360 an alternative to spinner rig?

[salokcinnodrog]

On 04/04/2024 at 12:49, elmoputney said:

I like a spinner rig, if they were banned I would probably go Julian cundiff themed multi rig but I would be somewhat disgruntled because spinners work a treat for me if it ain't broke. 

 

On 04/04/2024 at 15:29, framey said:

Could …

Do away with the swivel section 

put the line through the hook and tie it off with the loop

cut Down the tail rubber so it leaves the eye exposed for the free movement 👍
 

Won’t be full 360 but hey ho 

 

or just use 360 rig

 

On 04/04/2024 at 15:30, kevtaylor said:

Whilst I cant deny it's a great rig, all that extra metalwork and sleeve put me right off, My multi uses none of it, just a hook screw and putty and stripped braid turns as good as any swivel for the joint part IMO.  I've taken to using 25lb stiff material for the hook loop keeps the hook in place and as doubled over acts like a hook extension.  You've also got to consider the ptfe coated swivels coz normal ones rust and dont turn great after a while.  The mechanics and shape of the rig are exactly the same, but if anything you can get a multi even lower.

 

I must admit to going back to the 360 rig this week on 1 rod, the middle one, and that was the rod that went off with a fish. It may have been how I was fishing, over maize and the lead and rig in a bag with a few whole boilies and pellets.

I do like the Multi-rig and my bog standard pop-up rig with the olivette as the counter or balance weight, and catch fish on them, but at the moment I am fishing mostly pop-ups. 

Notes with the 360 rig, make sure before you lift the net up that the fish is right at the bottom of the net. I have a micro mesh base in my landing net, so the eye doesn't catch but in a larger mesh the eye of the hook may need covering.

 

My version in the picture is with a size 4 Gardner Incizor, a small sinker on the braid hooklink. The dental floss is where I had attached a 15mm Nutty Bait pop-up. I also use a run ring for the lead, which was a 2½oz dumpy, although the wind meant I had to fish a tight line.

I got a couple of bleeps and a couple of minutes later it just went off. The fish was hooked just to the left of centre in the bottom lip.

 

[elmoputney]

Well done on catching this week, can't help but think that rig looks  like it is going to sit weirdly with the point pointing up in the air, might just be the photo but everytime I look at it I can't see how it is going to sit nicely with a bait on. 

[elmoputney]

This is my alternative spinner rig 👍

[emmcee]

The 360 rig was my go to pop up rig for a long while, I used it with the long shank nailer hook pattern. Had stacks of fish on it and hand on heart I can honestly say I never had a fish with mouth damage and yet a couple of the lakes I fished at the time banned the rig. 

[salokcinnodrog]

3 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Well done on catching this week, can't help but think that rig looks  like it is going to sit weirdly with the point pointing up in the air, might just be the photo but everytime I look at it I can't see how it is going to sit nicely with a bait on. 

The bait is on a sliding ring so can slide up and down the shank. It is stopped by a stop opposite the barb so the hook sits up as the pop-up lifts it upright.

Don't forget it is sat on my hand, not in the water. The Nutty Bait natural colour pop-up is very buoyant, although I can't use a natural colour Monster Crab pop-up as it is too buoyant. As it 'stands' it sits perfectly.

20 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

The dental floss is where I had attached a 15mm Nutty Bait pop-up

I just pulled the hookbait off the floss at the end of the session, so it makes it look funny with the floss still on.

 

2 hours ago, emmcee said:

The 360 rig was my go to pop up rig for a long while, I used it with the long shank nailer hook pattern. Had stacks of fish on it and hand on heart I can honestly say I never had a fish with mouth damage and yet a couple of the lakes I fished at the time banned the rig. 

I'm like you, never had any mouth damage, and I think bans occurred because anglers didn't make sure the carp was in the bottom of the net before lifting. (Having seen some ITV4 Korda sponsored shows where the net is lifted by the handle when the carp is only just in the net, anglers copy)...

Our rules are self enforced, and the only rules are no tiger nuts, peanuts or fake baits. Almost every fish goes up on the syndicate Facebook page, exception being a couple of anglers who don't do social media.

3 hours ago, elmoputney said:

This is my alternative spinner rig 👍

I've tried the Spinner and Ronnie rig, and just have not had the same positive hook-ups as the 360 rig. I don't think that it is fish/rig related as unless every stock fish is super wary already, (they are already putting on a lot of weight on naturals), but the lakebed itself. 

 

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, salokcinnodrog said:

The bait is on a sliding ring so can slide up and down the shank. It is stopped by a stop opposite the barb so the hook sits up as the pop-up lifts it upright.

Don't forget it is sat on my hand, not in the water. The Nutty Bait natural colour pop-up is very buoyant, although I can't use a natural colour Monster Crab pop-up as it is too buoyant. As it 'stands' it sits perfectly.

I just pulled the hookbait off the floss at the end of the session, so it makes it look funny with the floss still on.

 

I'm like you, never had any mouth damage, and I think bans occurred because anglers didn't make sure the carp was in the bottom of the net before lifting. (Having seen some ITV4 Korda sponsored shows where the net is lifted by the handle when the carp is only just in the net, anglers copy)...

Our rules are self enforced, and the only rules are no tiger nuts, peanuts or fake baits. Almost every fish goes up on the syndicate Facebook page, exception being a couple of anglers who don't do social media.

I've tried the Spinner and Ronnie rig, and just have not had the same positive hook-ups as the 360 rig. I don't think that it is fish/rig related as unless every stock fish is super wary already, (they are already putting on a lot of weight on naturals), but the lakebed itself. 

 

Yeah I know but it just looks like the hook pattern wouldn't sit right, I'm sure you wouldn't use it if it didn't but in your hand it looks odd lol. I could see something like a longshank nailor/trig hammer or mugga, would probably work well as it's curved and bent the right way but your pic makes it look like it will lean backwards. 

As for the spinner and hook ups the D rig kicker makes a world of difference to the hook to land ratio, it's not the same as a spinner, the separation makes for a much better hookhold in my opinion. 

 

[elmoputney]

In my head you need a really curved hook this is a BCR Rigga and they come much more curved than that. 

[kevtaylor]

2 hours ago, elmoputney said:

In my head you need a really curved hook this is a BCR Rigga and they come much more curved than that. 

It does look good with a curved hook IMO, very much like a shorter version of the Long Shank Nailer as mentioned by Emmcee above. 👍

[elmoputney]

6 minutes ago, kevtaylor said:

It does look good with a curved hook IMO, very much like a shorter version of the Long Shank Nailer as mentioned by Emmcee above. 👍

Yeah I could see that flipping well and being tricky to deal with. 

[salokcinnodrog]

13 hours ago, elmoputney said:

As for the spinner and hook ups the D rig kicker makes a world of difference to the hook to land ratio, it's not the same as a spinner, the separation makes for a much better hookhold in my opinion. 

 

 

12 hours ago, elmoputney said:

In my head you need a really curved hook this is a BCR Rigga and they come much more curved than that. 

 

10 hours ago, kevtaylor said:

It does look good with a curved hook IMO, very much like a shorter version of the Long Shank Nailer as mentioned by Emmcee above. 👍

 

10 hours ago, elmoputney said:

Yeah I could see that flipping well and being tricky to deal with. 

In Tim Paisley's More From The Bivvy is a short piece on the 360 rig and his preferred pattern. I have a feeling Dave Lane was using JRC Connect hooks when he passed it on to him. I don't like the curved hook with it, as I have the mini swivel eye on the lakebed. The Incizor is a big hook with a fairly wide gape, and is heavy. The hook is equal and balances the the pop-up, so no additional putty needed.

I do know it didn't work so well with a Solar 101!

 

19 hours ago, elmoputney said:

This is my alternative spinner rig 👍

I wonder if my version didn't work because it is presenting the bait above the fish feeding on the lakebed. I know it's only a tiny difference in height above the lakebed, but would be above the background maize I caught over.

[elmoputney]

Dave lane is now using Gardner CVR Like above. That was his Gardner phase version of the rig. 

2 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

 

 

 

In Tim Paisley's More From The Bivvy is a short piece on the 360 rig and his preferred pattern. I have a feeling Dave Lane was using JRC Connect hooks when he passed it on to him. I don't like the curved hook with it, as I have the mini swivel eye on the lakebed. The Incizor is a big hook with a fairly wide gape, and is heavy. The hook is equal and balances the the pop-up, so no additional putty needed.

I do know it didn't work so well with a Solar 101!

 

I wonder if my version didn't work because it is presenting the bait above the fish feeding on the lakebed. I know it's only a tiny difference in height above the lakebed, but would be above the background maize I caught over.

I nearly always use a pop up regardless of what I am fishing over tbh, sometimes a wafter if its really firm and clean, but I never worry too much, I think they often either avoid the pop up or make a beeline straight for it. 

[salokcinnodrog]

1 hour ago, elmoputney said:

Dave lane is now using Gardner CVR Like above. That was his Gardner phase version of the rig. 

I nearly always use a pop up regardless of what I am fishing over tbh, sometimes a wafter if its really firm and clean, but I never worry too much, I think they often either avoid the pop up or make a beeline straight for it. 

I'm positive we often overthink what we do, although I really try not to, preferring to spend time watching the fish if possible.

At Taverham Mills I used to spend a lot of time up trees watching the fish over baited areas. There were times when the carp definitely avoided pop-ups, and I am positive after going out to my baited areas that the fish have twigged my pop-up, yet a switch to a lower sitting or even bottom or snowman bait later catches on the same spot. 

It's on hard bottoms, gravel and sand I really don't like using pop-ups, that's where I have seen fish avoiding them like the plague when there is plenty of bait out there.

[elmoputney]

3 hours ago, salokcinnodrog said:

I'm positive we often overthink what we do, although I really try not to, preferring to spend time watching the fish if possible.

At Taverham Mills I used to spend a lot of time up trees watching the fish over baited areas. There were times when the carp definitely avoided pop-ups, and I am positive after going out to my baited areas that the fish have twigged my pop-up, yet a switch to a lower sitting or even bottom or snowman bait later catches on the same spot. 

It's on hard bottoms, gravel and sand I really don't like using pop-ups, that's where I have seen fish avoiding them like the plague when there is plenty of bait out there.

That's kind of why I only use one rig these days, every now and again it might need a tweek, I'm currently looking at a beefed up version for snag fishing, but that's pretty much a change of boom material. And so far from the coated ones I have the bank tackle or PB jelly wire seems the strongest 😱 korda ones broke way too easily on a puller test. I will give them a whirl next time and see how they cope,