beanz

please dont take this the wrong way......but id argue that with that many turns it has exactly the same mechanics as a knotless knot, the two extra turns are meaningless

blatant?? you talking hi vis?? if just baiting with boilies, and not a tight patch, with a pop up of the same mix, the carp will be above it,as it has to move, so at most the hook bait will look slightly bigger than the freebies if all the same size....so it goes down and its in before it expects it......i never used to have faith in pop ups but over the last few season i recon iv upped my catch rate after using them more frequently...the extra confidence knowing that a fish can move my rig and my hook isnt masked in bottom debris is defiantly a bonus.

so what do you think separates a bottom or a pop up...why a long hair on one but not the other???? whats your thinking gary???

im not sure about the direction playing a part but then i use runners and a enough slack to give the movement needed. when not being able to see the fish take my bait i base my thinking on them getting hooked by them ejecting the rig( my leads are just casting weights) i had 7 out of the 9 in a small lake in 3 months back in spring using mainly pop-ups and 2 on bottoms but the rigs all had long hairs....i think a long hair allows the bait the travel out the way of the jet flow as they blow out meaning less pressure on the bait compared to being in the mouth or on the lips, this i think allows the weight of the point to turn and drop more freely meaning direction they take from doesnt matter. the only false beep i had over that time was a liner, which had me believe was a run until i tighten up and see the line was taken right in front of me in my deep margin...i kicked my self for not having a rig there lol

It's also to do with that fact that when fishing a critically balanced bait, you're taking the weight away from the shank/eye of the hook and making the point the heaviest part - which as you say makes the point naturally point downwards. It's a rig that looks odd out of the water, but when you get how it works, is pretty clever wouldnt just 2-3 turns on kk be the same...im yet to understand what the extra turns after the hair do???

oh ka-heeeev you know my thoughts on the search function ...93 pages! i going to have to pass on a 90% hook up rate unless.........

my problem i get get my head around is....when its blown out ,the hair is folded back over the same twisted line on the shank as it would be if its just a standard KK. the KD bit plays no part on ejection..........or does it???? educate me

so is the kk less effectual ??? and could the same effect be gain by less turns on a kk???

i cant get my head around how its any different to a standard knotless knot once in the fishes mouth....maybe with a stiff hair but not with limp braid

i had my 1st 30 and a few other good fish on 20 inch links, i was on a weedy water at the time, over particles as well...tho when i tried it later on in the season and im sure i got done without a bleep, just too many rolling over me to have not had anything...but i didnt really have my head together at the time...with hind sight i think id cleared alot of the weed and short rigs would of scored. so yeah, definitely think too long can work against you, but does have its place, critically balance settling on top of weed id go for a long link.

but would it?? im thinking that with a runner on a slack line it should fly back as far as its sucked my main bug is im worry that it could increase the case of tangling as the bait is so near the lead with a limp braid link, i got the small bags, so to have the bait in one corner and the lead in the other it would need to be an inch, two at most. i need to get out on the bank to have a play to put mind at ease and gain some confidence with it as the one i played with at home was about 4" and i wasnt happy with how the link looped/curved....it seemed like it would A) stick up off the bottom, and B) as said, risk tangling the other thing that got my head spinning was reading a few post about hook pulls, and lengthening the rig would this make a difference on a runner/slack

i daren't kev i dont buy into the bolt rig...dropping the lead fair enough ,but the need for the weight to hook them for me??? nah! indication is always top of my list for lead set up. the last few iv had out had cut the hair clean off,and the hook hold was solid in bang bottom center, but whether it take holds on ejection or the line tightening im undecided though if it is the latter then why/how would it be bottom center unless the fish swims backwards away from my rods??? the would be more holds in the scissors surely???? so if the length just needs to be just enough for the way the fish is feeding, so on a safe odds side slightly longer has to be better than short???? the reason behind these questions is i got a rapide loader, iv never used solids much before as the 1st few filled by bivvy on the cast and i get on with mesh so much easier. so with my standard 8-9 inch rig it just seem pointless as the baits nearly on the lead anyway ..so while thinking how short i could go, the original question popped into my head. do people have a preferred lead set up when using solids?? it would help if my tongue/fingers could relay whats in my head

i used to believe that having the lead near to the bait was an alien object to the fish and it was best to have it as far away as poss...but now with so many leads being dropped on the hot spots it seems less likely to spook 'em. with lead clips i can see where different rig lengths can help/hinder. my thinking nowadays on runners is that as long as the fish can take up the slack without resistance then the length is almost meaningless. do you think on a running set up thats not on a tight line the length makes a difference???? and if so, why???

it must just be me iv always interpreted bait application/strategy as freebies and location/spots as rig placement.

but this line is misleading...as a hivis pop up i dont think hooks them because they are feeding, it the "what thats" factor and they mouth it,may be with no intention of feeding

what do you mean by that nige..the pattern of bait around hook or pre baiting ....as if you mean where you place your hook bait??...you should make it clearer ... iv had enough on just a single hook baits to think the "baiting" is for the anglers confidence and the bait makers pocket.. a sharp in hook in the right place is 100 times ...make that infinity times how much bait and how you apply it

just read this thread a few times and started to wonder about hook size:idea: forget about the stock levels for a moment...10lbers it seems get tripped more often than the 30s ...guessing that most will use 10-4 hook for all sizes...but the size of mouth differ far more than the next size hook up.. so could it be that we arent using a bigger enough hook for the reason that these bigger fish dont get hooked??...if they are sucking it in then IMO they cant know its a trap...it seem that a lot is wrote about tweaking rigs but all have a standard size hook i remember a link that i think stoogie put up, to a free online mag...that had a really interesting article where the guy had started to use cat fish hooks....it does seem obvious thinking about it that a small hook in a big mouth will have lower chance to hook when being ejected.

i think that knowing why it worked is the hardest thing to actually pin point the real answer...blanking..and all the reasons are logical.

knots..and cause my hook is sharp. the KD has to be the most pointless adaption iv seen on the KK with a limp hair...but it claimed some glory for ken!

bet that was quicker than searching dans posts

i found the thread..but only because i remembered that Dan plowmanccfc posted the link...'perfection loop' in the search gave 461 matches http://www.carp.com/carp-forum/viewtopic.php?t=53343&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=perfection+loop&start=25

so you cant remember the thread name either??

here ya go..the youtube link..life too short to use the search...unless you can remember the thread name

one of the korda lads have started to use it with a short boom, im waiting to see when and who claims to have invented that. CHOD BOOM! i called , back in 2010 but it was and is just a stiff hinge. it did allow the curved hooklink to turn 360 when sitting in silk weed.

anti tangle sleeves. these will stop the hook link curling around the lead on the cast....on a running or lead clip set up.