salokcinnodrog

I just have a genuine interest in bait, im one of those people who likes to understand what works and why

I thought this was an interesting read hopefully you will too
 
part 2: The digestive system and dietary requirements
Hi All
 
This post has taken me a while to get on top of, as there is a vast amount of information on carp nutriention some more helpful than others. In this post I will break it down so that I look at the carps digestive system first and how it is effected by temperature and then will go in to more detail about the types of nutrients that Carp need and why.
 
 
 
Carp and temperature
Carp are cold blooded fish and hence draw their heat from the water around them, hence when the water is hotter ie in the summer the fish will be more active and vice versa in the winter. The carps metabolims just like the carps activity is controlled via the water temperature. A carps digestion iss controlled by enzymes and enzymes have a set temperature that they work best at, if the fishes body temperature is not at the correct level the fish will not be able to metabolise the food as well and hence it will eat less. So in the later part of summer from August through until November the carp are active eating as much as they can ready for winter. This means there digestive system has to be able to handle the large amounts of food they eat. Summers like what we have had this year for carp could prove difficult as the water temperature will reflect the air temperature. This could mean that the period between now and winter for potentail affective carp feeding could be reduced as we have had some very unsummer like weather
 
Carp digestive system
In this section I plan to go in to some detail about the structure of the carps digestive system. But before this I want to clear up a couple of technical terms. The first one is chemical digestion and the second is physical digestion. Chemical digestion is digestion that is undertake by enzymes, the enzymes interact with the food and break it down into small fragments. The other is Physical digestion this is the process of physical movement of the fish ie chewing to break down the food it has eaten in to small pieces.
 
Once a carp has located a food item and it feels is safe to eat it it obtains it by using the mouth and the buccal cavity here it is broken down in to small pieces by phyiscal digestion using its pharyngeal teeth and grind ing the food against leather like pads. The purpose of this is to break the food down small enough ready to enter the gut. Any food that is not need to move forward in to the gut is ejected via the operculae (the gills)
 
 
Here we can see the pharyngeal teeth of a grass carp. These are used to break down the food ready for chemical digestion.
 
The next step in the digestion process is to transport the food from the buccal cavity to the start of the intestine. This is done by passing the ground food along the eosophagus to the start of the intestine and the receptive sack.
 
Carp unlike other fish do not have a stomach and because of this they do not break down there food with acid.Carp have instead an intestine that is twice the lenght of the fish. This will allow for digestion and absorption of the nutrients that the carp requires. As the food moves throught the fish it is broken down in to water soluble parts. This is done by the use of enzymes. Carp have to break down large insolubale molecules such as carbohydrates, protein, lipids and fats so that they can be used by the carp for its growth and maintainance. Below is an explanation of what enzymes are.
 
 
 
This picture shows the lenght of the carp gut. The lenght of the gut makes up for not having a stomach and allows for extra absorption of nutrients
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Enzymes for carp
Enzymes are defined as biological catalysts - catalysts are substances that increase the rate of chemical reactions without being used up. So what does that mean? Well for carp to digest its food it uses these enzymes to help break the food down in to useful products so that it can be used to fuel the carp for movement, growth etc. Another way of thinking about Enzymes is that they are like a glove you wear when it gets cold. The glove itself does not change but it speeds up the rate at which your hands warm up as it traps the warmth given off by your body. Enzymes speed up the breakdown of food but are not altered themselves. Carp have 100s of different types of enzymes in there bodies, all having a variety of different roles and functions. The ones I will be concentrate on are relating only to digestion. The one listed below are the most comon ones used and will give you an idea of the
 
An example of some of the enzymes responsible for the digestion in carp are as follows.
 
To digest Carbohydrates (sugars) Carbohydrases enzymes are needed an example of those are Amylases
 
 
Here is an example of what happens the enzyme break the long sugar molecule up into smaller parts that are easily absorbed.
 
 
 
 
 
 
To digest Proteins a group of enzymes called is required. An example of these are Chymotrypsin and Trypsin.
 
 
 
Protein is broken down in to amino acids which are used for growth and repair in carp. The amino acids are also easily absorbed.
 
 
 
 
There are many more examples of carp enzymes that can be added but the above give you an idea of how they work. Often in baits now adays enzymes are added to the bait. This helps the carp to digest the food and hence encourages the carp to feed. This in tern should allow you to have a greater catch rate.
 
Absorption of nutrients
Once the carp has digested and its food it is absorded into the circulatory system. Like in all animals the circulatory and the digestive systems are linked. Without the interactions of both these systems the carp would not be able to survive as it would not be able to maintain its body functions. The food that it has digested and broken down in to water soluble bits could not be transported around the body if the two systems where not related.
 
I have delibertly simplified the carps digestive system because it would not aid this post to go in to much detail. The next question that should be asked is how can this information help us in the quest to catch carp? Well as we have already seen a carps metabolism is controlled by temperature. In the summer when the water temperature is higher digestion would be more efffective, there for more complex nutrients such as complex carbohydrates, proteins, fats and lipids are more easily digested so it makes sense to feed these in the summer months. These foods also promote growth, just like us the more protein or arbohydrate we eat the bigger we get. The same for carp in the summer they are trying to put on as much as weight as possible to get ready for the winter so they will target foods that will allow them to do this.
 
In winter the carps digestive system will slow down as the water temperature decreases and the ability of the enzymes to funtion at their optimun is decreased. Hence high protein or carbohydrate based bait would not be the best to target a carp with as they may not take the bait due to the effort it would take to digest the food. It would take more energy to digest the food than the carp would recieve from it and hence it would be unfavourable for the carp to do this.
 
Nutrient requirements
 
We have looked at how a carp breaks down it food and what enzymes are involved it is now time to look at what each nutrient does and why it is important to the fish. By having a good understanding of these it will help us to bait more wisely. There is little point in baiting up with a bait that would be great for summer but is next to useless in the winter and vice versa. Below I shall look at each nutrient explain a little about it and why a carp needs it and how this should be related to your fishing.
 
Carbohydrates
Carp like any another animal uses carbohydrates as an energy source for daily activity and like us they will store them as fats if they have to many. Unlike us and because carp do not have a stomach they are not able to break down complex carobohydrates (ones with lots of bonds) or in cold weather as there ability to digest food is reduced to reduced activity of enzyme action. There for in winter it would be advisable to use carbohydrates that are not complex and sweet, this may get you an extra bite as the carp would be more likely to take them as they would be easier to digest.
 
Protiens/amino acids
Carp need amino acids and protiens for growth and repair. Amino acids are used to construct DNA and Protiens. The ten types of amino acids that are needed for good growth in carp are arginine, histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine. Therefore if you are making your own bait and are wondering what type of amino acids would be the best then any of the above would be a good place to start. Remember carp are omnivours and will get a supply of amino acids form there environment. Trail and error will help you to discover the ones they are missing or needing. Also as mentioned above high protein feeds in winter would not be a great idea as it takes to much energy for the carp to break them down. The key to winter baits are high energy but easy to break down and digest.
 
Vitamins
 
Below is a table showing some of the common deficiniencies that can occur if carp do not have enough vitamins within there diet. This chart gives you a good guide about the things you should be aware of when looking at fish carp. It also gives you an idea about the role of individual vitamins and what you could add to your home made boilies. However what I would say here is that Vitamins only need to ne added in very small amounts. If you are not 100% confident with what you are doing do not do it. Buy a good base mix as these will contain the correct vitamins at the correct concentrations.
Vitamin Carp Cyprinus carpio
(mg/kg diet) Major vitamin deficiency signs in carps
Thiamin 2–3 Fin congestion, nervousness, fading of body colour.
Riboflavin 7.0 Skin and fin hemorrhages, mortality.
Pyridoxine 5–6 Nervous disorders
Pantothenic acid 30–50 Poor growth, anemia, skin hemorrhages, exophthalmia.
Nicotinic acid 28 Skin hemorrhages, mortality
Biotin 1 Poor growth
Folic acid N None detected
Vitamin B12 N None detected
Choline 500–600 Fatty liver
Inositol 440 Skin lesions
Ascorbic acid 30–50 Scoliosis and lordosis and impaired collagen formation
Vitamin A 10,000 IU Faded colour, exophthalmia, warped operculum, fin and skin hemorrhages
Vitamin D N Not tested
Vitamin E 200–300 Muscular dystrophy, mortality
Vitamin K N Not tested
 
 
Minerals
Carp need minerals for a variety of reasons these are for normal bone growth, tissue, blood plasma and hemoglobin formations and also for many enzymatic reactions. As minerals are not easy to obtain in an aquatic enviroment they are a very important to carp. In many boilies these are added to the boilie. Also carp will get there minerals from natural sources such as invertibrates. An important mineral that carp need is Calcium, this they absorb from water and the rest they get from their diet. The point here is that Carp need minerals to function and lead a healthy life. Having a good understanding of the dietary requirements of the fish allows us the tailor our bait to the needs of the fish depending on the time of the year.
 
Fat
Carp just like any other animal needs a source of fat as it provides a source of energy and can be used as a fuel store for the winter. In the Autumn you will noticed that carp increase their feeding rates this is because they are building themselves up for winter. As the water temperature drops the carps ability to digest high fat and high protein foods are reduced so they build themselves up before the water temperature drops. However just like us Carp do not need a hugh amount of fat as it will cause damage to the fish and even death.
 
Know your carp diet
 
Knowing what to feed carp with as an angler is a hugh advantage you are able to match your bait to the time of the year you are fishing. A good guide that I use is easily digested food in the winter which is low in fat and protein as it takes longer to digest and the carp are less likely to take it. In summer high fat and protein baits as they are easier to be digested and they carp are more likely to take this type of food type in the winter as it can break down the food and use it effectively. Again like I have said before think abit about our quarry and match your angling and you will be surprised with the effects.
 
I hope some of this helps gives you an understanding of the basics of carp dietary requirements. I have started work on Carp Biology Part 3. This will cover carp behaviour and how they interact with there surrounds including factors like pressure, wind direction and water temperature.

Like your thinking
 
Suppose the fish are feeding on a bed of particles, and you put a pop-up out there. The pop-up level may actually be above the fishes feeding, and so ignored. The fish feeding in the silt, noses in, pop-up is above the carps feeding level, and again, ignored
 
Or a pop-up at 2cms off the lakebed, a big fish approaching from above might not even recognise that the bait is off the bottom.
 
My view with pop-ups, you need to know what type of silt, or lakebed you are fishing over, and to some extent, the depth of the silt.
 
No point fishing a pop-up with the weight 2cms under the hook if the silt is 3cms deep, and smelly, thick and black. You need the pop-up to be above the silt and bottom debris.
 
Also no good fishing a pop-up above the level the fish are feeding at.

Keep things as simple as possible, why confuse yourself?
 
A plain basic rig, short hair, with the pop up tight to the hook shank, either knotless knotted or line aligned will work. If you make it from coated braid, and strip a section back the putty can be attached to the end of the strip, if you use plain braid, then a small power gum stop knot will hold the putty

 
Or go to a D rig, both simple, the D being slightly harder to tie

 
Or you can use pole anglers olivettes as your counterweight.
 
This one, straight off my rods ages ago has some wire wrapped around it, just to make sure the hooklink doesn't loop up.
 
If you do decide to go to that horrible 'chod rig', then remember that the lead can be well into the weed, while the hookbait is well outside it. Also it can give funny bites in weedy areas, possible hook pulls and occasional line breaks if naked

Not that I'm looking to open a can of worms, but there are two schools of thought right? 1) A pop-up might sometimes look unusual and out of place amongst other things on the deck, 2) Fish, particularly larger fish can't necessarily distinguish something as being 'off of the deck' thus it doesn't do any harm (in fact might help if targeting bigger fish)?
 
Discuss...     

Keep things as simple as possible, why confuse yourself?
 
A plain basic rig, short hair, with the pop up tight to the hook shank, either knotless knotted or line aligned will work. If you make it from coated braid, and strip a section back the putty can be attached to the end of the strip, if you use plain braid, then a small power gum stop knot will hold the putty

 
Or go to a D rig, both simple, the D being slightly harder to tie

 
Or you can use pole anglers olivettes as your counterweight.
 
This one, straight off my rods ages ago has some wire wrapped around it, just to make sure the hooklink doesn't loop up.
 
If you do decide to go to that horrible 'chod rig', then remember that the lead can be well into the weed, while the hookbait is well outside it. Also it can give funny bites in weedy areas, possible hook pulls and occasional line breaks if naked

A lot of venues (mostly lakes) ban pike fishing between March and October with live or dead baiting, but you can lure fish.
The reasoning behind this is that pike can suffer from low oxygen levels after a prolonged fight, and the stress can cause them to belly up and die.
 
Rivers the pike tend to be returned into higher oxygenated water, due to the flow.
 
Personally I save my piking from September onwards, unless I grab a lure session, which is not often. I do occasionally hook pike accidentally in the summer, usually when after perch where I may have been using a small livie for perch, or occasionally one snaffles a boilie or slug or a fish I'm retrieving.
 
On returning I am as careful as I can possibly be, holding onto the fish until it has recovered properly and swims away of its own accord.

Not trying to start an argument here , and CM you quite rightly use your tubing for safety reasons with braid mate , but i'd just like to state that , when using mainline straight through , i've never ever lifted a scale on a fish of any species .
 
Anti-tangle tubing is/was invented for that reason , so anyone who is getting sucked in by Carp mags .
Think again

The way your fishing is fine Chris , mainline is the best camouflage you can get .
 
Unless your fishing over sharp stones , mussel beds or gravel bars why show the fish where your rig is

Bottom bait on a Chod rig?
 
Ha ha yes, I have to describe it that way as everyone these days knows what a Chod rig is. What I was describing used to be called a helicopter rig of course.
Ideal for the situation that the OP described especially at distance, but a more natural presentation than a 2" popup like the traditional Chod. And different to what most if not all others on the lake will be fishing. Even if you're being watched closely because you are catching, no one will know that you are fishing a bottom bait... 
 
Bream? Slimy 'orrible things... Never had my longed for double out of Horseshoe despite trying at least once every season.
What are we talking "Specimen sized" here then?

Or try a lead link, basically a paternoster set-up where the lead is going to sink into the silt, but the hooklink with a light balanced bait is going to sit up.
 
You can fish this with your choice of hooklink, mono, fluoro, braid, coated or uncoated, whichever you prefer.
 
I would recommend a bottom bait that almost floats, I.e drilled out and foamed up in the hole, or even a wafter that only just sinks.
 
The same lead set up works very well in weed
 
You may want to play around with the hooklink and lead link length to get it right for your water. 
Also, it may be that the carp feed in the silt, not on it, you may need to find a way to get the hookbait at the level they feed at...
 
Oh, and a quick edit, you may find a simple run ring works as well, and you wouldn't need to use the stop knot shown as per Del Ritchies original pic.

Or try a lead link, basically a paternoster set-up where the lead is going to sink into the silt, but the hooklink with a light balanced bait is going to sit up.
 
You can fish this with your choice of hooklink, mono, fluoro, braid, coated or uncoated, whichever you prefer.
 
I would recommend a bottom bait that almost floats, I.e drilled out and foamed up in the hole, or even a wafter that only just sinks.
 
The same lead set up works very well in weed
 
You may want to play around with the hooklink and lead link length to get it right for your water. 
Also, it may be that the carp feed in the silt, not on it, you may need to find a way to get the hookbait at the level they feed at...
 
Oh, and a quick edit, you may find a simple run ring works as well, and you wouldn't need to use the stop knot shown as per Del Ritchies original pic.

If you don't mind travelling, then Festival fishery in Sommerset is well worth a look http://www.festivalcarpfishery.co.uk/lake.html
A well thought out and run lake, where all the swims are located on two large islands, meaning the longest chuck from any of the swim is no more than 50/60 yards and each of the 8 swims has more than enough water. It's not a runs water by any means but not hard either, with some real stunning looking scaley mirrors. There is showers on site and all the bailiffing staff are spot on.
As I say a bit of travelling involved by well worth it in my opinion.

Follow nicks advice, but I can say heartsmere at waveney valley is nice, only has 5 swims so a few of you can get the whole lake, and there is good facilities there. The fish can be cagey so must be super quiet and set up back from the bank. If you are uber quiet they can be caught on hemp and sweetcorn close in. Or either as tight as you can get to the far bank, or 6 foot off the overhanging trees. Let us know where you end up!

Norfolk Suffolk area, I would say Suffolk Water Park, but getting onto fish can be very frustrating, as people move very quickly onto them, or be lodged in the swim you want for days. Also, I believe the shower at the cafe is currently unavailable as it is being refurbished. However, if you get it right, and get lucky then you could have a few fish, they go high 30's, or 40 if you have JS scales...
 
 
Other waters, Waveney Valley, Heartsmere, Yew Tree, Marsh, on the Two counties border. Just Google Waveney Valley and you will get the details and web page appear. Some nice fish, some good facilities etc.
 
Taverham Mills up near Norwich, again has a website, but I know the phone number is 01603 861014. Fish do go to 30+. If you have a look through Norfolk waters I know there is a very very detailed breakdown of the lake, complete with some of the features to aim for! I wrote it after fishing there from 1992 until 2002
 
Camelot, another water in the same area as Waveney Valley, or Burgh Castle near Great Yarmouth. These last two I haven't fished however so can't give any more on them.
 
An alternative is Lee Valley Fisheries, look at either Banjo Lake, or Stock pit
https://www.visitleevalley.org.uk/go/fisheries/
 
Not too far to go, and you may find these peepul can un'stand wot you talkin'bout.

Glad I brought someone back to the forum, and thanks for the suggestion. Looks like a nice place! I'm in Essex so Norfolk Suffolk border would be an early start but do able.

Wild carp are always female and often pre-menstrual................
 
Ian
 

the pop up will lift the hook  clear of any debris. stiff materials i find hard to get short, so if i wanted to have the pop up low to the deck i'd used coated braid,so the stripped hinge was closer the the eye. this is a good rig for pop ups when you want it to look more like a freebie and less blatant.

I have never had a problem with steaming the hook link, once the kettle is boiling properly it will only take a few seconds to fully shrink the tubing down so shouldn't damage the line.
 
I also like to steam in a kicker by leaving about 1cm of tubing past the eye of the hook and whilst steaming hold the hooklength at an angle which will hold once the tubing cools. This can really help with barbless rigs.

Would you like an honest answer? 
There are better fisheries about, and of the disabled access, I think it could do with improving.
You would probably do a whole lot better at Suffolk Water Park for the same sort of money. The best lake at Hintlesham for fishing has the worst disabled access.

@Ross Sorry it wasn't directed purely at Nick its just he seems to have a good idea when it comes to items like this, I always read what anyone puts right or wrong, some of the info you get here you could never acquire from reading the mags. 

The fluoro's I've used are Gardner (mainline) and Sufix. Had a large stock of each as they keep better than mono's.
 
Strangely enough for combi rigs I have switched back to Amnesia as I don't think laying on the lakebed a fluoro does make that much difference anyway, being on the lakebed, mixed in the bottom detritus; and as for fluorocarbon being invisible as a mainline, it shows up pretty well, as most get covered in plankton and particles rendering the index of being in water irrelevant in most cases, plus the lack of casting ability with it...

I like that Phil . Doesnt anybody use a simple old fashioned D Rig these days ? 
I wouldn't think twice about using it over a choddy lakebed paticuarly in the margins but everybody seems adamant that they would only use fluorocarbons on hard clear bottoms ????

Brilliant for fishing over a bit of chod.  Amnesia combi's have been a fave of mine too.
 
I tend to fish fluoro in long lengths, like 18" plus with small D sections.

Would depend how hard the crust is on the top of the silt, if the water is clearish and you see the spot try dropping a lead on it and seeing how far it plugs in which be my major concern about using a fluro rig in this situation, if the lead plugs into the silt on cast then you are going to be left with a section of the hooklink sticking straight out where the lead has plugged in, personally i would probably use a supernova braided hooklink in this situtation 
 
Bait wise a slow sinker/wafter or a snowman should just sit nicely on top of the silt