PVA Breakdown Rates

[Golden Paws]

For the last couple of seasons, I've put a small PVA mesh bag of powder on my hook before every cast. (Currently a mixture of CreAmino Bag and Stick Mix as I'm using the boilies and Sonubaits Krill Groundbait and also their Explosive Fishmeal Groundbait Mix.) Most of my fishing is done by dropping from a bait boat or on my local water, fishing in the margins. I make up about 30 bags at home and store them in an old ice cream tub to speed things up on the bank and to stop wet hands making holes in it.

I was watching a video on YouTube the other day and there was a bag that was absolutely fizzing. To replicate it, I added a bit of baking powder to my mix and dropped a bag of with and without  in a tub of water to see the difference. The baking powder bag definitely gave off a stream of bubbles but the most interesting part was just how long it took for the bags to breakdown, both at least 5 minutes. I made the bags up fresh so there was no oil rendering the PVA impervious to the water.  A piece of the mesh only shrivelled up within seconds.

I've always side hooked the bags and was confident I would be fishing within 30 seconds, not I'm not so sure. I always laughed at people who double bagged "because they were fishing in 10 foot of water", they could be delaying their next bite by half an hour!

I prided myself that I could tie the 2 knots so close together, I could only just get the scissors through .(I know, tight!) Since watching the bags, I've include a "fuse" of about an inch and hook this on as I'm convinced it will be fishing properly within seconds. (Long enough to hit the bottom.)

In the photo, the Baking Powder bag is on the right which is why it is a bit lighter.

[Golden Paws]

Had to do another post due to file size. The bag on the left is the side hooked version and the "fuse" on the right. Obviously the fuse wouldn't be any good for long casting.

[jules007]

Interesting post, have to say last week i wound in to cast to a showing fish, nicked on a mesh bag of pellets and boilies but "old clumsy" here dunked it before lining up the cast, whipped it out double quick expecting my wife to be showered in salmon pellets but it made it on target, no fish though

[salokcinnodrog]

I used to test and time my PVA bags, string and mesh so I had an idea of breakdown time of various brands in the water winter and summer.

The bags I use now are either Rod Hutchinson or Alacarp, run by Dave Goring on my syndicate.

I just hand him a £10 note and he fills my hand with packs of PVA bags. Both brands break down within a couple of minutes.

I know one thing, 15years ago, Nash PVA bags used to be awful, with a breakdown time of over an hour in the side pocket of a pair of combat trousers that have gone through a 60⁰ wash

The outer plastic bag was unsealed, and the bags themselves were still complete despite the bag being full of water.

 

Knots do take longer to break down than the rest of the PVA

[elmoputney]

I was having a play in the shallows this weekend as one of my rigs came in with pva blob still attached,(mesh stick) the actual mesh broke down pretty quickly but the knots stayed intact for a long while. 

I wonder if it is because you are using powders, because it is packed it might not be that soluble thus delaying the breakdown. Maybe try just some pellets or boilies or something that leaves gaps and see if that makes a difference against your bags. 

[Golden Paws]

That's a point Elmo. I use 2 teaspoons of powder and really whack the plunger on the stick down hard a couple of times so that the powder comes out of the tube as a solid lump, which makes tying it off easier. I used powders only as I wanted there to be plenty of smell and attraction in the area but no food, except my boilie. I will add some small pellets to see if that helps.

[framey]

Depending on what you are using for the mix 

you could buy a carp tart bagless wonder for sticks.

great little device that means you don’t need pva.

i usually grind down 3 or 4 boilies 

whack it in the wonder and thread it on the hook length. 
the harder you compress it the longer it takes to break down 

[elmoputney]

1 hour ago, Golden Paws said:

That's a point Elmo. I use 2 teaspoons of powder and really whack the plunger on the stick down hard a couple of times so that the powder comes out of the tube as a solid lump, which makes tying it off easier. I used powders only as I wanted there to be plenty of smell and attraction in the area but no food, except my boilie. I will add some small pellets to see if that helps.

The powders will still seal any gaps made by the pellet I think, what I meant was try a mesh bag just with pellet and see if it breaks down quicker than the one with powders in 

1 hour ago, framey said:

Depending on what you are using for the mix 

you could buy a carp tart bagless wonder for sticks.

great little device that means you don’t need pva.

i usually grind down 3 or 4 boilies 

whack it in the wonder and thread it on the hook length. 
the harder you compress it the longer it takes to break down 

That would solve the issue of non melting pva, it makes me think I really should just try the method feeder again. I put one in my bag the other week after we spoke about it I had two buckets  yesterday that I could have wrapped round a method too, next time I will do it 😳

[Golden Paws]

Took Elmo's advice and added some 2mm pellets to my mix and compared it against the powder only and it wasn't conclusive and they still take an age to break apart. I added some 6 and 8mm pellets and that didn't really improve matters. That said, the Baking Powder was doing a really good job and the water in my tub was very murky that was making it difficult to see the bottom.

Several years ago I used to barbel fish a brilliant swim. There was a gravel hump about 15 foot from the bank and you could wade it with wellies. Just below the hump, the river shelved off steeply to form a hole. I used to stand on the hump and fish with the rod pointing directly downstream. If things were quiet, I would stub my toe into the gravel so it kicked off a stream of silt. The amount of times I had a bite shortly after couldn't have been a co-incidence and I caught many doubles to over 12lb.

Sometimes it's just doing something different to the crowds that brings results. 

[framey]

1 hour ago, elmoputney said:

The powders will still seal any gaps made by the pellet I think, what I meant was try a mesh bag just with pellet and see if it breaks down quicker than the one with powders in 

That would solve the issue of non melting pva, it makes me think I really should just try the method feeder again. I put one in my bag the other week after we spoke about it I had two buckets  yesterday that I could have wrapped round a method too, next time I will do it 😳

The method is such an underused tactic for bigger carp 

the match men use it and I struggle to see why more of us don’t.

always had a couple and a mould in the bag with me 

[salokcinnodrog]

3 hours ago, framey said:

The method is such an underused tactic for bigger carp 

the match men use it and I struggle to see why more of us don’t.

always had a couple and a mould in the bag with me 

I never used PVA on Ardleigh or on Suffolk water Park.

Moulded Vitalin and particle mix around the lead and the hookbait was pushed into the bottom of the ball.

 

[barry211]

i have to admit i am a big fan of using a method feeder but then again i came to carp fishing from a course background so was comfortable with it. i have used pva quite a bit as i really like spending the time making bags or sticks whilst watching my rods and never really had many problems but then again i started only using rod hutchinson bags as they worked better but mesh wise i tend to pick up whats on offer at the tackle shop.

occasionally and i mean occasionally i do see the odd bag floating away after casting but they never drift far so i reel in and go again targetting that spot where it sunk