360 rig or Withy Pool Rig

[fishingaddict]

Anyone tried these rigs. I have tried fishing singles this winter on standard pop-up rig with little luck. Any tips or feedback on this rig would be helpful such as baiting tactics, bait size hook size etc.

 

Cheers

[Gaz]

Anyone tried these rigs. I have tried fishing singles this winter on standard pop-up rig with little luck. Any tips or feedback on this rig would be helpful such as baiting tactics, bait size hook size etc.

 

Cheers[/quote

 

you will find a lot of differant replys on here regarding the 360 rig. it can cause a lot of dammage to the carps mouth, they say it should only be used if there are no small carp in the lake you are fishing. there are plenty of fantastic rigs you could use withiut the risk of the 360. this is only my opinion though, i will prob get a bit of stick for this but i would never use this rig personally

[salokcinnodrog]

Anyone tried these rigs. I have tried fishing singles this winter on standard pop-up rig with little luck. Any tips or feedback on this rig would be helpful such as baiting tactics, bait size hook size etc.

 

Cheers[/quote

 

you will find a lot of differant replys on here regarding the 360 rig. it can cause a lot of dammage to the carps mouth, they say it should only be used if there are no small carp in the lake you are fishing. there are plenty of fantastic rigs you could use withiut the risk of the 360. this is only my opinion though, i will prob get a bit of stick for this but i would never use this rig personally

 

No Stick from me!

 

Extra complication, extra things to go wrong and possible extra risk of Damage if used on the wrong Fish!

 

Next point what size hook do you use usually? How do you bait up usually, what size bait do you use usually?

 

Then just fish the same size as you would normally

[tonybranno]

Questions.....

 

1. Why do you feel that you have to resort to these 2 particular rigs?

 

2. Are you sure your standard pop up rigs are not working?

 

My bet is that you got your location all wrong in the first place then lay the blame to the rigs you where using.

[fishingaddict]

cheers good food for thought there.

 

Usually use pop ups when fishing singles then bait heavier when using bottom baits. I've often read or heard that if you bait freebies with pop ups the fish can miss the popped up bait as they are feeding to close to the bottom.

 

Normally fish 12 or 14 mm baits.

[fishingaddict]

oh and size 8 or 10 hook.

[nickjohnson]

a simple mono d ring is as good as anything for pop ups takes 1min to tie

[moorsey]

I agree with all of the above and would just add that, if the fish aren't really "having it" and could be feeding fairly delicately, I wouldn't be offering them a hook with the additional weight of a swivel to make the bait act even more unnaturally.

[salokcinnodrog]

cheers good food for thought there.

 

Usually use pop ups when fishing singles then bait heavier when using bottom baits. I've often read or heard that if you bait freebies with pop ups the fish can miss the popped up bait as they are feeding to close to the bottom.

 

Normally fish 12 or 14 mm baits.

 

That may be true, but consider how close you could be fishing the Pop-up to the Bottom. If it is only popped up the Hook shank distance away from the bottom then you may be able to get the fish feeding comfortably on Freebies. Yet it you pop-up another centimetre or so then it may well be too far.

It also depends on how heavy (quantity) you are baiting with Freebies, and what your free bait is. If you are using Particles as your free bait then a Pop-up may well be a waste of time anyway.

 

PVA Bags are often fished with a Pop-up. The Hooklink and hookshank is hidden under the Bag Contents, that counts as freebies , it also means that the Hookbait is often the first thing the fish can take as it is on top of the pile.

 

Remember this Rule in Carp Fishing:

 

In Carp Fishing there are no Rules!

[kevtaylor]

Anyone tried these rigs. I have tried fishing singles this winter on standard pop-up rig with little luck. Any tips or feedback on this rig would be helpful such as baiting tactics, bait size hook size etc.

 

Cheers

 

Tried and tested both, happy with both if used on right type of water (stock sizes).

 

IMO the Withy Pool rig is the best, I've got total confidence in it coz its saved me from a blank a few times. In a week session my mate and I did on Bluebell a year back, the Withy Pool rig outfished all others, we were the only ones to catch consistently on the whole complex.

 

Use it with boilies or fake corn/maize, its the dogs!

 

I've since tied mine in a combi using a section of stiff IQ to give it further anti eject properties and help the hook push away from the lead.

 

Get on it mate - seriously good. I dont go along with all this why use it over simple pop-up rigs talk. Its good so try it/what you got to loose?

 

Good luck

[salokcinnodrog]

Anyone tried these rigs. I have tried fishing singles this winter on standard pop-up rig with little luck. Any tips or feedback on this rig would be helpful such as baiting tactics, bait size hook size etc.

 

Cheers

 

Tried and tested both, happy with both if used on right type of water (stock sizes).

 

IMO the Withy Pool rig is the best, I've got total confidence in it coz its saved me from a blank a few times. In a week session my mate and I did on Bluebell a year back, the Withy Pool rig outfished all others, we were the only ones to catch consistently on the whole complex.

 

Use it with boilies or fake corn/maize, its the dogs!

 

I've since tied mine in a combi using a section of stiff IQ to give it further anti eject properties and help the hook push away from the lead.

 

Get on it mate - seriously good. I dont go along with all this why use it over simple pop-up rigs talk. Its good so try it/what you got to loose?

 

Good luck

 

Sure that may be true.

Think about this though;

The Bent Hook rig was published, and then used by all and his dog, YET it was designed for Particular Fish on a Particular Water. The publishing and Recommending of the Bent Hook Rig was aimed at Big Fish, but because of its publishing Small Carp started appearing with Serious Mouth Damage, that was directly attributable to the Bent Hooks that were on the Market at the time. It was seen as the LEVELLER in Carp Fishing.

It was never intended for use on EVERY Carp Water

I'm not condoning its use in any way, but I used to use it on BIG FISH ONLY Waters where the Carp were doing the same thing that they were on Fox Pool, and the Mouth Damage was negligible (equal to ordinary hooks). Yet it used to damage the Mouthes of small Carp that would pick up the rig and so many waters Banned its use.

 

I'm not saying that the Withy Pool rig is anywhere near as damaging as I have not seen its effects on Waters I fish as no-one has needed it. The main things that MY Friends and I change are the Hair Length, Rig Length etc. We have not found a Rig that has outfished the Withy Pool rig on the few occasions we have tried it.

 

Next question, WHY do you think it is called the Withy Pool Rig? It was used first on Withy Pool to cover a PARTICULAR situation on a PARTICULAR Water, that they could not use because the Bent Hook rig was Banned.

 

If you really want to get into Complicated rigs (and the Withy Pool rig is complicated) vs Standard Rigs have a read of the Complicated Rigs thread I started ages ago:

 

https://forum.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=9536&highlight=complicated+rigs

[kevtaylor]

If you really want to get into Complicated rigs (and the Withy Pool rig is complicated) vs Standard Rigs

 

Not in the slightest do I want to get into deeper discussions.

 

I wish I'd have kept my gob shut

 

I dont intend to use the 360 anymore due to hook concerns (not that I have experienced any damage yet) and bouyancy problems, with the sheer weight of the hook.

 

The withy rig works as do simpler ones, thats my only real point, IMO its hooking properties (firm bottom lip), are better than any simpler version I have used. But there will on occasions be times when the height of the pop-up is simply too much, and alternatives are required.

 

Also its nice to be different on threads coz you always get a bite

[zammmo]

 

I dont intend to use the 360 anymore due to hook concerns (not that I have experienced any damage yet) and bouyancy problems, with the sheer weight of the hook.

Nice one m8 apart from the fact that it can cause damage,albeit to smaller fish there are a number of other disadvantages with the 360...

[french_carp_crew]

i agree with nickjohnson, 360 can wreck the carps mouths

[stes]

i use a withy rig on all my pop up rigs n they allways get good hook holds with little damage to the mouth

[kevtaylor]

In spite of the views of many on these forums and recent bad press in the comics - I was surprised to see the 360 rig (with long shank nailer)published as the rig of the year in the Richworth Linear annual publication.

[moorsey]

I haven't seen the publication so I shouldn't comment but I will. I used to be a bailiff with Linear and a field tester fo Richworth but unless the publication has a "health warning" for the rig I think that it is disgusting.

[salokcinnodrog]

After playing about with a Withy Pool rig in the Bath, using a Soft Tubing and the line pulled at various angles I can't see it doing any damage.

 

The 360 Rig causes me a lot of concern. For it to be publicised without a Safety Feature is very worrying.

 

I think there are far Better Pop-up rigs about than the 360rig. Even a standard D-rig or a Swimmer Rig is I think a better option. There was a Rig that Ken Townley published in Big Carp by Tim Paisley that I think has a very effective potential. Yet I don't often see it published. In fact now thinking about it, its on the Rig Tying Sticky, but not with its full diagrams. I'll find it later and put it up

[salokcinnodrog]

Knew I had it:

 

 

Also the Pic from the Basic Rig Tying sticky

 

 

Slightly different from the Ken Townley rig, but you see the similarity just without the Ring near the Hook eye

[moorsey]

I think the one you're after Nick might be the drop down rig.

I totally agree with your comments about the 360 and I should have been clearer about the withy pool rig. I think because the latter is formed using tubing it shouldn't do any damage but i agree that there are simpler rigs that work just as well if not better.

[Gaz]

I think the one you're after Nick might be the drop down rig.

I totally agree with your comments about the 360 and I should have been clearer about the withy pool rig. I think because the latter is formed using tubing it shouldn't do any damage but i agree that there are simpler rigs that work just as well if not better.

the drop down rig is featured in the fox book of rigs i think

[salokcinnodrog]

I think the one you're after Nick might be the drop down rig.

I totally agree with your comments about the 360 and I should have been clearer about the withy pool rig. I think because the latter is formed using tubing it shouldn't do any damage but i agree that there are simpler rigs that work just as well if not better.

 

I think it was me who wasn't clear on the Withy Pool Rig

 

I tried it using Shrink Tubing and Plastic Tubing.

 

With the Shrink Tubing it obviously relied on the Shrinkage to hold its curved position.

 

With the version I tied up using Plastic Tubing I used an Olivette to hold the Curve. When that was pulled the Olivette slid and the Tubing straightened.

 

I think not much chance of Mouth Damage with that!

 

All I know that the Rig Pic I put up is that it was Ken Townley who Published it. I just read the Chapter in Big Carp and the rig itself was given no name

[barnabus]

do you think it would be possible for a withy pool rig to be used with a zig rig?

[coops_northants]

do you think it would be possible for a withy pool rig to be used with a zig rig?

 

Personally no, but then i really cannot see any reason to. what benefit would it have???

 

I use pop ups a fair bit for my fishing and i just like the up section to have a slight curve for the simple fact if a carp picks it up from the back the bottom lip hits the curve (normally fluro) and this works to spin the hook round so the point is facing inwards.

 

The withy works similarly but would IMO lose this property if fished on a zig, not to mention the factor of weight into the equasion.