if it's approached from any direction, but do you think we could improve on the bottom rig.

 

Me, i don't think we can improve on the bottom rig itself, but i think we can improve the hooking potential, with baiting and making sure the rig is approached in the right way......again all down to watching our quarry and adapting everything else to suit.

 

What are your thoughts?.

[rusty1664]

Its a tough question, my thoughts are that to a mere mortal like myself improving on the bottom bait rig is hard but as time will tell variations will be discovered and components designed that will enhance its potential - again they may be new concepts or ones that have gone out of vogue perhaps. On a lot of waters the rigs people cast out fall into 2 categories.

1) Tried and tested

2) Latest popular rig with media coverage

 

Do you think that carp become used to a certain type of rig and therefor become able to deal with it through repetition?

As soon as something is cast out that is different to that in some way does that learning process start again?

 

With the idea of improving rigs by watching our quarry I totally agree and it is a slow but rewarding process. It is slightly easier to tailor the baiting and approach at close quarters but a whole lot harder at range when 99 times out of 100 you will not be able to see exactly what is going on below the surface and how the rig is presented - going on the other factors of hitting the clip, feeling the lead down and tying the rig in a way that reduces tangles as much as possible.

 

I know a lot of this sounds like ramblings but with the short time i have available to fish i want to maximise my chances and every edge counts!

[liamclose]

As ive said before for as long we rely on a lead to prick the fish for us we will have are backs to the wall!

Ive watched carp come take and eject my rigs with no problem but when i strike as soon as they suck the bait in before the lead even moves there hooked almost every time!

When floater fishing my take to hooked fish ratio is not far off 100% miss the odd one of coarse, but because im fishing for the take not the run im hooking alot more takes!

[Guest keenook]

I like to think the rig hooks the Carp, rather than leads, to me the lead is secondary.

I've single tone takes on tiny leads and freelind baits in the margins!

 

I'm even designing a new rig, and looks very different, and effective, will try it on a runs water to check the hookholds out, and no don't even ask, as this is truley a new rig,That could realy be a winner.

It does not matter from which angle the Carp take the bait either!

Watch this space!

[johnplumb]

I like to think the rig hooks the Carp, rather than leads, to me the lead is secondary.

I've single tone takes on tiny leads and freelind baits in the margins!

 

I'm even designing a new rig, and looks very different, and effective, will try it on a runs water to check the hookholds out, and no don't even ask, as this is truley a new rig,That could realy be a winner.

It does not matter from which angle the Carp take the bait either!

Watch this space!

 

But you already have a rig that catches 90% (or more) of the fish that pick it up , why would you want to change that ?

[peteblount]

im fairly new to carp fishing as all i had ever done was fishing with a float and i swore then no way would i ever get into carp fishing per se but i have and i love it i love reading up about alternative rigs and i love trying them out, at the moment i dont catch very many but hopefully with experience my catch rate will go up. the question can we improve bottom rigs set me thinking and i hope someone can answer it it may very well have been asked before so here goes. what were the rigs like years ago and were they successful and do you think the rigs you are using now are better

[garysj01]

I think its fare to say we all get done between 6 to 10 times before we eventually hook into a carp. There are more factors to consider rather than just focusing on one aspect ie..... the rig. You have to consider how the carp are feeding and if possible asses the direction the fish are approaching your rig. I still think the lips of a carp are far more sensitive than we realise as a lot of rigs get ejected without the lead even moving. Far more rigs get sucked in and blown out with in a second or two, so in order for the rig to work effectively, the hook has to catch some where. Common sense would tell you the bigger the hook the better, its just basic physics, a big wide hook has more hooking potential than a small narrower gaped hook. Just my opinion, anyone care to add to this?

[Guest keenook]

I like to think the rig hooks the Carp, rather than leads, to me the lead is secondary.

I've single tone takes on tiny leads and freelind baits in the margins!

 

I'm even designing a new rig, and looks very different, and effective, will try it on a runs water to check the hookholds out, and no don't even ask, as this is truley a new rig,That could realy be a winner.

It does not matter from which angle the Carp take the bait either!

Watch this space!

 

But you already have a rig that catches 90% (or more) of the fish that pick it up , why would you want to change that ?

Hi the thing is John, the more strings to your bow, the better!

This rig is tottaly different and is perfect for wafters, where as my other rig is a bottom bait rig, the mechanics of the two are so different'

[snowmanstevo]

I've watched the Korda videos and I don't doubt we get done quiet a bit .....

 

But just how many times

 

I wound in my maggot rig today after 6 hrs of inactivity found a carp in the margins lowered it in and watched the fish take the rig and hook itself .... So am I missing something because I never got done once it hooked 1st time ????

[beanz]

I think its fare to say we all get done between 6 to 10 times before we eventually hook into a carp. There are more factors to consider rather than just focusing on one aspect ie..... the rig. You have to consider how the carp are feeding and if possible asses the direction the fish are approaching your rig. I still think the lips of a carp are far more sensitive than we realise as a lot of rigs get ejected without the lead even moving. Far more rigs get sucked in and blown out with in a second or two, so in order for the rig to work effectively, the hook has to catch some where. Common sense would tell you the bigger the hook the better, its just basic physics, a big wide hook has more hooking potential than a small narrower gaped hook. Just my opinion, anyone care to add to this?

 

im not sure about the direction playing a part but then i use runners and a enough slack to give the movement needed. when not being able to see the fish take my bait i base my thinking on them getting hooked by them ejecting the rig( my leads are just casting weights) i had 7 out of the 9 in a small lake in 3 months back in spring using mainly pop-ups and 2 on bottoms but the rigs all had long hairs....i think a long hair allows the bait the travel out the way of the jet flow as they blow out meaning less pressure on the bait compared to being in the mouth or on the lips, this i think allows the weight of the point to turn and drop more freely meaning direction they take from doesnt matter. the only false beep i had over that time was a liner, which had me believe was a run until i tighten up and see the line was taken right in front of me in my deep margin...i kicked my self for not having a rig there lol

[garysj01]

I think its fare to say we all get done between 6 to 10 times before we eventually hook into a carp. There are more factors to consider rather than just focusing on one aspect ie..... the rig. You have to consider how the carp are feeding and if possible asses the direction the fish are approaching your rig. I still think the lips of a carp are far more sensitive than we realise as a lot of rigs get ejected without the lead even moving. Far more rigs get sucked in and blown out with in a second or two, so in order for the rig to work effectively, the hook has to catch some where. Common sense would tell you the bigger the hook the better, its just basic physics, a big wide hook has more hooking potential than a small narrower gaped hook. Just my opinion, anyone care to add to this?

 

im not sure about the direction playing a part but then i use runners and a enough slack to give the movement needed. when not being able to see the fish take my bait i base my thinking on them getting hooked by them ejecting the rig( my leads are just casting weights) i had 7 out of the 9 in a small lake in 3 months back in spring using mainly pop-ups and 2 on bottoms but the rigs all had long hairs....i think a long hair allows the bait the travel out the way of the jet flow as they blow out meaning less pressure on the bait compared to being in the mouth or on the lips, this i think allows the weight of the point to turn and drop more freely meaning direction they take from doesnt matter. the only false beep i had over that time was a liner, which had me believe was a run until i tighten up and see the line was taken right in front of me in my deep margin...i kicked my self for not having a rig there lol

 

I do agree with a longer hair, for bottom baits,

[beanz]

so what do you think separates a bottom or a pop up...why a long hair on one but not the other???? whats your thinking gary???

[garysj01]

Mate i very rarely use pop ups, i don't know enough, but the hook on a pop up is already cocked if you know what i mean, where a bottom bait isn't, if i do use a pop up its a 360 rig with the boilie very close to the hook, the thinking is the hook will turn in any direction that the carp comes from, as soon as the lips touch the hook, its set to hook in the bottom lip, like i say i rarely use pop ups, i much prefer encouraging the fish to grub around for small particles, iv'e seen to many carp spook from a blatant pop up. I know a few will disagree, but thats just my way

[beanz]

blatant?? you talking hi vis??

 

if just baiting with boilies, and not a tight patch, with a pop up of the same mix, the carp will be above it,as it has to move, so at most the hook bait will look slightly bigger than the freebies if all the same size....so it goes down and its in before it expects it......i never used to have faith in pop ups but over the last few season i recon iv upped my catch rate after using them more frequently...the extra confidence knowing that a fish can move my rig and my hook isnt masked in bottom debris is defiantly a bonus.

[johnplumb]

 

Interesting little vid filming a pop up rig at 1min 30 he has a fish take the pop up , now how i see it the pop up takes the hook high into the fishes mouth alowing it to simply blow the rig out in that instance a longer hair would alow the hook to to hang nearer the bottom lip with more chance of of catching . Make sense?

[Guest keenook]

Yes Interesting, however my new rig the hook will hang down aggressively, and the hook has no knot so free movement is achived, also a braid hair for the balanced hook bait, now that's a tad different.

 

Edit, Thanks John you just gave me a spark to make it even better!

 

Now I'm realy excited!!!

[blanksalot]

Yes Interesting, however my new rig the hook will hang down aggressively, and the hook has no knot so free movement is achived, also a braid hair for the balanced hook bait, now that's a tad different.

 

Edit, Thanks John you just gave me a spark to make it even better!

 

Interesting..

 

http://www.carp-fishing-tactics.com/image-files/spinning-hook-method.jpg

[Guest keenook]

Nice, but not even close!

[beanz]

 

Interesting little vid filming a pop up rig at 1min 30 he has a fish take the pop up , now how i see it the pop up takes the hook high into the fishes mouth alowing it to simply blow the rig out in that instance a longer hair would alow the hook to to hang nearer the bottom lip with more chance of of catching . Make sense?

 

does to me john

[chillfactor]

Good thread this lads given me some food for thought on improving my rigs. The few times I have been carp fishing this year has seen me strike into nothing after one toners a couple of times which always gets you thinking and wondering, but then the next cast one toner and fish on...It's just trying to work out what might of happened different between the two takes

[Guest keenook]

 

Interesting little vid filming a pop up rig at 1min 30 he has a fish take the pop up , now how i see it the pop up takes the hook high into the fishes mouth alowing it to simply blow the rig out in that instance a longer hair would alow the hook to to hang nearer the bottom lip with more chance of of catching . Make sense?

 

does to me john

Me too, a lot of thought has gone into this one, we shall see.

[chillfactor]

 

Interesting little vid filming a pop up rig at 1min 30 he has a fish take the pop up , now how i see it the pop up takes the hook high into the fishes mouth alowing it to simply blow the rig out in that instance a longer hair would alow the hook to to hang nearer the bottom lip with more chance of of catching . Make sense?

Looking at the video a heavy bottom bait would of been allot better ... And I can see exactly your point John makes sense to me

[garysj01]

After watching the vid a number of times i still thing the 360 would of hooked better. And i think in that situation a bottom bait would of out fished that pop up, especially when you see how the carp are feeding. The pop up was to blatantly high for me, and the hair was coming off the back of the hook and not the bend. The 360 rig, you would have the pop up right at the top of the hook, and i use a small pop up compared with the size of the hook.

[johnplumb]

To me watching something like this throws up a few points .

Is it a good idea to fish a pop up that is totally different to the freebies around it ?

Having the pop up close to the hook may well end up in you missing a larger fish , ( larger the fish larger the mouth , more chance of the fish just blowing everything clear away )

That using a bottom bait that has been critically balanced ( drilled and cork inserted ) may be a better than a very buoyant ready made pop up.

The way a fish feeds ( and unless you are able to watch this there is nothing you can do about it ) will make a huge difference to how many times it will get caught .

[garysj01]

The problem is, without video footage we are only seeing the carp feeding from on top of them, we can't actually see how they are mouthing baits. As every fish feeds in a slightly different manner, there can be no rig that is 100% i would guess and say we maybe have a 50 to 60% chance at best, would you agree with that John